hollowcrown Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Many maintain that the Unsullied are the greatest fighting force in the world. In Essos, this may be true, but against any good Westerosi army, be it Dorne, the Golden Company, or the Tyrell host, I can't see them suceeding. The only force they'd have a chance against is the Wildling host. I just don't see them doing well against the combined cavalry, spears, archers and heavy infantry of a Westerosi army. Raining arrows on them whilst combined with a strong infantry charge, followed by a flanking movement of Westerosi knights. Of course when combined with Ironborn heavy infantry and Dothraki light cavalry that's a different option. How do you think they'd do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skythe1 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I don't think they'd do too badly at first. Their spears would probably help against the cavalry and their shields would be moderately effective against archers if they stayed in formation. Once the heavy infantry came wading in though.... I think that's a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornishscorpion Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yeah the unsullied always seemed to me composed of a homogeneous fighting force . Alone they can't stand a chance against a westerosi army. However i believe that should Danny attack westeros these unsullied shall be supplemented by various other troops from essos besides the dragons of course which the mere sight of will cause any facing army to break and run away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 They'd be effective as part of a larger army that includes light and heavy cavalry. On their own they'd be effective against the sort of levies the Lords come up with, poorly-trained peasants. But against heavy cavalry they'd be toast. Plus, there aren't all that many, and there's no guarantee that they'd all be together after traveling across the Narrow Sea in the upcoming bad weather. Ships would be scattered and even sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yes, they are outdated by 2,000 years and physically weaker. All the training and discipline can't make up for that. They'll be slaughtered in the first real battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornishscorpion Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yes, they are outdated by 2,000 years and physically weaker. All the training and discipline can't make up for that. They'll be slaughtered in the first real battle.i second you on the outdated part . In most (but not all) of essos seem to me a thousand years behind westeros it has a lot of aspects of antiquity whereas westeros has aspects of medieval europe (stating the obvious ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collis Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I have a hard time seeing them as effective in different types of terrain. Westerosi armies are working with better equipment, knowledge of the terrain, more flexibility, and let's face it, a spear on a MOVING plate and mail armor target..not so effective. That is why bludgeoning weapons were so effective against armored targets, the kinetic energy is what was needed to do the damage. Unsullied would literally be smashed, of course provided they don't have dragon support; however dragons cannot be everywhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Heath Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Don't they exclusively use the phalanx? It worked for the Greeks because Greece was full of narrow mountain passes where they could form a choke point. The Romans tried to use the phalanx in Italy, in open battle, and got their asses kicked, so the Romans being the practical sort; ditching things when they ceased to be useful or function, ditched the phalanx and used far more versatile formations. The phalanx is useless against the diversified tactics utilized by the Westerosi armies, especially in open battle.It's slow, has an obvious weak point; the back, and is inflexible, a levy of Westerosi men-at-arms with knights would defeat them. Unless they have plot armor, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheonGreyjoy Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 They would be crushed against a westorosi force, in a similar way Stannis crushed the wildlings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I would put the unsullied against any westerosi infantry force in a heads up spear line battle. The fact of the matter is that battles are not fought to the death, one side turns and runs, but grrm has gone threw a lot of effort to tell us that the unsullied will literally fight to the last man. If they had archers behind them and cavalry on their flanks I think they would do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collis Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I would put the unsullied against any westerosi infantry force in a heads up spear line battle. The fact of the matter is that battles are not fought to the death, one side turns and runs, but grrm has gone threw a lot of effort to tell us that the unsullied will literally fight to the last man. If they had archers behind them and cavalry on their flanks I think they would do just fine I'll take that bet. 8,000 corpses, man those would be some happy crows! Pikes vs. Spears.... Let me put this in perspective, a pike is 3 to 7.5 metres (10 to 25 feet) long. A spear is typically 2-2.75m (7–9 ft.) for infantry. Anyone see a problem here? It's like Victarion vs. Euron's masts.... (bad joke) Basically in visual. Pike Spear _________________ ________ I don't think any more illustration is needed for Unsullied vs a Westerosi Pike force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Don't they exclusively use the phalanx? We don't know for certain. It's implied though. It worked for the Greeks because Greece was full of narrow mountain passes where they could form a choke point. It worked on open plains as well. The Romans tried to use the phalanx in Italy, in open battle, and got their asses kicked, so the Romans being the practical sort; ditching things when they ceased to be useful or function, ditched the phalanx and used far more versatile formations. The phalanx worked very well - until some smart guy improved it. And improved it again. And again and again and again and again... The phalanx is useless against the diversified tactics utilized by the Westerosi armies, especially in open battle. It's slow, has an obvious weak point; the back, and is inflexible, a levy of Westerosi men-at-arms with knights would defeat them. And the flanks. And the retreat. And turning. And a concentrated attack. And proper pikes. And stronger opponents. And and and. Unless they have plot armor, of course. Unlikely. GRRM has set them up to fail, consciously. He'll pull that of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Leech_Lord Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 They would do horribly. Adaptability, manouverability and speed are the most important factors in a battle. The other day I was reading an osprey book which said that phalanx battles took place mostly in only one way- the two phalanxes clash, they push- a lot- until there is a break developed in the lines of either army.Apparently they were so horrible at adapting to terrain that commanders would often agree to meet in a plain field to give batle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'll take that bet. 8,000 corpses, man those would be some happy crows! Pikes vs. Spears.... Let me put this in perspective, a pike is 3 to 7.5 metres (10 to 25 feet) long. A spear is typically 2-2.75m (7–9 ft.) for infantry. Anyone see a problem here? It's like Victarion vs. Euron's masts.... (bad joke) Basically in visual. Pike Spear _________________ ________ I don't think any more illustration is needed for Unsullied vs a Westerosi Pike force. Accept that the infantry in westeros don't have uniform pikes, we are told several times that many of them are using farming skythes and pitch forks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tf13 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Does Dany have 8,000 North Face jackets for them too? There's no way they could compete unless it were in Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collis Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Many maintain that the Unsullied are the greatest fighting force in the world. In Essos, this may be true, but against any good Westerosi army, be it Dorne, the Golden Company, or the Tyrell host, I can't see them suceeding. The only force they'd have a chance against is the Wildling host. I just don't see them doing well against the combined cavalry, spears, archers and heavy infantry of a Westerosi army. Raining arrows on them whilst combined with a strong infantry charge, followed by a flanking movement of Westerosi knights. Of course when combined with Ironborn heavy infantry and Dothraki light cavalry that's a different option. How do you think they'd do? Back to the original question...Who is the Many in the many maintain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collis Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Accept that the infantry in westeros don't have uniform pikes, we are told several times that many of them are using farming skythes and pitch forks. Hence the range being put (3 to 7.5 metres (10 to 25 feet) and 2-2.75m (7–9 ft.)). You said a spear force. I was using the premise you presented. Technically those with sythes, those wouldn't be pikemen, then would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripper Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 They will be the only fighting force with enough discipline to successfully fight the Others. The spears will be tipped with dragon glass and the dragons will support them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Leech_Lord Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 They will be the only fighting force with enough discipline to successfully fight the Others. The spears will be tipped with dragon glass and the dragons will support them If they dont die of cold first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collis Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 If they dont die of cold first Timitt will kill them all. While wearing the members of other men he's killed. The sight of the members will send them running in fear! Just think of what Tormund would do! I've heard he can sweep aside phalanxs with his member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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