jet199 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Seriously? No doubt Cersei was like "Omg, he's passionately kissing me and taking my clothes off. I better pretend to be really turned on now and get this rape over with."That is what she did with Robert and most people think that was rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 That is what she did with Robert and most people think that was rape. She did the opposite actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I always figured that she said it was folly for the same reason she said later that Jaime's wild plans of getting married openly, Targaryen-style, was stupid and crazy. Because it is. Because being caught and revealed as incestuous couple would wreck their House, their throne, their lives, etc; not because she just didn't want to have sex with him. Jaime hasn't said that part yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Well, if it is rape, she doesn't seem to see it that way in her POVs. She never seems to view him as someone who is or who has ever assaulted her, the way she saw Robert. The concept of rape isn't exactly alien to her either - she's not quite like the Craster daughters in that regard. If she really wanted to shut him down, she could have said something along the lines of how she didn't want a one-handed gimp who let his son and his father die inside her. She has quite the venomous wit when she chooses, and she knows the kinds of words that could just wreck Jaime, but instead she just went on about how naughty it was to do it in the Sept, like that would really stop him (or her for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 She did the opposite actually. She wondered what it would feel like to suckle on those breasts, to lay the Myrish woman on her back and push her legs apart and use her as a man would use her, the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth. Are you arguing it she really wanted to give those blowjobs and handjobs? Or did she do it because she was trying to get Robert to ejaculate and move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Are you arguing it she really wanted to give those blowjobs and handjobs? Or did she do it because she was trying to get Robert to ejaculate and move on? I'm arguing that she never (or almost never) enthusiastically had sex with Robert, like she did in with Jaime in the Sept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No. Cersei protests in the same exact way even she's fully naked in the tower with Jaime at Winterfell. Maybe that's their "thing". No she doesn't. She's fully willing to do it then. It's Jaime who doesn't want to have sex then. Cersei then throws in his face that they had sex in the sept against her wishes (ie rape). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm arguing that she never (or almost never) enthusiastically had sex with Robert, like she did in with Jaime in the Sept. That doesn't answer the question of why she was giving Robert handjobs and blowjobs, instead of letting him do this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Cersei then throws in his face that they had sex in the sept against her wishes (ie rape). “This was folly.” Cersei pulled her gown straight. Ah yes. It is all so clear now. She's not just not saying that their succumbing to their passions with stupid. There is this massive hidden meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 “This was folly.” Cersei pulled her gown straight. Ah yes. It is all so clear now. She's not just not saying that their succumbing to their passions with stupid. There is this massive hidden meaning. You're in the wrong scene there. That happens in the Sept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 That doesn't answer the question of why she was giving Robert handjobs and blowjobs, instead of letting him do this thing. Not sure where you're going with this. She went out of her way to avoid having sex with Robert. The text specifically says (in her perspective) that she never even got turned on. It is a massive contrast to this scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You're in the wrong scene there. That happens in the Sept. Ok. You'll have to provide the quote then. I'm sure, of course, that it will not include Cersei in any way accusing Jaime of rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You can't rape the willing, no matter how hard you try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Not sure where you're going with this. She expedited Robert's ejaculation to get it over with, even though she had no interest in having sex with him. She was deprived of the option of sex not occuring, so her only option left was to get the sex over with quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 This thread is funny.Now the Jaime haters have found another excuse to hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Ask yourself this... Read the early part of that scene. Was there any realistic way for Cersei to get out of there without having sex? Jaime was already all over her and wasn't taking no for an answer. Pretty much. Her only option was to minimise the risk of getting caught and the pain by hurrying things along. It's a real fucked up situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No she doesn't. She's fully willing to do it then. It's Jaime who doesn't want to have sex then. Cersei then throws in his face that they had sex in the sept against her wishes (ie rape). You're talking about the time they were in Lord Commander's chamber in AFFC. I'm talking about AGOT when Bran catches them at it: The man had a hand down between her legs, and he must have been hurting her there, because the woman started to moan, low in her throat. "Stop it," she said, "stop it, stop it. Oh, please . . . " But her voice was low and weak, and she did not push him away. Her hands buried themselves in his hair, his tangled golden hair, and pulled his face down to her breast. :dunno: Pretty much. Her only option was to minimise the risk of getting caught and the pain by hurrying things along. It's a real fucked up situation. She could have done a billion other things. She could have pushed him off and left the room. She's a fighter. And if you've just been raped, you don't get up and immediately start scheming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 She was deprived of the option of sex not occuring, so her only option left was to get the sex over with quickly. Um, no. What happens REALLY is the following:Jaime is really turned on by Cersei. He passionately kisses her.She softly says "no", but moans because she herself is turned on.He persists. She weakly gives arguments why having sex is a bad idea. <- This is the part of the argument, if anything, you should be focusing on.She gets really turned on and passionately takes him. <- This, clearly stated in the text, is what you appear to be challenging by.. well.. basically by making up a psychological state for her. They have sex.She's mad that she gave into her passions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Um, no. What happens REALLY is the following:Jaime is really turned on by Cersei. He passionately kisses her.She softly says "no", but moans because she herself is turned on.He persists. She weakly gives arguments why having sex is a bad idea. <- This is the part of the argument, if anything, you should be focusing on.She gets really turned on and passionately takes him. <- This, clearly stated in the text, is what you appear to be challenging by.. well.. basically by making up a psychological state for her. They have sex.She's mad that she gave into her passions. Don't bother explaining.What happened in the sept was obviously not rape. But the haters will call it rape for the sake of calling it rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime FTW Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 show is ruining Jaime. don't watch that shit anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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