Tynned Lannistark Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Depends on what she does instead.Does she go back to winterfell? does she send a raven to Ned to inform him Tyrion is coming? In any case, Ned is not attacked by Jaime, Tywin doesn't launch an attach on the riverlands. Ned doesn't send Beric to capture the mountain.Tyrion doesn't meet Bron and the mountain clans. Maybe he is not even set as hand of the king replacement by Tywin. Does Ned leave KL? not sure. Most like he still wants to tell Robert still, in which case he still warns Cersei and gets executed. LF lies are probably not noticed. War still starts, but having no Tyrion as hand means no Tyrell alliance, (it was his idea) , no wildfire trap. Either Stannis takes KL or Tywin saves the day but without an easy victory and his army pays a high price. Might have changed the course of the war a bit. The other option is that Ned does leave KL as he planned without saying anything to Robert which means the war doesnt start they that it does until LF or Varys find another way to start it. Starks might be in a better situation this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Poor, poor Sansa. :mellow: Well, if she hadn't blurted that Joffrey wasn't like his father, Ned wouldn't have realized about the incest in time, wouldn't have tried to crown Stannis, wouldn't have died and, likely, would have been sent North while Tywin turned south instead of into the Riverlands to take his part in the Dance of the Stags. So yes, it's all Sansa's fault. She doesn't know when to keep her mouth shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Things could change dramatically. Without his injury Ned might manage to warn Robert on time. Lying on a bed for a long time sucks. If Ned's political score was a ten (out of 30 max or something) his injury put it as a 0. I think it can be underestimated how much harm it does for Ned to do nothing for long periods of time and to wake having to react to all other players doing plenty. Especially when timing is crucial and getting to Robert first is important. On the other hand Cersei might not particularly care about Tyrion but he is still a hostage. Also, Tywin might not send Tyrion to king's landing if he doesn't show capability of escaping, he doesn't have his mountain savages. Finally there is the issue of Littlefinger having it against Ned and trying to pretend to be Ned's ally. If Ned still loses and things have been butterflied so that the Starks don't have Jaime as a hostage things could be worse for Sansa as captive. And of course this also change the dynamics in the war in the riverlands and how it would unfold. Which could change the future of Edmure, Robb and Catelyn. I expect big changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetad Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well, I suppose it would all depend on where Tyrion went after the crossroads. If he arrives in KL before Ned has figured out the truth presumably Ned would demand that he be arrested and put on a public trial - something that LF would be desperate to avoid in vasr the truth came out. A dead Tyrion and framed Ned seems like a possibility. If he goes back to Casterley Rock then the main difference will be that when Ned figures out the truth, he will still have his health and all his household guards, and Tywin will not already be mobilised for war and raiding into the Riverlands. Littlefinger could certainly still provoke a war, but he would have to work harder and Ned would have to make even more errors of judgement.The other side is that Cat will be at winterfell and able to give Robb advice on how to react to any events in the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H0X0 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 *snip* At which point Littlefinger is hosed. As we learn later, Robert is familiar with the dagger in question, and knows who won it from whom betting on whom. *snip*Wait. So littlefinger's elaborate plan hinges on an incredibly unlikely coincidence? And if Tyrion stays at the wall one extra day or wanders off to see old songs or something, littlefinger has hung himself? Doesn't seem like a schememaester move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilldara Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Had to have a quick flick through the books and a look at the timeline spreadsheet. The Ned gets out of King's Landing on a ship to Dragonstone before Tyrion and Yoren arrive. In the correct timeline Yoren arrives at KL a day before Ned resigns after nearly killing his horse. If Yoren, Tyrion et al are in no hurry, they would be several days later. By the time they arrive, Vayon Poole will have organised the "swift and safe" ship for Ned. The longer term fall out then, assuming Cersei still knocks off Bob, is a three way war with the Crownlands and the West behind Joffrey, the North, the Riverlands and some Stormlords behind Stannis and the Reach and some Stormlords behind Renly. Perhaps with Ned on board, Stannis might concentrate on Kl first rather than Renly? Edit: And there's still plenty of chaos for LF to try to elevate himself in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Had to have a quick flick through the books and a look at the timeline spreadsheet. The Ned gets out of King's Landing on a ship to Dragonstone before Tyrion and Yoren arrive. In the correct timeline Yoren arrives at KL a day before Ned resigns after nearly killing his horse. If Yoren, Tyrion et al are in no hurry, they would be several days later. By the time they arrive, Vayon Poole will have organised the "swift and safe" ship for Ned. The longer term fall out then, assuming Cersei still knocks off Bob, is a three way war with the Crownlands and the West behind Joffrey, the North, the Riverlands and some Stormlords behind Stannis and the Reach and some Stormlords behind Renly. Perhaps with Ned on board, Stannis might concentrate on Kl first rather than Renly? Edit: And there's still plenty of chaos for LF to try to elevate himself in. If Ned leaves without finding out about the incest, which may or may not happen if he leaves quickly, the North would declare for Joffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilldara Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 If Ned leaves without finding out about the incest, which may or may not happen if he leaves quickly, the North would declare for Joffrey Before he went to the brothel he had already decided to go to Dragonstone to speak to Stannis and had asked Vayon Poole to organise a ship for him discreetly. This was before he knew about the twincest but Stannis would have told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitron Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Wait. So littlefinger's elaborate plan hinges on an incredibly unlikely coincidence? And if Tyrion stays at the wall one extra day or wanders off to see old songs or something, littlefinger has hung himself? Doesn't seem like a schememaester move. I think maybe LF should come in for some of the "plot armor" scorn, unless, as has been suggested, he could be sure of intercepting and killing Tyrion before Tyrion gets to KL and Tyrion and Ned and Robert all get together to discuss the dagger. Even if he does get Tyrion eliminated first, if Ned should mention the dagger to Robert, Littlefinger's lie comes out. Knowing Cersei is out to kill Robert is one thing, being sure she'll succeed in time to prevent that conversation is quite another. And the interesting thing is, if LF had told the truth about the dagger ("Last time I saw it, King Robert had it, and was teasing Jaime about it winning it on a bet against him."), he still stirs up all kinds of "stuff", especially if someone figures out that Joffrey lifted it from Robert's rolling arsenal. Ned and Bob aren't good enough friends for Ned to say "Well, nobody important died, so we'll just forget your son tried to have mine killed, and I'm sure that, when the time comes, and Joffrey succeeds you to the throne, Bran and his siblings won't have any problem swearing fealty to him." Either way, LF gets chaos, but I guess his personal motto is "Never tell the truth when a lie will do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The longer term fall out then, assuming Cersei still knocks off Bob, is a three way war with the Crownlands and the West behind Joffrey, the North, the Riverlands and some Stormlords behind Stannis and the Reach and some Stormlords behind Renly. Perhaps with Ned on board, Stannis might concentrate on Kl first rather than Renly? Why would Ned and the Riverlands fight with a rebel against Robert's son? If Ned leaves earlier that means he never discovers the twincest and thus has no reason to support Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilldara Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Why would Ned and the Riverlands fight with a rebel against Robert's son? If Ned leaves earlier that means he never discovers the twincest and thus has no reason to support Stannis. Ned's plan before he got attacked by Jamie was to leave KL by ship and to stop at Draganstone to speak with Stannis. Stannis already knew and would have told him and so Ned would have thrown his lot in with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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