Oldtown and Alexandria, hints inside?

[Waters Gate]

Ancient Alexandria, the city founded by Alexander the great during his conquest at the mouth of the nile delta which would become one of the ancient metrolpoles of the world, had a few distinct landmarks, wonders even.

The great library of Alexandria: This was the great center of scholarship of it's time. A place of knowledge, tutorship and science. People from all over the world would come to study there.

The Pharos of Alexandria: This was a hughe lighthouse, sitting on an island in front of the harbor of Alexandria

Sounds familiar? Would i be not the only one who finds it intriguing that Oldtown and Alexandria are so simmilar as to have specificly both the greatest center of sholarship and the greatest lighthouse in the world, all not to far from eachother?.

Might it be that Alexandria would be simmilar in other ways to Oldtown?

[BrianBoru]

The Library of Alexandria was famously destroyed by fire. Less famously, it probably suffered several fires.

I wonder if the Citadel will suffer a similar fate?!

[aryagonnakill#2]

The High Septon when Aegon the conqueror landed said that if they opposed Aegon that Oldtown would burn. Perhaps he had the vision wrong and it was if they opposed Dany.

[Waters Gate]

Never smart to concentrate so much knowledge in one place where a disaster could destroy it huh?

Alexandria was also the place where the body of Alexander the great was burried. Maybe there are some interresting grave's to be found in Oldtown.

[Make Shadowbabies Not War]

The High Septon when Aegon the conqueror landed said that if they opposed Aegon that Oldtown would burn. Perhaps he had the vision wrong and it was if they opposed Dany.

I like this idea! Perhaps the vision was right, and Oldtown opposes this Aegon rather than the conqueror? The vision would actually be correct, and Oldtown would be burned for turning Aegon away.

[ser Dagonet]

Also, Rhodos was an island city which was a maritime, commercial and cultural center, allegedly with the great bronze colossus towering over the entrance to its harbour, that sound familiar?

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Great catch OP, the inspiration must be there. Never thought of that because, I suppose, Oldtown's settlement is lost to (ASOIAF) history while Alexandria was founded in relatively recent (real) historical times.

But now, you made me fear for Sarella's fate... she might be exposed and, paralelling her Night's Watch legendary counterpart Danny Flint, face a death similar to Hypatia's (with the rise of sparrows possibly creating a similar political climate to Alexandria's in Hypatia's era).

Let's hope I'm just being irrational :).

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Also, Rhodos was an island city which was a maritime, commercial and cultural center, allegedly with the great bronze colossus towering over the entrance to its harbour, that sound familiar?

Yes. The Titan of Braavos.

[Waters Gate]

Also there are sphinxes in Oldtown, as in Alexandria.

Also, Rhodos was an island city which was a maritime, commercial and cultural center, allegedly with the great bronze colossus towering over the entrance to its harbour, that sound familiar?

Afcourse, but i don't see what it so much has to do with this thread.

[Waters Gate]

Aso, the idea of Alexander the Great's tomb made me think about the sturcture upon which the hightower sits.

Could it be that this black construction was meant to be a tomb? Actually wouldn't be too uncomon for a big and ancient construction to have served as a Tomb.

And to think that these things tend to have mazes inside. Tombs usually come with mazes inside. Could it be that the Mazemakers really were tombmakers?

[Waters Gate]

Adding more to this:

-first of all a impression made by another person in context of this: Sarella=Hypatia

But now, you made me fear for Sarella's fate... she might be exposed and, paralelling her Night's Watch legendary counterpart Danny Flint, face a death similar to Hypatia's (with the rise of sparrows possibly creating a similar political climate to Alexandria's in Hypatia's era).

And you made that reference aswell, withought me noticing it first. Sry, and well spotted by the way. Are there more ways we can connect sarella to Hypathia beyond the idea of being a female scholar?

Second, indeed i have taken the impression that the hightowers base is really a tomb simmilar to how Egyptians would build it. Besides the maze inside, the fact that the whole outer side is nicely smoothed is also something typical for such tombs, although the outer layer of a pyramids would tend to wear off faster over the millenia.

And then by extension i though, well that would make Asshai a city of tombs. And that actually connects on many levels with whats happening in Asshai. It seems like a good necropolis if one consider that it seems not to far from what appears to be the underworld, and conencted to it by the river stygia no less. (Styx?) I wonder if the dea dlike to walk ghost grass. Ad it gives some explenation to what the shadowbinders are seeking there. Given the size and scope of the Necropolis that would be asshai, likely it's filled with tombs of great people of history like emperors and therefore there might also be quite a lot of treasury lingering around. So i think the Shadowbinders seek knowledge but also safe passageways trough the toms to treasure, which gives them the gold and gems (albeits sometimes "cursed") with which they import food and water.

[ser Dagonet]

Afcourse, but i don't see what it so much has to do with this thread.

Simply pointing out that there are more, this is not unique in being inspired by ancient cities

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Are there more ways we can connect sarella to Hypathia beyond the idea of being a female scholar?

Not really, except that Hypatia was (falsely) accused of delving into magic while Sarella is in Marwin's "the mage" inner circle.

Also a notable difference is that Hypatia was not hiding her sex.

But, the interconnected parallels and analogies are what bother me most. It's not Hypatia alone, it's that Sarella is to the Citadel what Danny Flint was to the NW, that the official policy of the Citadel is anti-magic, that septons are most likely anti-magic too, that they are in the rise and that Oldtown is an important center of the Faith...

[Waters Gate]

Not really, except that Hypatia was (falsely) accused of delving into magic while Sarella is in Marwin's "the mage" inner circle.

Also a notable difference is that Hypatia was not hiding her sex.

But, the interconnected parallels and analogies are what bother me most. It's not Hypatia alone, it's that Sarella is to the Citadel what Danny Flint was to the NW, that the official policy of the Citadel is anti-magic, that septons are most likely anti-magic too, that they are in the rise and that Oldtown is an important center of the Faith...

I see, you expect/fear that Sarella's hidden gender will become known at a certain point and will create upheavel within the citadel? And i can understand how you see the situation in the citadel as a bit of a powderkeg waiting to go off.

Simply pointing out that there are more, this is not unique in being inspired by ancient cities

ok, you have something of a point and i do get it, and yet i feel that given the many connections and the mysterious history of oldtown with presence for ex. of an ancient advanced oily stone construct lends to believe that there is more to this connection that inspiration for a city alone.

To be frank, there arn't so many city's that you could might be able to so easily connect to a wordly counterpart, and often for that it would be culture, architectural style's and landmarks that matterd. Braavos has mostly cultureal links to Rhodos besides it's collosus, and for most other city's those links would be fairly cultural aswell, less about objects, landmarks/monuments and geographical simmilarity's that would fit so well. You are free to give a list of city's who you you think have a specific worldy counterpart, i'm not sure if you can add many more after Braavos which would look so clear.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I see, you expect/fear that Sarella's hidden gender will become known at a certain point and will create upheavel within the citadel? And i can understand how you see the situation in the citadel as a bit of a powderkeg waiting to go off.

Well, I had never thought of any of this before, so I don't really have any settled ideas on the matter. But I do see the possibility and yes, I believe that, if her "game" is exposed it could create upheaval or, more likely, be used as a pretext to act against her, the real reason being the political conflict between the fractions.

But I hope none of this ever happens, I like Sarella...

[Waters Gate]

There are several ways i can work from the comparison to Alexandria. As many have noted an for ex. alluded to me with the precedent of the Sarnori Library going up in flames, the comparison might serve as hints to events that could happen in Oldtown and probably would be of a dramatic nature obviously like the Citadel being burned down or the Hightower collapsing from an earthquake.

Well, I had never thought of any of this before, so I don't really have any settled ideas on the matter. But I do see the possibility and yes, I believe that, if her "game" is exposed it could create upheaval or, more likely, be used as a pretext to act against her, the real reason being the political conflict between the fractions.

Indeed, and let me go a bit in detail on those possible fractions and how things might play out in that regard. First of all within the citadel you seem to have the more conservative type's and the more progressive types, and by the nature of having some progressive maesters seeming unhappy with the leadership of the citadel, i presume that the leadership of the citadel is mainly a conservative one iwth some stark views regarding certain mattersand who likely would feel more troubled by having female's in the citadel.

Besies that, there is the faith and the rising influence i guess of the faith millitant and conservative religious views. The faith of the 7 is rather patriarchal and moralistic on the role of women and such things as sanctity of marriage and fidelity or abstinance for those who took vows for that in the name of the 7.

In itself, i think if Sarella would be uncovered fairly soon then i think it would remain much an internal matter for the citadel. it would create a bit of a scandal and conflict, but i doubt it would go so much out of hand that the citadel might brun over it.

However, Sarella might be too smart for her own good. She deffinatly seems brilliant, which makes her compare well to Hypathia. She might become somewhat prominent and/or even controversial before the truth about her gender gets uncovered. but what might be worse is if there would be some highly controversial incident that would go squarly against the principle's of both the Citadel and the faith as to create a scandal that goes even beyond the citadel. I guess some act of intercourse of a highly controversial nature could trigger a far larger outcry that would not remain within the citadel's walls. Knowing how the faith treats women who cross the line by their narrow moralist views, you'd think that Sarella would have some things to fear for if she was uncovered to be a female at the Citadel and involved in some sexual scandal there. It might maybe come to a point where certain maesters/acolyte's would try to protect her at the citadel, only to see the place stormed by the faith millitant so hat they could take Sarella with them to judge her.

it seems also apt for the comparison to have the faith militant do these things, in their fanatical dogma's they actually compare well to the Christians that murdered hypathia.

And i wouldn't tell GRRM to much that you like Sarella. ;)

[Endymion I Targaryen]

A mixture of Alexandria and Ephesus.The Starry Sept reminds me of the well known temple of Artemis in Ephesus.Then Pharos = Hightower and Citadel = Library.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

And i wouldn't tell GRRM to much that you like Sarella. ;)

You can keep a secret, I hope? :)

[Waters Gate]

A mixture of Alexandria and Ephesus.The Starry Sept reminds me of the well known temple of Artemis in Ephesus.Then Pharos = Hightower and Citadel = Library.

Interresting. How does the temple of artemis compare to the discription of the Starry sept?

Also, when thinking of more ancient wonders ... high garden = hanging gardens?

indeed isn't Highgarden build on a hill, having gardens at various heights in it's outher rings?

Indeed, there is this:

"The tiered-walled castle has groves and fountains"

Fountains huh? So you kinda need to put water under pressure to get that. Now i never looked upon that detail, but indeed fountains are a bit of a special thing to have, indicative of certain waterworks.

[Sword of the Morgan]

The High Septon when Aegon the conqueror landed said that if they opposed Aegon that Oldtown would burn. Perhaps he had the vision wrong and it was if they opposed Dany.

Interesting!