KingMaekarWasHere Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Hey everybody! So I have a theory on the Ghost of High Heart. We pretty much can say as a fact whether from the wiki or anywhere else that the Ghost was the woods witch who was friends with Jenny of Oldstones. King Jaeherys II and his father Egg (Aegon V) heard the prophecy of the PTWP from the woods witch herself most likely at court back when Prince Aerys was likely just a child or teenager. Now the witch told Egg and Prince Jaeherys and likely Prince Duncan who Jenny loved, that the PTWP would be born of the union of Aerys and Rhaella. Now as far as we know this witch is the only person to have proven this fact! No one else of that time period including Bloodraven or Prince Aemon who both went to the Wall, mentioned this as the stone cold truth. So let us please consider our source here, because like Dany was tricked by a "witch" when her husband and baby were killed, so too may Egg and his sons have been fooled by the Ghost of High Heart! (especially if the said ghost had a reason behind her fake words, whether a good or evil reason. I propose that it could have been for perhaps one of two reasons.) Possible Reason One- Could have been for Revenge against the "Blacks," the Princess' Alliance from back during the days of the Dance of Dragons. (upcoming quote was taken from the wiki)“ She saw you in a storm cloud, in a mountain pool at dusk, in the fire we lit to cook our suppers. She sees much and more, my Alys.[1]” - Prince Aemond Targaryen to Prince Daemon Targaryen So my one idea for the Ghost of High Heart's true identity and why she would want to destroy Egg's line and bring it to ruin, could be that she was possibly Alys Rivers or the daughter of Alys from the Princess and the Queen story. Do not go forward if you haven't read it as there will be spoilers! Now that story is very important as it likely gives clues to the future of the novels, and that is likely why GRRM wrote that story before doing another Dunk and Egg because the Dance changed the world forever in GRRM’s universe. Now before we go any further you guys might like to read up on the HuisClois theories of Sansa and Harrenhall because they kind of connect to my theory right here. Why you may ask, well because Alys Rivers who ends up with Aemond and conceives an unborn baby with him before he dies, is likely a woman that he met while at Harrenhall. (Similarly to how Jaime met the woman he bedded at Harrenhall if I’m not mistaken but let’s move on.) The big point is that Alys knows of Rhollor which is odd for a woman of the Riverlands, as Stannis and his lords only know about Rhollor through Melisandre. And where is the future Ghost of High Heart from? “The Riverlands” that is where. And remember how the Ghost tells Arya and others of such pain and grief in her life? Well Aemond was her true love or her father depending on if you believe that the Ghost was Alys or her daughter. Either way she lost a father she never knew or her one true love in the Dance when Daemon eventually killed his nephew in the major dragon battle over the God’s Eye. Seems strange that so much important stuff has happened around that Lake, well read some Huis Clois theories and they will wake you more up to the significance of Harrenhall and the God’s Eye. So if indeed the Ghost is Alys or her daughter and is in communion with Rhollor as expressed by her red-colored eyes then how is it that the Ghost has lived so long? Well I am thinking that the Lord of Light religion has more secrets and connections to the Weirwood trees than we think. Also don’t forget that Dondarrion lived with Rhollor’s magic too. But whether the Ghost is Alys or Alys’ daughter or even granddaughter, the Ghost is connected to Aemond Targaryen and thus in some way is very loyal to him and his memory. Now as a historian of Westeros could tell you after Aemond’s brother’s death somehow Daemon’s son Aegon III became king and after him his sons the Young Dragon and Baelor the Blessed, and so on from there. “They all descend from Daemon.” Daemon killed Aemond…which is even more important than the fact that Daemon was originally Black and not Green. So from Aegon III and on, all Targaryen kings including Egg are direct descendants of the Rogue Prince himself. By the way ever wonder why GRRM talks about Daemon so often whether in the Princess story or the Rogue Prince? Maybe because he is leading you down the trail? After all Alys herself was on a tower of Harrenhall when the epic dragon battle ensued between uncle and nephew and she saw her lover die. She was in all likelihood devastated beyond belief, thus could this be where the Ghost’s suffering originated? Nevertheless Egg and his relatives were all “Blacks” while Alys was forever “Green” for she loved Aemond. Is it not improbable to assume that she may have wanted revenge then? People in Westeros have wanted revenge for less. And true revenge can sometimes take a lot of planning, thus we can wonder if the Ghost was hoping that the Targaryens would have been destroyed in the Blackfyre Rebellion where Daemon the Rogue Prince’s descendants battled and killed each other for the throne? Could the Ghost have also bewitched or tricked Jenny to have married Duncan the Small, knowing that his line would be disinherited? Or did she do it for the fear that Duncan’s line could have resurrected the Targaryen dynasty instead of destroying it like Aerys’ line would? 2. Possible Reason Two- Could have been for “Pure Reasons.” The Ghost of High Heart could have been behind Jenny and the Duncan disinheritance because she may have seen a worse fate in store for the Targaryens if Duncan had not married Jenny. Who knows really what her (Alys’) fires show her? She may have also acted against the Rogue Prince’s line for other reasons though. Remember that Aemond was Daemon’s “paternal line nephew!” He was thus a Targaryen and not a supposed bastard like the Strongs/Velyarons (sorry if that name is misspelled). Thus when Daemon killed Aemond he potentially damned his line to be “cursed” for being a line of kinslayers. Aemond was arguably not a kinslayer at all because he killed his cousin the Strong/Veylaron not a fellow Targaryen! So could it be that Rhollor and the Old God’s, along with the Ghost, are enacting justice upon Daemon’s line across all time from the Dance on? Could Daemon’s descendants be cursed? Well many of his direct line have been killed in war or in other strange ways, Daemon Blackfyre and his sons, Baelor Breakspeare, King Maekar, Aerion Brightflame, Aerys the Mad King, Prince Viserys the Beggar King, Egg at Summerhall, and even Rhaegar at the hands of Robert ironically in the Riverlands. Do the Old Gods remember? Did “they” see what Daemon did at the God’s Eye, did the supposed Green Men see from their isle? Is Daemon’s line cursed? Maybe is all I can say. If what has happened to his heirs is simply just “fate” then I could be wrong. But if the Ghost saw and she believes that Daemon’s line should be extinguished it is possible that the Green Men or the Old Gods are helping her? Maybe she feels justified and she didn’t send Jenny to marry Duncan for personal revenge? Who can say really? But what happened at Summerhall is likely connected to this, and it’s not impossible that the Ghost knew that with Egg and Duncan out of the way, Jaeherys II’s line including Aerys would destroy the realm, the “Black Targaryen” dynasty. Keep in mind too another important question. Why is the Isle of Faces also called the Isle or Island of “the Green Men.” Is the island literally filled with Green men or is it a secret symbolic reference to the Greens from the Dance of Dragons era. Are Alys and Aemond’s descendants there? Have they been waiting for their time to take back the Iron Throne from the accursed line of Daemon the Rogue Prince? Of course the “pure reason” on another note may not have to do with Old God justice. It might have to do with the “actual” prophecy of the PTWP that the Ghost saw in her fires. The Ghost may have seen that Duncan the Small’s line through Jenny of Oldstones could have been the real line of TPTWP! And to save this line from the curse of Daemon, she encouraged Jenny and Duncan to wed so that the princes of that line would be disinherited. So Jaeherys II and his line would take the fall and the Duncan’s line would survive. It is possible thus that the Ghost saw in her fires all the war and destruction of Robert’s Rebellion and beyond but “let it happen” to save the world by protecting Duncan’s bloodline. Just an idea but it could help in unraveling the mystery. The Ghost however knows much and more when likely compared to other Red Priests, as she knows about the connections between the Weirwood trees and Rhollor. Melisandre thus is likely wrong in her predictions on Stannis. I think that Alys and her line know the truth of it though, so it’s too bad that the Arya chapter with the Ghost is the very last time that we see the woods witch.My Conclusion: Call this theory crackpot if you will, but even if none of these aspects are spot on I think that the reality that the Ghost is Alys or one of Alys’ descendants, may indeed be spot on. Anyway though whether you liked this theory or not, thanks of course for reading and I appreciate the time put into reading it. Have a good one everyone!As always KingMaekarWasHere :) B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I like it, OP! I have to say, Alys Rivers (or her daughter) is the best candidate for the identity of the Ghost I've seen I think this line, She saw you in a storm cloud, in a mountain pool at dusk, in the fire we lit to cook our suppers. She sees much and more, my Alys. suggests that she's more than a R'hllor worshipper, because I understand they can only see things in the flames, yet she sees thngs in other elements. To me that sounds almost like a balance between R'hllor and the Old Gods, which is what many people think the Song of Ice and Fire really is And I think this bit was very interesting as well: Why is the Isle of Faces also called the Isle or Island of “the Green Men.” Is the island literally filled with Green men or is it a secret symbolic reference to the Greens from the Dance of Dragons era. Are Alys and Aemond’s descendants there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester2chainz Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 1 thing though, Rhaegar used to play songs for her to get her to tell him visions, so i don't think the woods witch would have a personal vendetta against him or his family line. Also why would she say she had grief in summer hall if she was actually happy that all of the people of the line she wants dead all died. The backstory about her might make sense though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 very interesting... But I always thought the Ghost had a bit of the Children of the Forest in her. Maybe I missed something OP but how would that fit in or is that not part of this theory? EDIT: never mind :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMaekarWasHere Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 very interesting... But I always thought the Ghost had a bit of the Children of the Forest in her. Maybe I missed something OP but how would that fit in or is that not part of this theory? EDIT: never mind :bang: Well Aemond was a shorter Targ so maybe everyone though that she was a child of the forest because she inherited his shortness? It's arguably a little too easy to call her a child of the forest, but that may be what people thought because she was a small woman with red eyes and white hair. But that alone could have been because she may have inherited the white hair and shortness from her father. Just some ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMaekarWasHere Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 1 thing though, Rhaegar used to play songs for her to get her to tell him visions, so i don't think the woods witch would have a personal vendetta against him or his family line. Also why would she say she had grief in summer hall if she was actually happy that all of the people of the line she wants dead all died. The backstory about her might make sense though Well Ser Mack you bring up a good point. But she may have had sympathy for Rhaegar that she didn't have for the rest. Also if her goal was to sacrifice Daemon's line for "pure reasons" like using Prince Duncan and Jenny's line to create the PTWP, she wouldn't hate Rhaegar but would instead feel sorry for him that he would have to die in Robert's Rebellion. Her grief at Summerhall came from Jenny's heartbreak most likely that Duncan the Small died and would never know the baby that she was carrying. That baby it has been theorized forms the real bloodline of the PTWP. So the Ghost may or may not have seen Duncan's death at Summerhall in her visions or she knew that it would happen so she had Jenny fall in love with him to produce the baby and to make sure that the baby wouldn't inherit anything and could "disappear." So where is Jenny and Duncan's child now? Is that family living on the Isle of the Greens? And is there a "Prince" waiting there? It makes you also wonder about all the dragon eggs under Dragonstone, could one or two of them ended up on the isle of Faces? Thanks for your comment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The prophecy of TDtwP did not originate with the woods witch. She only gave them the part about the Promised Dragon being of Aerys and Rhaella's line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMaekarWasHere Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 The prophecy of TDtwP did not originate with the woods witch. She only gave them the part about the Promised Dragon being of Aerys and Rhaella's line. I know. She knew the real prince likely wouldn't be of Daemon's line, that's what I meant. I still believe in the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I know. She knew the real prince likely wouldn't be of Daemon's line, that's what I meant. I still believe in the prophecy. Oh, ok. Sorry I was confused there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMaekarWasHere Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 Oh, ok. Sorry I was confused there. Oh no need to be sorry my post was kind of big with several ideas going on at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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