A spoon of knife and fork Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Rhaegar's plan A is to have a new child (third dragon head) with the woman he loves at any cost. isn't it? I thought at least this is clear. We don't know: Whether Rhaegar loved Lyanna Whether Lyanna loved Rhaegar Whether Rhaegar wanted a kid with Lyanna at all, and if so, Whether he wanted the kid as a third head (and thus likely a girl) Whether he wanted the kid as the PTWP himself So yeah there's a ton we don't know. Yours is the most popular interpretation but that's all it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I personally think that Rheagar was kind of an idiot, a well educated idiot, but an idiot. I haven't seen one decision of him where I thought, yes that clever and a sound plan. Is it really that much of a stretch that he was overconfident and didn't have a plan B? And why is everybody assuming that Lyanna went and stayed willingly? If Jon is that child, he is younger than Robb. Meaning he was made after the death of Richard and Brandon and after the crown called for Neds head, for no real reason. What would the conservation be like: "You have no problem with hurrying up these whole baby making thing, right? I have war to fight and your other brother to kill." "Oh sure no biggie." Or what did he promised her at the beginning: "Hey, I see your have a problem with Robert, for having a bastard and sleeping outside of the marriage bed. You wouldn't have a problem with running away with a married man, yes? I already have a wife so you could be only secondary queen and I have a son and heir already. So it's unlikely for your son to be king. But I could totally marry a daughter of us to my son, her brother. Ok I would marry my other daughter from the other wife to him to. So even then is only a 50% chance that your incestuous grandchild would be king." "Sounds fantastic. Let's do it." The prime evidence that Lyanna was willing is that Ned doesn't completely loath Rhaegar. It's a little bit strange how in all of Ned's POV chapters, he hardly thinks about Rhaegar, considering how he started the war that shaped Ned's life. But it would be way weirder if Rhaegar had actually raped his sister. Like at the beginning of the books, when Robert is crying to Ned about Rhaegar taking Lyana away, Ned doesn't really react internally the way someone would if they were talking about his sister getting raped. There is definitely something going on there. Lyana must have known something, or Rhaegar must have convinced her of something, in order for her to go along. And we don't know what yet. But it doesn't look like a rape. Not in Ned's mind at least. Ned is the only one besides Howland Reed who knows what happened at the Tower of Joy, and we haven't met Howland Reed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 At this point, I'm picturing Rhaegar as Jimmy James, and half of this forum as Matthew, and therefore I can only think of Planbee as Andrea, the efficiency expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The prime evidence that Lyanna was willing is that Ned doesn't completely loath Rhaegar. It's a little bit strange how in all of Ned's POV chapters, he hardly thinks about Rhaegar, considering how he started the war that shaped Ned's life. But it would be way weirder if Rhaegar had actually raped his sister. Like at the beginning of the books, when Robert is crying to Ned about Rhaegar taking Lyana away, Ned doesn't really react internally the way someone would if they were talking about his sister getting raped. There is definitely something going on there. Lyana must have known something, or Rhaegar must have convinced her of something, in order for her to go along. And we don't know what yet. But it doesn't look like a rape. Not in Ned's mind at least. Ned is the only one besides Howland Reed who knows what happened at the Tower of Joy, and we haven't met Howland Reed yet. Honestly i also found it very weird that he did not even think about Rhaegar in so many years. It is Rhaegar who indirectly caused the death of his father, brother and sister. Also death of thousands of other people. Even his sister was totally willing to go with Rhaegar, he should still dislike Rhaegar, right? I think GRRM made all the characters sang high praise for Rhaegar in order to make his story more confusing and controversial, but he overstretched it a little bit. At least some people should think Rhaegar was irresponsible and irrational, especially those who lost their family in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinny Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The prime evidence that Lyanna was willing is that Ned doesn't completely loath Rhaegar. It's a little bit strange how in all of Ned's POV chapters, he hardly thinks about Rhaegar, considering how he started the war that shaped Ned's life. But it would be way weirder if Rhaegar had actually raped his sister. Like at the beginning of the books, when Robert is crying to Ned about Rhaegar taking Lyana away, Ned doesn't really react internally the way someone would if they were talking about his sister getting raped. There is definitely something going on there. Lyana must have known something, or Rhaegar must have convinced her of something, in order for her to go along. And we don't know what yet. But it doesn't look like a rape. Not in Ned's mind at least. Ned is the only one besides Howland Reed who knows what happened at the Tower of Joy, and we haven't met Howland Reed yet. Maybe she just didn't have time to tell Ned, she was dying and accounting to the R+L=J theory her last thoughts were for her son. Ned didn't know and it was easier for him not to think about or he tried to tell himself that it was ok, that nothing against her will happened because he couldn't handle it anymore. He was a very young man you just lost most of his family in a very traumatic way. He went to war, which isn't very healthy to one psyche. He could have just banish all thoughts about Jons real patents, so he wouldn't turn any hard feelings against the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Maybe she just didn't have time to tell Ned, she was dying and accounting to the R+L=J theory her last thoughts were for her son. Ned didn't know and it was easier for him not to think about or he tried to tell himself that it was ok, that nothing against her will happened because he couldn't handle it anymore. He was a very young man you just lost most of his family in a very traumatic way. He went to war, which isn't very healthy to one psyche. He could have just banish all thoughts about Jons real patents, so he wouldn't turn any hard feelings against the child. You are right. Maybe he just did not want to think about Rhaegar and those pains about his late family. But I guess Lyanna had time to tell Ned that she loved Rhaegar and Rhaegar loved her, something like that. It did not take much time to explain that. Otherwise he would be like Red Viper and felt angry with Rhaegar, although even Lyanna loved him, Ned still had good reason to hate Rhaegar though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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