Dragons north of the Wall? (TWOW spoilers)

[Ruin]

I like the idea of an Ice Dragon, especially as a mount for an Other. It was mentioned that an Ice Dragon could even possibly be frozen inside the Wall. That would also be great, but I'm hoping when it comes time for the Wall to come down, that huge Ice Spiders will spring forth and seek terrible vengeance on the living, lol.

An Other Dragonrider would be epic, but seeing an Other, or the NK on a Wight-Shelob... :drool:

[GERM]

This would make total sense!!! What if the "king's blood" that is sacrificed to wake a "stone dragon" is Jon's, and the stone dragon is a dragon in the wall??? When Jon is being stabbed, his attackers keep on repeating "for the wall." That sounds like a sacrifice if ever I've heard one!

I find this theory highly implausible and wishful. Jon was shanked prison style.

However tacky it may seem, Jon is making it through this ordeal.

This made me think of what Melisandre said, "She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai." - Page 411 of the hardback of ADWD. Maybe this is proof that there is indeed an ice dragon within the wall.

Edit: Lord Damian beat me to it.

Way to make me look like a moron! Maybe there are dragons in Asshai :bang:

[TheMountainThatHides]

There has been a lot of discussion of Jon "surviving" his attack by warging into Ghost. But... what if his sacrifice "For the Watch" immediately brings forth the ice dragon, and he wargs into it as it brings down the wall? This would combine Jon's Stark blood (ice) and his presumed Targaryen blood (dragon). I realize it's pretty far-fetched but I think it would be probably the most epic way possible for Jon to "survive" his attack.

EDIT: I just joined this forum and this is my first post of any kind. I've read the series, watched every episode of the show to date and am in the process of my first re-read. I hung around without posting on here for awhile just getting acquainted with all the theories floating around out there. Hope I can contribute like all of you someday

[elwhappochachee]

Alright I don't know if this has been talked about or not but I have a thought. Westeros and essos could also be connected from the east of essos and the west of westeros. If the world of aSoIaF is actually round the very east of the know world could be the door step of the west in westeros. It fits in with this theory that Valyria is a lot closer than previously thought and that dragons could have landed in the North. It also makes dannys prophecy make a lot more sense, to go west you must go east

Just a thought..

[TheMountainThatHides]

Alright I don't know if this has been talked about or not but I have a thought. Westeros and essos could also be connected from the east of essos and the west of westeros. If the world of aSoIaF is actually round the very east of the know world could be the door step of the west in westeros. It fits in with this theory that Valyria is a lot closer than previously thought and that dragons could have landed in the North. It also makes dannys prophecy make a lot more sense, to go west you must go east

Just a thought..

Interesting possibility but if you look at a combined map of the known world, it is very hard to support this idea. The western border of Westeros is coastline all the way from Dorne to north of the wall. Essos doesn't extend as far north as Westeros, so while we don't see the eastern border of Essos it really isn't feasible for the two continents to connect. What if there's some sort of Harry Potter vanishing cabinet deal? Daenerys transports three dragons to Westeros in the same way Malfoy brought the Death Eaters into Hogwarts...lol

[elwhappochachee]

Yeah I was looking at maps to see the geographical location of the two and found the same thing, it most likely won't happen but it makes sense for explaining the prophecy IMO.

Even if it doesn't explain the ice dragons danny could still travel east to the eastern coast of esso. (If so we as readers would get to see asshia) and take ships (possibly the iron fleet) to westeros and take the seven kingdoms in surprise as they are expecting her to come from the east rather than the west. again it could very well not happen but its just a thought I had.

[TheMountainThatHides]

It would be nice to be able to see the entire world rather than just parts of three continents. I'm not even sure if Martin knows what his entire world looks like at this point though. It might be irrelevant or maybe there's a big revelation planned. Either way I wish we knew what the whole world looked like

[Locksley]

First post here as well but I've been reading the forums for years now.

Here's an odd thought I had, I don't really believe it my self, but I can't quite get it out of my head.

What if (and I know this is a big and unlikely "what if") the Great Other is an Ice Dragon?

Maybe that's why there's ice magic and magic in the world before Dany's dragons are born. We know there must be some sort of magic that creates Wight's, presumably from the Great Other, but magic seems to come from dragons, or at least the little knowledge we have seems to suggest this.

So what if the Great Other is an ancient and intelligent Ice Dragon that creates wights/possibly corrupted some humans or COTF (or some other race) and made them Others?

Crazy idea.

[Grrrod]

Not crazy. Balanced

[Jaden]

Well, GRRM is releasing a book title The Ice Dragon so it could very well be that there is an ice dragon in the Wall or north of the Wall. If you want to see the current artwork from the book, here is the link:
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/08/grrm-ice-dragon-final-cover

The story was described as being one of Old Nan's tales and the book itself is suppose to be a children's book.... Anyway here is the catalog description.

Adara liked the winter best of all, for when the world grew cold the ice dragon came. The ice dragon was a creature of legend and fear, for no man had ever tamed one. When it flew overhead, it left in its wake desolate cold and frozen land. But Adara was not afraid. For Adara was a winter child, born during the worst freeze that anyone, even the Old Ones, could remember.

Adara could not remember the first time she had seen the ice dragon. It seemed that it had always been in her life, glimpsed from afar as she played in the frigid snow long after the other children had fled the cold. In her fourth year she touched it, and in her fifth year she rode upon its broad, chilled back for the first time. Then, in her seventh year, on a calm summer day, fiery dragons from the North swooped down upon the peaceful farm that was Adara’s home. And only a winter child—and the ice dragon who loved her—could save her world from utter destruction.

[quirpele]

Other Ice Dragon references:

Bran:
“Osha,” Bran asked as they crossed the yard. “Do you know the way north? To the Wall and . . . and even past?”
“The way’s easy. Look for the Ice Dragon, and chase the blue star in the rider’s eye.”

When they lost their way, as happened once or twice, they need only wait for a clear cold night when the clouds did not intrude, and look up in the sky for the Ice Dragon. The blue star in the dragon’s eye pointed the way north, as Osha told him once...

Jon: (ASOS)

Maester Luwin had taught him his stars as a boy in Winterfell; he had learned the names of the twelve houses of heaven and the rulers of each; he could find the seven wanderers sacred to the Faith; he was old friends with the Ice Dragon, the Shadowcat, the Moonmaid, and the Sword of the Morning. (Discussing stars with Ygritte)

Thunder rumbled softly in the distance, but above him the clouds were breaking up. Jon searched the sky until he found the Ice Dragon, then turned the mare north for the Wall and Castle Black. (Escaping from the wildlings)

Sam (ASOS) (Heading back to the Wall with Gilly)

By day he took directions from the sun, and on clear nights they could follow the Ice Dragon’s tail, though they hadn’t traveled much by night since the second horse had died.

Davos: (When they learn Joff is dead)

The clouds hid most of the Ice Dragon, all but the bright blue eye that marked due north. The sky is full of smugglers’ stars. They were old friends, those stars; Davos hoped that meant good luck.

So far these are all references to the stars. but this one is not:

Jon (ASOS) when he goes down to check the gate and finds Noye and Mag dead:

The ice pressed close around them, and he could feel the cold seeping into his bones, the weight of the Wall above his head. it felt like walking down the gullet of an ice dragon.

No mention in AFFC.

And there are the 3 mentions of ice dragon in Jon chapters in ADWD. That's all.

I subscribe to the theory that there is an ice dragon within the Wall, resulting in the agic and teh extreme cold. Maybe the Wall comes down because of Jon's blood sacrifice (he was practically sacrificed for the well-being of the Watch), and an ice dragon will be released. I don't really believe in it but it definitely would make some sense. (a king's blood to wake a dragon...)

I think it's interesting that in the first instance, the blue star is in the rider's eye and in the second the blue star is in the dragon's eye. In other mentions of the constellation, it isn't clear whose eye is being referred to, or the dragon itself or its tail are used to find bearings.
If the Ice Dragon constellation is a hint/foreshadowing to an actual Ice Dragon in the North, I'd say that the "blue star" in the rider and/or dragon's eye indicates Other affiliation for the dragon and its rider.
The idea of a dragon North of the Wall is so irresistible, I want to believe in it despite the sketchy evidence. My ideal scenario would be for Jon to die (sorry), come back as an Other (if that's even possible) and the rider of the Ice Dragon.

[Faceless Man Friday]

Although it is unknown whether or not the ice dragon story is set in the land of ice and fire I think it is interesting that Martin is re-releasing that story and the other novellas that were short stories at this time. I think he wants to get his stories out that he is already written beforr the show catches up with the books. There may be some clues in these stories as to how the ice and fire story is going to develop. I don't think he wants his readers to find out his plot twists in the show so he is dropping hints from the material that he used as background for the story of ice and fire.