Arya is NOT a sociopath

[Metopheles]

What readers and Arya all miss, is the point that she became exactly the people she hated so much. She hates cold killers. She hates the Hound and Ilyn. Now she is exactly like them

[Darksnider05]

What readers and Arya all miss, is the point that she became exactly the people she hated so much. She hates cold killers. She hates the Hound and Ilyn. Now she is exactly like them

I thought she hated those people for personal reasons not moral reasons.

[ARYa_Nym]

Again, thinking that she is mad or insane does not make the argument for the subject at hand because people with ASPD aren't insane. It's a personality disorder and thus harder to treat. The psychotics are the ones who need meds but there are no meds to treat psychopathy.

They aren't delusional and they don't have a loss of a sense of reality. The only argument for delusion is their extreme narcissism but it's not similar to the delusion a clinically insane person has like a schizophrenic as an example.

I thought she hated those people for personal reasons not moral reasons.

Yeah, I think there's a misconception that she hates killers.

She knows the prostitute S'vrone keeps murdering her clients. She never goes after her or puts her on her list. She hangs out with a former notorious pirate who tells her of his heyday. You just know he's murdered people in his lifetime. She hangs out with rogues and wharfside scum and she misses them. She knows Jaqen is a murderer but at one point wished she had left with him.

The only ones she may literally hate are rapists but even there....

Bobono molests her but she still misses him. If Tyrion ever meets her he clearly won't be killed by her and will still live.

[ARYa_Nym]

Arya kills people she has no relation to. She will sooner or later kill them for money.

Daenerys is the judge at the moment. She has to do what she does. And the people she kills have a direct link to her. They wronged her and she has to do what she does.

Arya is just on a killing spree. Who did she kill that really wronged her? I mean really her. Maybe one or two.

Killing people for money is nothing a sellsword doesn't do. & since knights have to eat I imagine they kill for money too.

I don't think Dany had to have MMD burned alive which qualifies as torture and some of the people she had punished she wasn't certain they were guilty.

[mimsy187]

Who are your other 2? I find that many of the people who love Arya tend to love the same characters.

Haha! That 20-year write up you posted was a fun read. My other two are Jon and Theon. Theons characterization and his moral/ethical dilemmas are just way too interesting to ignore. His chapters are nuts and he's just a really well written character. I love the unsettling feeling of trying to decide if he's good or bad as I read about him, and why. LOVE those types of characters. I like Jon, because I could easily empathize and relate to him in the first book, and then I've just been a Jon supporter ever since. Awesome, awesome, character. His arc will only get better as the books continue ( I hope! =S ). Arya has all of those aspects I mentioned and more. LOVE her.

[Metopheles]

Killing people for money is nothing a sellsword doesn't do. & since knights have to eat I imagine they kill for money too.

I don't think Dany had to have MMD burned alive which qualifies as torture and some of the people she had punished she wasn't certain they were guilty.

Arya is what? Twelve?

I have nothing about her profession..that much. As I said, I like such characters in fiction, but she just lost any sense of reality and became the evil she hated so much.

And she originally intended to kill some people on her list, now she just kills someone she doesn't even know anything about.

A sellsword kills for a purpose and is more of a bodyguard. I wouldn't really compare the two, neither any other person that kills for a living.

What was the point of killing Daeron? It is not her duty.

She just kills because the voice in her head tells her it is right.

She is exactly like Joffrey. Its a crazy kid that has been given unlimited power and its a kid that is filled with hate and easily provoked and quick to act.

And MMD was not justified. As much as I love Daenerys and the dragons that came from the action, it was wrong. MMD killed no one.

[Lady Howell]

She's not a sociopath, though she is in a dangerous place where she could become one. She has morality still and is not antisocial (though I will admit that she is a very abrasive character at this point to say the least) since she can get along well enough with others even in Bravos. So she lacks the key components to be a sociopath. She's just very traumatized.

Arya is like a child soldier presently. She's still knee deep in a probably one of the most horrific situations imaginable for a child, but when and if she ever gets out of it, it is completely possible for her to recover mentally and emotionally and become a well adjusted individual.

[Darksnider05]

Arya is what? Twelve?

I have nothing about her profession..that much. As I said, I like such characters in fiction, but she just lost any sense of reality and became the evil she hated so much.

And she originally intended to kill some people on her list, now she just kills someone she doesn't even know anything about.

A sellsword kills for a purpose and is more of a bodyguard. I wouldn't really compare the two, neither any other person that kills for a living.

What was the point of killing Daeron? It is not her duty.

She just kills because the voice in her head tells her it is right.

She is exactly like Joffrey. Its a crazy kid that has been given unlimited power and its a kid that is filled with hate and easily provoked and quick to act.

And MMD was not justified. As much as I love Daenerys and the dragons that came from the action, it was wrong. MMD killed no one.

I think were just going to disagree the things your saying seem to be out of touch with in verse reality.

You compared a sellsword to a body guard. I can't really comprehend that comparison beyond they both deal with violence possibly.

[ARYa_Nym]

Arya is what? Twelve?

I have nothing about her profession..that much. As I said, I like such characters in fiction, but she just lost any sense of reality and became the evil she hated so much.

And she originally intended to kill some people on her list, now she just kills someone she doesn't even know anything about.

A sellsword kills for a purpose and is more of a bodyguard. I wouldn't really compare the two, neither any other person that kills for a living.

What was the point of killing Daeron? It is not her duty.

She just kills because the voice in her head tells her it is right.

She is exactly like Joffrey. Its a crazy kid that has been given unlimited power and its a kid that is filled with hate and easily provoked and quick to act.

And MMD was not justified. As much as I love Daenerys and the dragons that came from the action, it was wrong. MMD killed no one.

Bronn is a sellsword and would kill anyone if the price is right. I believe there was talk about a baby although that may have only been the show.

Arya does not hear voices in her head. She killed him because she wanted to. I'm not saying it's right but I don't see madness.

[Metopheles]

I think were just going to disagree the things your saying seem to be out of touch with in verse reality.

You compared a sellsword to a body guard. I can't really comprehend that comparison beyond they both deal with violence possibly.

Bronn is a sellsword and would kill anyone if the price is right. I believe there was talk about a baby although that may have only been the show.

Arya does not hear voices in her head. She killed him because she wanted to. I'm not saying it's right but I don't see madness.

Hey it's alright to like her as a character. I just don't see the awesomeness about her. But be real. Accept your character for what he/she is.

[Light a wight tonight]

What readers and Arya all miss, is the point that she became exactly the people she hated so much. She hates cold killers. She hates the Hound and Ilyn. Now she is exactly like them

I think it's not the readers and Arya that are missing things. She doesn't hate killers. She does hate individuals who have caused her or her "pack" injury. Sandor killed Mycah, for instance. Ilyn killed her father. Cersei certainly injured the Starks, ordering Lady's death and arresting Ned. Amory Lorch attacked the recruits for the Watch and killed Joren. Weese terrorized her and the other servants at Harrenhall. Everyone on her list is there for a reason. Everyone she's killed was killed for some reason. She's not becoming anything like Cersei, Weese or Lorch.

[ARYa_Nym]

Hey it's alright to like her as a character. I just don't see the awesomeness about her. But be real. Accept your character for what he/she is.

Ok? So I must think she's insane like you do? I don't think so . & like I said thinking she's insane doesn't support the notion that she's a psychopath which is what this thread is about.

I think to excuse them is ignoring things in the text anyways. Time and time again we are told sellswords are untrustworthy. They would guard you and kill for you one day and kill you for someone else the next. We are told to question knights. Gregor is knighted and look how he behaves. He had the sanction of his liege lord to rape and murder and gets pardoned for butchering a baby and raping and murdering a woman. But it's ok and he's not monstrous either because he gets paid. I don't think so. Sure Arya has embraced being the monster but guess what in ADWD Dany did too.

[Metopheles]

I think it's not the readers and Arya that are missing things. She doesn't hate killers. She does hate individuals who have caused her or her "pack" injury. Sandor killed Mycah, for instance. Ilyn killed her father. Cersei certainly injured the Starks, ordering Lady's death and arresting Ned. Amory Lorch attacked the recruits for the Watch and killed Joren. Weese terrorized her and the other servants at Harrenhall. Everyone on her list is there for a reason. Everyone she's killed was killed for some reason. She's not becoming anything like Cersei, Weese or Lorch.

what about Daeron and the guys she killed from her assassination assignment? She set out to kill them because she was told to. Just like Ilyn did and the Hound.

And it's not like Cersei killed Lady because she got off to it, she feared the beast would injure her family, because the other wolf injured Joffrey. I mean she is just a mum. Joff told some story and all Cersei saw was the result, a bleeding hand. Who would not act irrational in such a situation. So Cersei is similar to Arya in that aspect. Both love their pack, their families, and will kill for them.

[Metopheles]

Ok? So I must think she's insane like you do? I don't think so . & like I said thinking she's insane doesn't support the notion that she's a psychopath which is what this thread is about.

I think to excuse them is ignoring things in the text anyways. Time and time again we are told sellswords are untrustworthy. They would guard you and kill for you one day and kill you for someone else the next. We are told to question knights. Gregor is knighted and look how he behaves. He had the sanction of his liege lord to rape and murder and gets pardoned for butchering a baby and raping and murdering a woman. But it's ok and he's not monstrous either because he gets paid. I don't think so. Sure Arya has embraced being the monster but guess what in ADWD Dany did too.

Are you even talking to me?

You make some weird arguments that have nothing to do with what I have said.

edit: Oh and the thread is about sociopath. Not psychopath. And she is pretty much both..

[ARYa_Nym]

Are you even talking to me?

You make some weird arguments that have nothing to do with what I have said.

edit: Oh and the thread is about sociopath. Not psychopath. And she is pretty much both..

The op edited and said she/he meant psychopath. Neither sociopaths or psychopaths are insane so again you seem to be the one going on an off topic tangent.

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Hey it's alright to like her as a character. I just don't see the awesomeness about her. But be real. Accept your character for what he/she is.

:rolleyes: So Arya_Nym or any other Arya fan needs to agree with you, Metopheles, because you clearly have a superior understanding of the text and Arya as a character.

*One person calls Arya out on her crap*

Arya stans: WHY IS SHE GETTING SO MUCH HATE FROM PEOPLE???

Yeah there are alot of Arya stans on here freaking out. :bs:

As previously noted there is a difference between noting that Arya is a dark character and calling her a sociopath or psychopath, which isn't supported in the text.

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

what about Daeron and the guys she killed from her assassination assignment? She set out to kill them because she was told to. Just like Ilyn did and the Hound.

And it's not like Cersei killed Lady because she got off to it, she feared the beast would injure her family, because the other wolf injured Joffrey. I mean she is just a mum. Joff told some story and all Cersei saw was the result, a bleeding hand. Who would not act irrational in such a situation. So Cersei is similar to Arya in that aspect. Both love their pack, their families, and will kill for them.

Bullshit. Cersei DID kill Lady because she was being a vindictive bitch and wanted the Starks to pay as much as possible. There was no reason to kill Lady, she was gentle and sweet, and certainly posed little threat to anyone as long as they didn't harm Sansa.

As for Dareon, Arya didn't kill him because she was told to. Arya killed him because she thought he needed to die. Again you are ignoring the fact that Arya doesn't hate people just because they kill. She hate's people because of moral and personal reasons. Arya is getting more amoral, she no longer just kills those who pose a threat or prevent her from escaping but she still isn't the Hound. Arya hasn't hunted down and cut down an innocent boy nor has she killed innocent children (babes) like Lorch.

Arya is what? Twelve?

I have nothing about her profession..that much. As I said, I like such characters in fiction, but she just lost any sense of reality and became the evil she hated so much.

And she originally intended to kill some people on her list, now she just kills someone she doesn't even know anything about.

A sellsword kills for a purpose and is more of a bodyguard. I wouldn't really compare the two, neither any other person that kills for a living.

What was the point of killing Daeron? It is not her duty.

She just kills because the voice in her head tells her it is right.

She is exactly like Joffrey. Its a crazy kid that has been given unlimited power and its a kid that is filled with hate and easily provoked and quick to act.

And MMD was not justified. As much as I love Daenerys and the dragons that came from the action, it was wrong. MMD killed no one.

No a sellsword is a hired gun. They can serve as a bodyguard but they also kill because they are told to.

And Arya is nothing like Joffery. Arya hasn't crossed that particular line that and isn't like Joff or Ramsay. She IS a dark character who is only going to get darker but she's not a brutal sadist who loves terrorizing innocent people.

[Pablius]

I don`t know about psychiatric diagnoses, but Arya not only lost her moral compass, she burned it down while howling to the moon, she`s too far gone...

Her chapters are quite enjoyable, and the last one from WoW it`s great, but the chances of her going back to be the girl of the first novel are most likely zero

She is more like one of those children forced into war, damaged forever, I´m not sure where or how her story will end, but probably more on the bitter side of the overall bittersweet ending

[Darksnider05]

I don`t know about psychiatric diagnoses, but Arya not only lost her moral compass, she burned it down while howling to the moon, she`s too far gone...

Her chapters are quite enjoyable, and the last one from WoW it`s great, but the chances of her going back to be the girl of the first novel are most likely zero

She is more like one of those children forced into war, damaged forever, I´m not sure where or how her story will end, but probably more on the bitter side of the overall bittersweet ending

How would that help her the world isn't going to become a nicer place if she's defenseless? Like what kind of mental back flips would someone have to do to think that would be a positive change.

[ARYa_Nym]

Putting it more into perspective Ted Bundy for example tried the insanity defense but it did not work. Being cruel and being a murderer does not automatically mean crazy just like being a murderer doesn't automatically mean psychopath. Ted actually was said to have what it takes to be a politician. Many don't kill and will be things like a politician or a CEO and things like that. A lot of the traits are beneficial in those fields.