The Crannogmen Crackpots

[Syri0_F0rel]

Good call on the Mormont women using weapons. I was thinking of characters in the books using them and completely forgot about their history and the woman on their gate. We could add non-northerner Brienne as another girl practiced with weapons. Euron and Roose are very mysterious. Roose burning the half-read book in Harrenhall still boggles my mind. It is hard not to think of Vampires and Werewolves when thinking of the Boltons and Starks.

[roxWolfox]

I know what you mean about Roose! Ew. I'm very anti-vampire (and yes, that includes Angel). ^^

My fave 'creature features' always have a werewolf in there somewhere, so I was always going to be a Stark fan, right from the get-go. :cool4:

I only got the idea of Roose being a Night's King decendant from this group of theories: http://branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Contents.html

A very entertaining (if long) read.

[JD Martell]

Well, if we really want to delve into the realm of the Crackpot ... lets look at twins in ASOIAF:

Jamie and Cersei are twins, and a lot of people think they are secret Targs (I kinda want them to be - I would find it amusing).

Prince Rhaegal had twin sons who were passed over for succession after the death of Aerys I.

*adjusts tinfoil hat* So we know that there is at least one known case of Targ twinning, and one known case of "these twins might be Targ twins. Maybe, if you squint funny." Logically, we must then assume that Jon and Meera must be secret Targ twins! :wacko:

(Seriously though, I do like the original theory - its fun!)

[roxWolfox]

I find most of the theories on this site entertaining, which is why I always come back no matter how repetitious the postings can be (I mean, how many times can a 'Stannis hate or love' thread pop up in one day! Pfft), but even if I don't agree/like a theory, I do enjoy the follow-up comments enough to read them through and think about events past or present through another interpretation not my own.

:cheers: to more threads such as this one. :D

[Syri0_F0rel]

Cheers :cheers:

[Khal Shaggydog]

Great post OP, and Im amazed at how much time and attention and text quotes you inserted. Hopefully, you were getting paid by someone else while composing that.

I highly doubt the Meera being a Targ/Stark, but that is mostly based on her size, and the fact that she really doenst show any Targ features beyond possibly having an eye color that is not brown or grey. Again, trying to disprove a theory on genetics alone doesn't do much in a fantasy world, because even Jon snow appears more Stark than Targ, so there may be a dominance of First Man blood over Targ blood that we haven't had enough sample size to confirm.

I don't think the relative closeness of Meera and Jon growing up is any reason to disprove the theory either - i think that part works in favor of the twin theory. GW and Winterfell are not terribly close, but more importantly, GW is impossible to find, and guarded by poison wielding guerrilla warriors. Most importantly, GW is ruled by the one person Ned Stark has COMPLETE trust in - and specifically for his presence at the TOJ. Also, it is a bit curious that Ned hardly saw Howland Reed in all the years since RR, and apparently the last time was during the Greyjoy rebellion in which Ned had to basically travel through the Neck. If they were so close, why didn't Howland come to Winterfell before, and why hadnt he brought his children - unless he was actually trying to keep them away from each other while they grew to adulthood.

All in all - the theory is pretty far out there, but given how little we know of the Reeds and the whole Lyanna mystery, it can't be ruled out.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

I don't buy either claim. Here's the simplest reasons why -

On Meera being Jon's twin - Meera has the classic crannogman stature. It is a genetic trait that is not present in Targs or Starks. (Getting larger or smaller within limits is easy to do from an evolution standpoint. The 3000-4000 years the crannogmen have spent in the Neck on a limited diet, combined with an isolated gene pool, could accomplish it.)

On Jojen being Howland - They have different physical characteristics, particularly pertaining to physical health. Howland was a healthy, robust individual who paddled a small boat down and up the Green Fork, and survived a military campaign. Jojen runs out of breath climbing hills.

[Syri0_F0rel]

On Jojen being Howland - They have different physical characteristics, particularly pertaining to physical health. Howland was a healthy, robust individual who paddled a small boat down and up the Green Fork, and survived a military campaign. Jojen runs out of breath climbing hills.

There were 20 years and a war between the Tourney at Harrenhal and present time. I would not expect a person to be in the same shape they were in 20 years earlier. Look at what 20 years did to Robert Baratheon.

There is evidence against both theories, I listed examples from the text in the original post. When I consider future possibilities for the story I typically do not assume the crannogmen crackpots as realities.

[setmyheartafire]

Have you read the reddit thread about Howland being the High Septon? That's a good crannogman crackpot also. Not that it's concerned with the twins idea, but still, good crannogman crackpot.

[roxWolfox]

Have you read the reddit thread about Howland being the High Septon? That's a good crannogman crackpot also. Not that it's concerned with the twins idea, but still, good crannogman crackpot.

Thanks for the link! :cheers:

That was a fun read. I love the idea of good 'ol Howie converting his religion just to avenge the Ned. xD

Would be the best revenge ever!

[setmyheartafire]

Thanks for the link! :cheers:

That was a fun read. I love the idea of good 'ol Howie converting his religion just to avenge the Ned. xD

Would be the best revenge ever!

You're welcome. I stumbled on it from a Jon has a twin thread over there very recently and thought of this thread back here. Figured it was food for thought regarding Jojen/Howland.

I do think Jojen seems wise beyond his years and wouldn't be surprised if he were really Howland.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he were the HS.

There's just something mystical about those crannogmen...