So how many people think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen?

[BearQueen87]

Its certainly not too obvious too Cersie, who's been killing people trying to get Margaery executed, and may have even thought it was Sansa before Margaery was introduced in Kings Landing. And i'd say the personal history could come in the form of Dany knowing her twin brother is revered for literally backstabbing her own father, knowing Cersies father as the one who sacked Kings Landing, knowing Cersies husband was the one to take the throne and attempt (an) assassination(s) on her life. "No personal history" ??

To the readers, Dany seems like the obvious choice and to Dany it's personal, but not to Cersei. I agree with that. But Cersei doesn't recognize any of this. And I think it might be too obvious from GRRM--you hear younger and more beautiful queen and minds jump to Dany because she fits all of that. But I think the more poetic answer would be Cersei destroying herself and everything she loves, and then Dany just picking up the pieces.

[BearQueen87]

If you've read book 4 then you should know the whole Cersie causing her own destruction boat has long sailed away

i am well aware. I said the same thing like 4 pages ago...it's what Cersei does.

[oursisthefury69]

I don't think that's quite fair. Dany's my very favorite character and I'm not convinced she's the YMBQ because I think it's a bit too obvious and anti-climactic given that she has no personal history with Cersei. If Dany is the YMBQ, then I'm not going to tear out my hair and cry bitter salty tears. I'll admit I was wrong, but my reasons for not thinking it's Dany have zero to do with my not liking her--quite the contrary.

#263

To the readers, Dany seems like the obvious choice and to Dany it's personal, but not to Cersei. I agree with that. But Cersei doesn't recognize any of this. And I think it might be too obvious from GRRM--you hear younger and more beautiful queen and minds jump to Dany because she fits all of that. But I think the more poetic answer would be Cersei destroying herself and everything she loves, and then Dany just picking up the pieces.

Ok so hopefully this fixes you talking circles around yourself and thinking you can just pretend like you dont recall what i was responding too. Read the bold people, "i agree with that" lmao your literally disagreeing with yourself from a few minutes ago, and then also starting a conversation with yourself where "you agree" to consenting that theres at least some 1sided animosity between the 2 lol

[larastone]

Who has actually used the word "impossible"? Besides you. Fair enough if you find someone who has, but the only person I see using it is you.

I keep asking the same questions because you never actually answer them satisfactorily the first time other than to say, "Timing? Eh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" I don't think you can just wave off the fact that Aegon is much, much closer to King's Landing, geographically and strategically, than Dany.

I think there's a chance that Aegon may decide to take some time and build his Westerosi army before sacking KL which would give Dany sometime to reach Cersei before she roasts him. Does this quench you??? There I've given you another theory. But I just feel like I didn't need to give an explanation because I specifically stated that I was focusing on endgames and what makes narrative sense to me rather than focusing on timing and details. Because I just don't see that as important. I don't understand why that's such a folly.

[sapphire_lion]

except she did..

... "I will be queen, though?" asked the younger her.

"Aye." Malice gleamed in Maggys yellow eyes. "Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

You are still assuming she meant another Queen.

considering the question that Cersei asks, the context and semantics. Maggy is most certainly talking about another queen replacing Cersei.

It is possible but not certain.

and the prophecy loses impact if anyone could fit in the role. plus the prophecy is all about cersei's downfall and everything Cersei holds dear, and Cersei cares about being queen. so it doesn't make narrative sense for it to not being a queen.

This is an opinion.

and while what I'm saying maybe priceless rn, but you know what's going to be even more priceless?? when it is actually another queen that will replace Cersei in the story and you'll find out that you were the one doing the reaching. that will be more priceless and satisfying above all.

Nothing could be more priceless than this. Not to me.

(1) I do not believe it is impossible for it to be another Queen.

(2) You'll still be thinking about this exchange in 2016 when the book is released.... and you will be very satisfied that I was wrong about something I fully accept as a possibility…

I hope you enjoy.

[oursisthefury69]

I can see it going that way. Cersei, by trying to avoid it all, destroys herself and everything around her, including her children. Then just when you think she can't loose anything else, the YMBQ comes along and takes her place as Queen of Westeros. (and then Cersei dies at the hands of her Volanqar). I would just prefer it be Cersei that causes her own destruction instead of it being someone else.

If you've read book 4 then you should know the whole Cersie causing her own destruction boat has long sailed away

i am well aware. I said the same thing like 4 pages ago...it's what Cersei does.

You clearly arent so indefintely aware seeing as you "can see it going that way" and its already all but happened (literally besides her being dethroned and strangled) in book 4

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think there's a chance that Aegon may decide to take some time and build his Westerosi army before sacking KL which would give Dany sometime to reach Cersei before she roasts him. Does this quench you??? There I've given you another theory. But I just feel like I didn't need to give an explanation because I specifically stated that I was focusing on endgames and what makes narrative sense to me rather than focusing on timing and details. Because I just don't see that as important. I don't understand why that's such a folly.

The problem with focusing on the "endgame" at the expense of "timing and details" is that without rational timing and details that make sense, you also wind up with an "endgame" that doesn't make much sense.

Considering that Aegon has already taken Storm's End and that Dany is still out in the middle of nowhere, not even in the proximity of Meereen (read: she's not leaving Essos any time soon), Aegon would have to be sitting on his ass for a long time in for Dany to still beat him to the punch. And if it takes Aegon that much time, when he's already there and already building up an army and support, why do you apparently think Dany will stroll into King's Landing as soon as she lands? Why wouldn't it also take her some time to consolidate forces? However you slice it, Aegon has a substantial lead over Dany when it comes to taking the capital.

[BearQueen87]

#263

Ok so hopefully this fixes you talking circles around yourself and thinking you can just pretend like you dont recall what i was responding too. Read the bold people, "i agree with that" lmao your literally disagreeing with yourself from a few minutes ago, and then also starting a conversation with yourself where "you agree" to consenting that theres at least some 1sided animosity between the 2 lol

And here's what I wrote in 215

My biggest issue with it being Dany is that it wouldn't be climatic enough. Right now, Dany and Cersei have never met and there's no personal hatred there. Dany doesn't like the Lannisters as a whole, but when you look at the other candidates there's some tension between the two characters. If it were to be Dany, then I'd say she'd only appear at the last possible second, after Cersei has destroyed everything around her. Dany doesn't actively cause Cersei's downfall, she just picks up the pieces afterwards; thus being the replacement.

Whereas with the other candidates we have:

--Margaery and Cersei obviously loathe each other and have been at loggerheads for some time.

--Sansa and Cersei, lots of history between those two.

--Brienne and Cersei, with Jaime in the middle and a twist that the prophecy was about inner beauty not outer which Cersei values.

I'm not talking in circles, I know what i mean. to the READERS Dany is the obvious choice. To Dany it's a personal hatred. But to Cersei there is nothing there.

You clearly arent so indefintely aware seeing as you "can see it going that way" and its already all but happened (literally besides her being dethroned and strangled) in book 4

This isn't a theory that I'm overly invested in. I honestly don't have strong feelings. It can be Dany, it can be Margaery, it can be Brienee, it can Cersei herself. I prefer it's Cersei destroying herself cause that's what Cersei has been doing. If Dany comes in at the end as the replacement, that's fine.

ETA: you want my straight up answer: I think Cersei is in the process of destroying herself and the YMBQ might just be her own warped self image.

[larastone]

You are still assuming she meant another Queen.

It is possible but not certain.

This is an opinion.

Nothing could be more priceless than this. Not to me.

(1) I do not believe it is impossible for it to be another Queen.

(2) You'll still be thinking about this exchange in 2016 when the book is released.... and you will be very satisfied that I was wrong about something I fully accept as a possibility…

I hope you enjoy.

thanks for stating things you do not know as opinions and not fucking facts. it would have been nice if you done that since the beginning.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

like this chick is stating her opinion as a damn fact?? ​

But what she stated was a fact. The prophecy is purposefully worded in an ambiguous way so saying what you've been saying:

Maggy is most certainly talking about another queen replacing Cersei.

is not a fact. It's an interpretation. You say so yourself:

considering the question that Cersei asks, the context and semantics.

Those words mean it is implied and not clearly stated.

And to answer your next point:

I don't understand why that's such a folly.

It IS a folly to say the timing was not considered but this is really how it will play out if you look at the end game. The timing has to work. I think you'd find more people accepting of your theory if you just said this is how you'd like it to play out rather than saying anything in the text is pointing or foreshadowing it. In fact, stressing that you're not concerned about the details just the end game makes it very easy to poke at your theory as anything other than a wish.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

thanks for stating things you do not know as opinions and not fucking facts. it would have been nice if you done that since the beginning.

Stay classy.

ETA: Also, what Pounce FTW said. You can't just wave off pretty important details like timing and logistics and expect people not to punch holes in your ideas.

[oursisthefury69]

ETA: you want my straight up answer: I think Cersei is in the process of destroying herself and the YMBQ might just be her own warped self image.

Process of? Define imprisonment, pending trial, and walk of shame that she hasnt already? And her own warped self image is where this ll end.

Concluding the younger more beautiful woman is "her (cersies) own warped self image" = Premise to South Parks Scrotie McBoogerballs

[BearQueen87]

Curiosity: have people ruled out Arianne for a reason? If she marries Aegon she'd be Queen if they took the IT.

While I don't think Arianne is likely to be the YMBQ, she could be another candidate.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Curiosity: have people ruled out Arianne for a reason? If she marries Aegon she'd be Queen if they took the IT.

While I don't think Arianne is likely to be the YMBQ, she could be another candidate.

I've definitely seen people mention Arianne. She just doesn't get as much consideration as Sansa, Brienne, Dany, etc. Can't really say why, expect perhaps that she isn't as "flashy" as Dany or as personally entwined with Cersei as Brienne and Sansa.

[larastone]

The problem with focusing on the "endgame" at the expense of "timing and details" is that without rational timing and details that make sense, you also wind up with an "endgame" that doesn't make much sense.

Considering that Aegon has already taken Storm's End and that Dany is still out in the middle of nowhere, not even in the proximity of Meereen (read: she's not leaving Essos any time soon), Aegon would have to be sitting on his ass for a long time in for Dany to still beat him to the punch. And if it takes Aegon that much time, when he's already there and already building up an army and support, why do you apparently think Dany will stroll into King's Landing as soon as she lands? Why wouldn't it also take her some time to consolidate forces? However you slice it, Aegon has a substantial lead over Dany when it comes to taking the capital.

I'm very well aware of that, but the details and timings are hard to come up with because thats probably where GRRM is going to throw in the twists, thats why I don't focus on them. GRRM also does this while writing btw, he has said this:

I know what’s going to happen to the main characters anyway, there’s a few secondary characters that I’m still trying to figure out should they live, should they die? But will they wind up with the main characters, I’ve known for a decade.”

So even he tends to think about endgames and the big picture first. That's all there is to it.

But what she stated was a fact. The prophecy is purposefully worded in an ambiguous way so saying what you've been saying:

is not a fact. It's an interpretation. You say so yourself:

Those words mean it is implied and not clearly stated.

And to answer your next point:

It IS a folly to say the timing was not considered but this is really how it will play out if you look at the end game. The timing has to work. I think you'd find more people accepting of your theory if you just said this is how you'd like it to play out rather than saying anything in the text is pointing or foreshadowing it. In fact, stressing that you're not concerned about the details just the end game makes it very easy to poke at your theory as anything other than a wish.

She didn't word it that way though. If she had said that, then I would have no problem with her. This is what she said:

This prophesy does not actually state what you believe it means.

thats not her leaving room for interpretation, but saying that someone's blatantly wrong because they don't agree with her interpretation which is not something that I can tolerate, thats not an open discussion. she didn't say that "it's possible that the prophecy could have meaning thats different from a Queen replacing Cersei"......no she said the above quote, which is stating her opinion as a fact

Stay classy.

ETA: Also, what Pounce FTW said. You can't just wave off pretty important details like timing and logistics and expect people not to punch holes in your ideas.

meh, this post lost its class a long time ago

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

<snip>

I don't see GRRM saying anything in that quote suggesting that it isn't more logical to guess that Aegon will beat Dany to the capital. The endgame may be up in the air, but it still needs to make sense as it unfolds. And for the time being, it doesn't make sense for Dany to somehow beat Aegon to King's Landing when he's already on Westerosi soil and she's half the world away.

The prophecy doesn't necessarily say that it must be a queen. So by that token, if you think it does necessarily say that it must be a queen, then, factually, it doesn't say what you think it does. Which is what she said: She says it could very well be a queen but that it doesn't have to be.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Quote

This prophesy does not actually state what you believe it means.

thats not her leaving room for interpretation, but saying that someone's blatantly wrong because they don't agree with her interpretation which is not something that I can tolerate, thats not an open discussion. she didn't say that "it's possible that the prophecy could have meaning thats different from a Queen replacing Cersei"......no she said the above quote, which is stating her opinion as a fact

"The prophecy does not actually state what you believe it means" is true, though, and it's the same thing as saying what I said but shorter. You are saying it definitely says one thing and others are explaining that it doesn't definitely say that at all.

[sapphire_lion]

like this chick is stating her opinion as a damn fact?? :bs:​

Maggy literally never says another Queen. You may believe that she meant another Queen. You may believe your interpretation is supported by the context (and there is no way it could be a non-Queen). But that is different from what Maggy actually said.

when she doesn't know shit herself. how dare she tell me that I'm wrong when she's just another nobody fan in this huge fandom. If someone's going to tell me that I'm wrong, its certainly not going to be another fan. :rolleyes:

I've been building an argument supporting what I think will happen just like anyone else on this board.

I do not believe you are right (which is my opinion). However, I've never claimed that it was impossible for you to be right (you could be). I've simply claimed that it was possible for you to be wrong (and you could be).

[sapphire_lion]

thanks for stating things you do not know as opinions and not fucking facts. it would have been nice if you done that since the beginning.

I've used words such as "perhaps" and "might be" and "it is possible" and "that's my interpretation"

several times in my posts. You might have missed them if you were having a rage read. :dunno:

[larastone]

I've used words such as "perhaps" and "might be" and "it is possible" and "that's my interpretation"

several times in my posts. You might have missed them if you were having a rage read. :dunno:

this is what you said in your original post to me, there are no "perhaps", "it is possible" and "thats my interpretation" here:

The prophesy seems straightforward because you are able to identify some events that have already happened and place them within the context of what Maggy foretold. But it’s not that easy. This prophesy does not actually state what you believe it means. Your interpretation is predicated on several assumptions. It is possible for some (if not all) of these assumptions to be unwarranted. Hence the ambiguity. lol.

i'm sorry if i misinterpreted you and you were only saying opinions but it does not come across that way in your post at all.

either way, lets just agree to disagree at this point.