Yucef Menaerys

Yes Yes.

Check out this thread of mine I started 3 years back (I can't believe it has been that long!)

It would be super easy to take a city with dragons than taking a kingdom like Dorne, I'm baffled at the people here who think taking the free cities will be difficult for Aegon, he had the entirety of the Westerosi (Dorne excluded) military at his disposal and big dragons. The Tattered Prince indicated he could take Pentos with just one tiny dragon.

@Megorova I have to admit you have made some very convincing points in this thread, I'm onboard with your viewpoint and think Jon is AA not Dany as I had previously thought.

A new Preston Jacobs convert Quentyn Martell is deader than dead. Case closed.

Nothing mad about it, I'd do the same if I were Dany. Treason and rebellion should never go unpunished and she would set a bad precedent if she let the people who deposed House Targaryen and murdered her family go free. House Baratheon should be stripped of all lands, titles and banished from Westeros for life for the crime of rebelling. House Lannister should be removed from power for the sack of Kings Landing and murder of King Aerys, Princes Elia, Rhaenys and Prince Aegon. Casterly Rock should be given to more loyal subjects of the throne or better yet just keep it within House Targaryen, Dany can give it to one of her children if she does have any. I will be a little leaner on House Stark because I believe Rickard was killed unjustly but I have no qualms about the execution of hot-head Brandon who stormed into the Red Keep and threatened to murder the heir to the Iron Throne and Prince of Dragonstone with a bunch of his thugs. Jon Arryn is dead else he would've been executed too for treason. House Tyrell should be rewarded with Storms-end because they stayed loyal and true to the Iron Throne till the bitter end. After this is done Dany should make sure her dragons breed so that her future heirs can be secured and ready to bring the fury of the dragon on all who plot rebellion or treason. No one will think of rebelling for another century.

This is exactly why I had to re-read Words of Radiance before starting Oathbringer. It's definitely the weakest in the series so far, that was a tad disappointing, I did not thimk this would happen to SA since the previous two books were excellent. As to the length, I agree part 1 is mostly filler. There's also a lot of deliberation in the Kholinar scenes it was annoying, he could've written everything in Kholinar arc in half the space he used. 'Nice' is a good description of the ending, nothing exciting though, I'm not even desperate or very eager to read the next book, there's no urge unlike when I finished Words of Radiance or Way of kings. Too much deus ex machina and overpowered characters.

I completely agree, it's extremely weird that any Targaryen wouldn't have a dragon, I assume that would be the number one priority for any Targ kid, a lot of people try to bring up the story of Vaegon the dragonless to claim that this is proof that not all Targaryens had the magical ability to ride dragons kinda like squibs in Harry Potter, this is a ridiculous idea IMO I think every Targaryen could ride dragons if they wanted, so the story of Vaegon the dragonless is completely non-sensical except if maybe he just decided he doesn't want to have any dragon which would be queer but possible.

I was speaking more in a general sense and in the context of the Targaryens at the time of the conquest not the later targaryens who became beneficiaries to what Aegon and his sisters achieved. And those kings you mentioned would not have been able to do what they did were it not for Aegon and his conquest. What you say is also not the entire truth, for example I don't think Aegon became king ONLY because he wanted to make the lives of the smallfolk better, that may just be part of the reason but surely not the the sole reason, he also wanted the power and prestige of being king.

I admit the concept has its flaws, but the important thing to highlight is that a person found to be insane before becoming king must be stopped, and how to deal with a king who became mad only after in his life and after being king? As to that I have no concrete solution but the best I can come up with is that the king should not be deposed but rather a regency should be set that would take power from the king, he's still king in the literal since but a figurehead is really all he is, that would eliminate the problem of having two kings or lords declaring for the former king etc since he's still the 'king'. I would also like to point out that it is very, very rare for Targaryen madness to afflict someone only later in his life, usually it happens from the onset and a person can be known to not be well from his childhood, if I'm not mistaken Aerys is the only case of a targaryen we have who was normal before but became mad later, most of the mad targaryens we see already exhibit their behaviour as kids. So it would be less likely that there would be a king in the future who will became mad only in the later stages of his life, that removes the whole problem of having to depose him or impose a regency on him. And I would like to mention what what triggered Aerys madness was because of his captivity during the defiance of duskendale, before that he was just a normal person who wanted to do great things to the realm and be remembered as a wise king in the future. I'm saying all this to stress that it is very rare for targaryens to become mad only in the later stages of their lives.

There's a way to lessen the effects of crazy Targaryens eventually taking the throne, and I hope dany implements it when she finally takes the throne, the way is that strong laws should be enacted that any Targaryen found to be insane will be barred forever from becoming king and if he wasn't mad initially (a la Aerys II) and became mad later, he must also swiftly be removed from power. If Dany doesn't do something similar it will be the ruin of House Targaryen, all it would take is for another future crazy Targaryen monarch that will commit atrocities and unite the realm in rebellion against him, basically RR 2.0 Aegon I might have purer valyrian blood than current Targaryens but the important thing is they also still have the special magical blood, it hasn't disappeared, I don't care whether their blood has been diluted by outside marriages or to how much extent it's been diluted as long as they still retain the magical dragonlord blood, that's all that matters, that's why the Targaryens are different from other Essos valyrians, that's what makes them unique. The incest was necessary, without it the Targaryens would have been goners long ago, without it they couldn't ride dragons. Might I ask what more things you think the Targaryens should have achieved? They united the seven kingdoms thereby curtailing the constant state of anarchy that Westeros was in, they abolished the lords right to the first night, built roads thar connected the realm and made it easier for travel and trade, punished rebel lords who went out of the kings peace, Aegon V created reforms designed to make the life of the smallfolk better, installed a higher authority to which every lord no matter how powerful was answerable to, provided the north with food during particularly harsh winters et cetera

It was certainly less harmful than before the conquest when there was always a Kingdom in war with another, imagine what terrible atrocities would have been committed especially since their was no high king that could bring perpetrators to justice like how Ned Stark acting in stead of the king ordered Tywin Lannister to come to court and answer for the crimes of his bannerman Gregor Clegane and then dispatching forces to bring Cleagane to justice after he started slaughtering and butchering smallfolk in the riverlands. These kind of instances/incidents are what makes the system of the Targaryens better for the smallfolk. Why would they implement democracy after having conquered the kingdoms with fire and blood at a terrible cost even for them( death of Rhaenys)? I'm not sure the peope even knew what democaracy was. The Targaryens conquered Westeros because they wanted to be the only kings, the most powerful/important house not because they wanted to make the life of the smallfolk better. I'm not even sure if democracy would work at that time in Westeros. Something similar happened in the real world when Simon de Montfort attempted to introduce a crude sort of democratic system in midieval England and it obviously didn't work, the time wasn't right, it's too early for that and too out of the world.

So are you saying that those rulers of volantis are from the 40 dragonlord families of valyria who didn't have any dragons? there's nothing that indicates that, besides i'm sure the valyrians have perfected the art of dragon breeding to the point where they could have surplus dragons, during the time before the dance there were so many surplus dragons that didn't have any riders like sheepstealer, vermithor, silverwing, seasmoke, the cannibal etc So the valyrians are capable of breeding enough dragons for their children. And i have mentioned to you before that if any elite valyrian from volantis or lys had the potential to ride a dragon then they would have because those people are rich enough to buy a real dragon egg. Gyldayn only mentions that it was common among elite dragonlord families not the entire valyrian population, you are just disproving your point as you stated before that incest was common even among the peasant/common valyrians, allow me to quote yourself for you: "Incest was the predominant marriage custom amongst the dragonlords and later among the entire Valyrian elite and population" Do you now concede that point ?

You seem to be over-emphasizing and giving too much importance to PR and how Dany will be percieved in westeros, PR and perceptions are nothing if you have three dragons and a large army, prince daemon was though of as a hot tempered and unstable guy who delighted in cutting off the hands and feet of thieves but men still followed him to battle, Maegor was considered a product of incest and kinslayer but at the beginning of his reign many lords still flocked to him and fought for him. At this point i dont think PR matters anymore besides many people in westeros are even waiting and wishing for the targaryens to come back like the old man that arya meets in harrenhall in CoK And the trainees at the citadel toasting to her On daenerys becoming this fire and blood figure let me just say im glad that daenerys is finally embracing her heritage, im tired of her acting all too weak and succumbing to the slavers demands in ADWD even though she was a targaryen and a dragonlord, she couldn't have taken westeros with that weak attitude, to me the bit about daenerys remembering the dragons and who she is is the best part of her arc in ADWD and i'm glad it happened. Daenerys is no longer barren believe it or not, and MMD did lie to Dany in the past and she betrayed her, it isn't the first time that she'd be lying to her, and even if she wasn't lying, she specified some conditions that will have to be fulfilled before daenerys becomes fertile again, and all of those conditions have come true. Trying to decipher and explain all of this will take too long to type so i will just quote Sunil Kumar's answer from quora ( here's the <a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-Daenerys-Targaryen-barren">source</a> When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,This refers to Quentyn Martell, who was born in Westeros, and as confirmed by Barristan, died after what happened with the dragons. In Essos. In Quaithe's prophecy, he was referred to as the sun's son. When the seas go dry...In her last chapter of ADwD, Dany walks through the Dothraki Sea, and realizes that it's no longer the deep green as she remembered. Winter is coming, and the sea of grass is drying up. ...and mountains blow in the wind like leaves,After Quentyn released the dragons from captivity, they had been wreaking havoc throughout the city of Meereen. Some of the pyramids there, which stood like mountains, have been completely destroyed. Some think that it refers to Gregor Clegane, who is what he is now.When my womb quickens again, and I bear a living child.As Dany finds herself starving in the Dothraki Sea, she forces herself to drink the dirty water in the stream and chew on some berries that she finds to sate her hunger and thirst. That's quickly followed by severe stomach cramps, fever, and haemorrhage. Many believe that she had miscarried. I realize that none of the ingredients of moon tea - tansy and wormwood are asters, pennyroyal is a type of mint - will produce berries, but I still believe that it was those berries (maybe oleander?) that caused the miscarriage. If nothing else, this confirms that it wasn't the bloody flux, the disease that's gripping the city of Meereen. I would take it as the case for her womb quickening again.Now we're left with Dany bearing a living child, and the return of her sun-and-stars. That's a story for another time, but the answer to your question, is no. Dany isn't barren.

Sorry when did dany demonstrate that she can be as destructive and unstable as Maegor? For what it's worth she had her blood in her last chapter which she hadn't had for quite sometime, this is an indication that she's no longer barren, it is sloppy writing for house targaryen to go extinct because danearys is barren, I don't think grrm would do that