Tysha as Tywin's Moral Event Horizon?

[Chinoiserie]

Short answer would be yes.

For the long answer... Well Tywin is quite interesting character in my opinion. He reminds me of many ruthless historical characters were you could endlessly depate about te justifications and motives neve to reach an answer all would agree with. There are many alternate inteprations in the fandom, I believe in the asoiaf world itself if you analyse how peopel react to him enough. Tywin is one of those characters I think POV would be a disservise since it is more fasinating to analyse him (even if I peronally would like one since I am a great fan of the character). I can only hope GRRM has thought his character enough that he knows the answers to some of out questions instead of making his character a rather realistic plot device. I would like to know GRRM to tell his own opinion for this question someday.

My intepration of Tywin is that at point point, even after the Raynes he was the man Tywin apologists and Kevan believe he was. Kevan knew everything Tywin did during his years, even not his motivations since Tywin did not share his thoughts. Kevan is hardly a perfect person nor unbiased one, but he is intelligent and has honor. Since he is so informend of Tywin's actions I think his opinion of Tywin being "a harsh man but not harsher he needed to be" (think is from my memory) was once true of Tywin's character. Kevan just did not really notice how much Tywin had changed (I think he was in denial the way Tywin was about the twins behaviour since that was the way Kevan could deal with his brother).

There is no evidence that Tywin did anything truly morally unforgivable between the Raynes and Robert's rebellion, he was just a harsh politician. For excample Tytos's mistress was walked in the streets but based on the later actions of sparrows and true medeval treatment I do not think walked naked on streets was punishment only for women but for men as well. And she might have been tryly guilty of stealing. In any case not a moral event horisont in my opinion nor something really out of ordinary in this society or without reason. If Tywin thought she was guilty of stealing in addition of shaming the Lannisters the punishment was not that harsh. There is a lot of speculation of Tywin doing things like mudering his father or poisoning the royal children but I think they are more based on what he could be later be cabable of doing, not based on evidence. And even if Tywin would be even during that period be willing to do such things sceming behind the scenes is not really is character. The Red Wedding was from his perspective a goverment giving its allies a pardon for their actions that were nessecary for peace, not some scheming behind the scenes. I think he dislikes that kind of behaviour since he is lawfull evil.

But I believe Tywin truly changed after years due to the way Aerys treated him and the death of Joanna. I do not think Joanna was some angel that kept Tywin becoming a horrible person but I think her death truly had effect on him. Tysha was Tywin's moral event horisont but only because he did nor have reasons to do anything before. I suppose I could say that the murder of Elia and children was one, but I believe that almost by accident Tywin's actions were something he could have previously done as well. I think by thins point Tywin would have been cabable of ordering the death of Elia and her rape the way Oberyn thinks, but like the forum speculators he is basing this of what Tywin was cabable of now what was likely. I think Tywin did not have a motivation to lie to Tyrion about this nor he was unawere that Elia could be usefull alive. But he certainly would have ordered this if there was gain and he might have been pleased or Gregor's actions as well. So Tywin's lack of ordered does not make him any better person. I just do not think we have enough facts to say he did so this is my opinion of the events. So he avoids a moral event horisont for being to occupied with the sack. If he had more time to think he might have savored the revenge more. I could however still see how this could be said to be his moral event horisont.

But with Tysha it is certain in any case. He had no good motivation for actions. Yes he has motivation but it was not a good one. And yes he would have treated some peasant boy who married Cersei appalingly as well that is something that makes him look any better (well maybe not as mysogynist, I do not think Tywin really hates women. He is just elitist and a consevative like most nobles). I think he would not have treated some peasant girl one of his brothers happened to marry this way, not at this point of his life and certainly not when he was younger. Tysha's treatment was partially result of his hatred for Tyrion.

But we do not know enough of Tywin to say if my opinion is correct or completely out of place. I think it is personally appealing this while he was always a grey character he gradually become more corrupted. As a fan I like speculating him rather than thing he is certainly horrible and if GRRM woulf reveal something to make him seem better person I would be pleased. And I still do not think he is entirely black nor do I think he would have been completely beyond redemption (I do not think anyone is).

[Marcel]

There are blows that hit the flesh and there are blows that hit the soul. The public humiliation of Tytos's mistress or the obliteration of the Reynes and the Tarbecks were cruel acts, not justifiable, but they were acts that can be understood (but not forgiven) for their political content. With Tywin, the power of the Lannisters lies in their wealth and the fear that he inspires. This is distinct, for example, from where the power of House Stark resides. There will be no House Manderly to rescue House Lannister at the end. The punishment for Tysha is problematic because she, after all, is insignificant. Tyrion, in Tywin's eyes, is nsignificant too. Tywin never truly recognized Tyrion as his son, as a Lannister (only when he needed to manipulate Tyrion or use Tyrion's identity as a Lannister as a pretext for political action). Tywin never considered bequeath Casterly Rock to Tyrion, so Tywin could use Tyrion's marriage to Tysha to disinherit him, or force him to choose between his lowborn wife and his identity as a Lannister, like, in some way, Aegon made Duncan choose. That's why I do not accept the explanation that the gang rape of Tysha was also an act politically motivated - an act to deny any legitimacy to any heir who could have been produced in those fortnight when Tyrion lived in happiness. In the eyes of many lords of Westeros, Tyrion wedding would justify Tywin to repudiate him as a son. However, Tywin felt the need to strike a much deeper blow. Why did Tywin punish Tysha? I believe that the act punished is not the wedding itself, she was punished because she sincerely loved Tyrion - Tywin demonstrates in the cruelest way possible the magnitude of her mistake, for her daring to love the dwarf. Tyrion is not only unable to defend her, he participated in her humiliation. Tywin did Tyrion participate in the act. Thereby, Tyrion despises the sincerity of her feelings and leaves her life treating her as a prostitute. This will be the last memory she will have towards him. There is a double betrayal here. Even though Tyrion could not save her from his father's brutality, the choice to not participate in such vile act was entirely his. On the other hand, the punishment for Tyrion seeks to reinforce the contempt Tywin feels for his son, to enhance Tyrion's insignificance - no woman can ever love him if not for his wealth, his position, things that ultimately comes from Tywin. There is nothing in Tyrion, nothing truly his, to be loved. Tywin forces Tyrion to treat Tysha as if she was a prostitute to solidify this lesson. What Tywin did wasn't just for Tysha's complete humiliation and the utter destruction of her spirit. Or to humiliate Tyrion - Tyrion should never have felt more insignificant. Tywin destroyed the relationship between Tyrion and Tysha forever, in a more cruel and complete way than would be possible by simply ordering her execution. There is no redemption for what happened. There is no possible forgiveness. Tyrion can kill Tywin a thousand times, the vile act will never be erased. And Tyrion will never forget or forgive himself . Nor Tysha may forget or forgive him. There are acts that are just sheer evilness.

[Batbob45]

What he did to Tysha bit him in the butt big time and it made zero sense to do what he did. He might be still alive if he just annulled the marriage and send Tysha to be a silent sister or Septa. at least that wouldn't of mess up Tyrion mental state.He could of even send her to Dragonstone to work for Stannis since Tyrion marry her after Robert became king.