Yucef Menaerys

Yes Yes.

@Megorova I have to admit you have made some very convincing points in this thread, I'm onboard with your viewpoint and think Jon is AA not Dany as I had previously thought.

A new Preston Jacobs convert Quentyn Martell is deader than dead. Case closed.

I completely agree, it's extremely weird that any Targaryen wouldn't have a dragon, I assume that would be the number one priority for any Targ kid, a lot of people try to bring up the story of Vaegon the dragonless to claim that this is proof that not all Targaryens had the magical ability to ride dragons kinda like squibs in Harry Potter, this is a ridiculous idea IMO I think every Targaryen could ride dragons if they wanted, so the story of Vaegon the dragonless is completely non-sensical except if maybe he just decided he doesn't want to have any dragon which would be queer but possible.

I was speaking more in a general sense and in the context of the Targaryens at the time of the conquest not the later targaryens who became beneficiaries to what Aegon and his sisters achieved. And those kings you mentioned would not have been able to do what they did were it not for Aegon and his conquest. What you say is also not the entire truth, for example I don't think Aegon became king ONLY because he wanted to make the lives of the smallfolk better, that may just be part of the reason but surely not the the sole reason, he also wanted the power and prestige of being king.

I admit the concept has its flaws, but the important thing to highlight is that a person found to be insane before becoming king must be stopped, and how to deal with a king who became mad only after in his life and after being king? As to that I have no concrete solution but the best I can come up with is that the king should not be deposed but rather a regency should be set that would take power from the king, he's still king in the literal since but a figurehead is really all he is, that would eliminate the problem of having two kings or lords declaring for the former king etc since he's still the 'king'. I would also like to point out that it is very, very rare for Targaryen madness to afflict someone only later in his life, usually it happens from the onset and a person can be known to not be well from his childhood, if I'm not mistaken Aerys is the only case of a targaryen we have who was normal before but became mad later, most of the mad targaryens we see already exhibit their behaviour as kids. So it would be less likely that there would be a king in the future who will became mad only in the later stages of his life, that removes the whole problem of having to depose him or impose a regency on him. And I would like to mention what what triggered Aerys madness was because of his captivity during the defiance of duskendale, before that he was just a normal person who wanted to do great things to the realm and be remembered as a wise king in the future. I'm saying all this to stress that it is very rare for targaryens to become mad only in the later stages of their lives.

There's a way to lessen the effects of crazy Targaryens eventually taking the throne, and I hope dany implements it when she finally takes the throne, the way is that strong laws should be enacted that any Targaryen found to be insane will be barred forever from becoming king and if he wasn't mad initially (a la Aerys II) and became mad later, he must also swiftly be removed from power. If Dany doesn't do something similar it will be the ruin of House Targaryen, all it would take is for another future crazy Targaryen monarch that will commit atrocities and unite the realm in rebellion against him, basically RR 2.0 Aegon I might have purer valyrian blood than current Targaryens but the important thing is they also still have the special magical blood, it hasn't disappeared, I don't care whether their blood has been diluted by outside marriages or to how much extent it's been diluted as long as they still retain the magical dragonlord blood, that's all that matters, that's why the Targaryens are different from other Essos valyrians, that's what makes them unique. The incest was necessary, without it the Targaryens would have been goners long ago, without it they couldn't ride dragons. Might I ask what more things you think the Targaryens should have achieved? They united the seven kingdoms thereby curtailing the constant state of anarchy that Westeros was in, they abolished the lords right to the first night, built roads thar connected the realm and made it easier for travel and trade, punished rebel lords who went out of the kings peace, Aegon V created reforms designed to make the life of the smallfolk better, installed a higher authority to which every lord no matter how powerful was answerable to, provided the north with food during particularly harsh winters et cetera

It was certainly less harmful than before the conquest when there was always a Kingdom in war with another, imagine what terrible atrocities would have been committed especially since their was no high king that could bring perpetrators to justice like how Ned Stark acting in stead of the king ordered Tywin Lannister to come to court and answer for the crimes of his bannerman Gregor Clegane and then dispatching forces to bring Cleagane to justice after he started slaughtering and butchering smallfolk in the riverlands. These kind of instances/incidents are what makes the system of the Targaryens better for the smallfolk. Why would they implement democracy after having conquered the kingdoms with fire and blood at a terrible cost even for them( death of Rhaenys)? I'm not sure the peope even knew what democaracy was. The Targaryens conquered Westeros because they wanted to be the only kings, the most powerful/important house not because they wanted to make the life of the smallfolk better. I'm not even sure if democracy would work at that time in Westeros. Something similar happened in the real world when Simon de Montfort attempted to introduce a crude sort of democratic system in midieval England and it obviously didn't work, the time wasn't right, it's too early for that and too out of the world.

So are you saying that those rulers of volantis are from the 40 dragonlord families of valyria who didn't have any dragons? there's nothing that indicates that, besides i'm sure the valyrians have perfected the art of dragon breeding to the point where they could have surplus dragons, during the time before the dance there were so many surplus dragons that didn't have any riders like sheepstealer, vermithor, silverwing, seasmoke, the cannibal etc So the valyrians are capable of breeding enough dragons for their children. And i have mentioned to you before that if any elite valyrian from volantis or lys had the potential to ride a dragon then they would have because those people are rich enough to buy a real dragon egg. Gyldayn only mentions that it was common among elite dragonlord families not the entire valyrian population, you are just disproving your point as you stated before that incest was common even among the peasant/common valyrians, allow me to quote yourself for you: "Incest was the predominant marriage custom amongst the dragonlords and later among the entire Valyrian elite and population" Do you now concede that point ?

If the rulers of volantis were kin to the dragon lords then that implies that they were also dragonlords which we know is not the case, the author of AWOIAF used the term 'kin' to imply that those people also share thesame ethinicity as the dragonlords ie they're both valyrian And could you refer me to the quote were gyldayn mentions that incest was common/rampant amongst the general valyrian population because I don't seem to remember that being mentioned, I'm not saying it never happened I'm just saying it wasn't as common as you were implying. Even if the Velaryons, Celtigars, Qoherys would've been condemned as abominations by the faith they could've practiced incest before the conquest, we don't get any mention of these house stopping the practice of incest at one point or another.

Robb was an oathbreaker and a hypocrite, he broke his oath which he swore to the freys that he would marry one of them. He defended catelyn and refused to execute her when she unlawfully freed the most valuable prisoner to the starks, any other person would have lost their head for that.

We do not know that the current rulers of volantis were from cadet branches of dragonlord families, nothing in the text indicates that, the rulers of volantis may just be non-dragon riding nobles from valyria like the velaryons, why are you even stating this as fact? What do you mean that typical valyrians do not have silver gold hair and purple eyes? of course they do, they are valyrians are they not? its an ethnicity. Are you suggesting that only dragon riding people can have silver-gold hair and purple eyes? i'm sorry but that is ridiculous, we have seen many average valyrians that have valyrian features and who are not dragonlords, like Lysono Maar. Even the dragonlords themselves initially didn't have any dragons (back when they were shepherds) and they still had silver-gold hair and purple eyes as stated in the world of ice and fire book. Again i have no idea where you are getting these things from, where did you read that the entire valyrian elite and the general population practiced incest? it is clearly stated in the books that only dragonlords practiced incest, and they did it not because they liked it but because it was vital for their ability to control dragons, if they start marrying outside of the dragonlord blood gene pool their descendants might lose the ability to ride dragons. Your claim about the entire valyrian population practicing incest is unsubstantiated and unsupported by the text, i have not seen a single example of its like during my entire read of all ASOIAF novels and AWOIAF. And we also don't have a single example of the non-dragonlord valyrian elites like the vealryons, celtigars, qoherys practicing incest.

Where did you get the notion that the starks don't have their fair share of evil people? classic stark fanboysim. Ever heard of Theon the hungry wolf? Allow me to quote the wiki: "Theon burned a score of Andal villages, killing hundreds and capturing three tower houses and a fortified sept. The king displayed the spiked heads of his victims along his coastline to deter future invaders" It is also possible that the night's king was/is a stark.

The lyseni sex slaves were bred with other common valyrians who mostly likely don't have any dragonlord blood, there's a difference between dragonlord blood and valyrian blood, dragonlord blood is the special magical blood of the nobility of valyria while valyrian blood is just the same as the blood of any other people. I imagine a typical valyrian will have just as much difficulty trying to ride a dragon as a westerosi peasant.

I agree, although I'm not sure about the lyseni having a drop of dragonlord blood, their blood is far too diluted to have retained the magical genes of the valyrian dragonlords, and if they had drops of dragonlord blood the we would see some of them with dragons because I'm sure there are lyseni rich enough to buy a couple of dragon eggs like illyrio did.