Is Tyrion the valonqar or Jaime

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

15 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

I do think our reluctance to see Benjen in a negative light is the reason he makes a good suspect!  By 'awakening' the Others I don't mean they were sleeping but that Benjen provides some catalyst for their increasing activity in the area.  Anyway, that's speculation for another post, but yes, I was thinking of Benjen in a Bloodstone Emperor role, and I too think "the" Valonqar is connected to the BSE - the parallel of younger brother betraying and killing older sister is too strong. I just transposed that to the North. 

"The" Valonqar seems a title to me. Why not say "your" valonqar if it's one of Cersei's brothers?  It's like this story is already being mythologized in Maggy's vision and the importance is not the person but the role. Who will wear the mask of The Valonqar in this play?

You might be right about Benjen, lol. I think my reluctance has more to do with lack of info about him than because I don't think a Stark would ever do such a thing. But I have certainly read a mystery or two where the culprit was the guy in the background the whole time. :-P

I'm totally on the same page with you about the roles and masks. My current thought on allegorical roles is that multiple characters can fulfill an archetype to some degree, but probably one will emerge as fulfilling it more than others by the end of the series--and that one will "wear the mask" as you say. In some cases that's pretty easy--no one's really giving Dany much of a fight for the the primary AE figure (though Sansa's a strong second)--but for others it's a hard call at this point. So Benjen could fulfill the BSE/Valonqar role to some degree, but so far he hasn't tried to usurp anyone or cast down any gods. My sense is that Tyrion is in more of a position to become "The Valonqar", fulfilling the BSE archetype the most. But there's two books left and it's anyone's race. :-P

Of course if you're right and Uncle Benjy has gone over to Team Other and is seeking the destruction of Westeros, well then he will certainly win the Valonqar mask. 

[Lady Barbrey]

19 hours ago, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

You might be right about Benjen, lol. I think my reluctance has more to do with lack of info about him than because I don't think a Stark would ever do such a thing. But I have certainly read a mystery or two where the culprit was the guy in the background the whole time. :-P

I'm totally on the same page with you about the roles and masks. My current thought on allegorical roles is that multiple characters can fulfill an archetype to some degree, but probably one will emerge as fulfilling it more than others by the end of the series--and that one will "wear the mask" as you say. In some cases that's pretty easy--no one's really giving Dany much of a fight for the the primary AE figure (though Sansa's a strong second)--but for others it's a hard call at this point. So Benjen could fulfill the BSE/Valonqar role to some degree, but so far he hasn't tried to usurp anyone or cast down any gods. My sense is that Tyrion is in more of a position to become "The Valonqar", fulfilling the BSE archetype the most. But there's two books left and it's anyone's race. :-P

Of course if you're right and Uncle Benjy has gone over to Team Other and is seeking the destruction of Westeros, well then he will certainly win the Valonqar mask. 

I love what you say here about various characters filling an archetype but one filling it more than the others. There are so many echoes of the same archetype going on. That description fits it beautifully. 

It also makes me think of Arya. She could literally wear The Valonqar mask as Jaime or Tyrion (though Ive wondered if she has to be similar in size). But theyd have to be dead so I hope not. I want them both to make it to the end. 

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

4 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

I love what you say here about various characters filling an archetype but one filling it more than the others. There are so many echoes of the same archetype going on. That description fits it beautifully. 

It also makes me think of Arya. She could literally wear The Valonqar mask as Jaime or Tyrion (though Ive wondered if she has to be similar in size). But theyd have to be dead so I hope not. I want them both to make it to the end. 

Thanks! I need to hurry up with those essays.

I do think Tyrion and Jaime have a lot of story left ahead of them. Maybe not until the end but at least through the next book. Arya probably won't have a chance to wear the Valonqar mask for awhile. :-)

[Castellan]

I think Jaime and Tyrion are equally likely at this point. Just because Cersei is convinced its Tyrion and the reader can see it could be Jaime, doesn't mean it will be Jaime. Its a sufficient twist that its clear that until Tywin and Cersei between them drove him over the edge, Tyrion would not have betrayed his family. If Tyrion does it, Cersei has made it come true through her paranoia.