Something about Dyanna Dayne

[purple-eyes]

23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I never thought about the whole thing, but you are right: Daeron's daughters would be either the same age or perhaps even older than Princess Daenerys, making it indeed very difficult to explain that Daeron II didn't marry one of his own daughters to Maron Martell instead of his sister.

Houses Dondarrion and Penrose clearly look two insignificant to warrant a marriage to the Prince of Dragonstone and his eldest brother (not to mention the second Penrose-Targaryen marriage involving Princess Elaena and Ronnel Penrose) even if we take into account that Daeron II wanted to make alliances in the Stormlands.

My guess is that closer relations like the Velaryons might have been passed over there in favor of the Dondarrion and Penrose cousins for political reasons.

In light of the age of Baelor Breakspear (same age as Daemon Blackfyre, making him fourteen when Daeron II took the throne) it is very likely that Daeron II made matches for all his son early in his reign. Baelor and Maekar both already had sons of their own when the Blackfyre Rebellion began.

The family tree tells us about the six daughters of Garmund Hightower and Rhaena Targaryen for a reason, and the fact that the Penroses are descended from one of them was effectively confirmed by Ran and Linda during one of their Dunk & Egg videos (they said that Aelinor is Aerys' cousins on the Targaryen side).

Four of them could have married into houses Dondarrion, Penrose, Arryn, and Dayne. The Dayne thing is possibly a little bit difficult but it could have happened during of after Daeron's Conquest. This doesn't have to be the case, of course, but it is certainly a possibility. Daeron II and Mariah later deciding to marry their youngest son to a Dayne cousin of the Targaryens certainly could have been a way to strengthen the bond between the Iron Throne and Dorne.

oh, really? Aelinor is from a hightower daughter?

I thought she was from Princess Elaena. maybe her granddaughter, something like that.

[Lord Varys]

32 minutes ago, Victarion Chainbreaker said:

This is huge, we really could have used this info on the Dayne thread a couple weeks back. If Daynes are a late addition to the Targ family tree, that means George didn't originally intend all the Targ descendants to be possibilities for Sword of the Morning. No more Jon, Brienne, Aegon (if real or a Brightflame,) or Jaime (if Aerys' son.)

So if Edric is too young, Darkstar too malevolent, and Arthur too dead, then who will become the new Sword of the Morning? Perhaps the theories about Ashara having a living child aren't so crazy.

Well, since we don't know how many Daynes actually are at Starfall that is really difficult to say.

But I'm not sure that the idea of having a Dayne-Targaryen match was a late addition. Ran has said that there is a Dayne family tree hidden in George's desk nobody has seen, and just because Maekar's wife became a Dayne doesn't mean George hadn't had an earlier idea how that may have worked.

25 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

oh, really? Aelinor is from a hightower daughter?

I thought she was from Princess Elaena. maybe her granddaughter, something like that.

We know Aelinor Penrose is Aerys' cousin on the Targaryen side of the family, not the Martell side. Since the family tree specifies the children of Ronnel Penrose and Elaena (Robin, Laena, Jocelyn, and Joy) it is clear that she isn't the mother of Aelinor. That wouldn't have fit into the timeline anyway, because we know that Elaena was married to Ronnel Penrose by Daeron II (which means not before 184 AC, when Daeron II took the throne) and Prince Aerys would still have been a young boy close to Baelor in age by this time. He would have been married to a girl 10-12 younger than he was, especially not to a girl which wasn't even born when his father took the throne.

It is much more likely that Ronnel Penrose is a descendant of one of the Hightower daughters, grew up at court with his cousin Prince Daeron befriending him, and was previously married before his friend Daeron II married him to Elaena. Aelinor could then be Ronnel's daughter from a previous marriage, being roughly of the same age as Prince Aerys.

Theoretically it is still possible that Aelinor is descended from a Velaryon daughter by Baela and Alyn, but that is less likely.

For any other 'Targaryen cousins' we would have to go all the way back to Aerea and Rhalla, and they would be so far removed from the main line by the time Daeron II ascended the Iron Throne (roughly 130 years) that it the term 'cousin' would be stretched pretty far.

[purple-eyes]

49 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, since we don't know how many Daynes actually are at Starfall that is really difficult to say.

But I'm not sure that the idea of having a Dayne-Targaryen match was a late addition. Ran has said that there is a Dayne family tree hidden in George's desk nobody has seen, and just because Maekar's wife became a Dayne doesn't mean George hadn't had an earlier idea how that may have worked.

We know Aelinor Penrose is Aerys' cousin on the Targaryen side of the family, not the Martell side. Since the family tree specifies the children of Ronnel Penrose and Elaena (Robin, Laena, Jocelyn, and Joy) it is clear that she isn't the mother of Aelinor. That wouldn't have fit into the timeline anyway, because we know that Elaena was married to Ronnel Penrose by Daeron II (which means not before 184 AC, when Daeron II took the throne) and Prince Aerys would still have been a young boy close to Baelor in age by this time. He would have been married to a girl 10-12 younger than he was, especially not to a girl which wasn't even born when his father took the throne.

It is much more likely that Ronnel Penrose is a descendant of one of the Hightower daughters, grew up at court with his cousin Prince Daeron befriending him, and was previously married before his friend Daeron II married him to Elaena. Aelinor could then be Ronnel's daughter from a previous marriage, being roughly of the same age as Prince Aerys.

Theoretically it is still possible that Aelinor is descended from a Velaryon daughter by Baela and Alyn, but that is less likely.

For any other 'Targaryen cousins' we would have to go all the way back to Aerea and Rhalla, and they would be so far removed from the main line by the time Daeron II ascended the Iron Throne (roughly 130 years) that it the term 'cousin' would be stretched pretty far.

Sorry I am confused. 

Aelinor is cousin with aerys from targaryen side, not penrose side or Hightower side. And why martell side? 

I think this means they are cousin through elaena targaryen, who is aerys's cousin too. 

 

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, purple-eyes said:

Sorry I am confused. 

Aelinor is cousin with aerys from targaryen side, not penrose side or Hightower side. And why martell side? 

I think this means they are cousin through elaena targaryen, who is aerys's cousin too. 

Okay.

1. Aelinor Penrose is Aerys' cousin on the Targaryen side. Ran originally told us she was his cousin somewhere on the board, but didn't specify whether she was his cousin during a relation through the female branch on the Targaryen or the Martell side. Since Aerys is the son of Daeron II Targaryen and Mariah Martell he could be related to the Penroses either on the Targaryen or the Martell side (or both, actually). Some people have suggested she might not be Aerys' cousin on the Targaryen side but the Martell side

Ran and Linda confirmed in the video that Aerys and Aelinor are cousins on the Targaryen side of the family.

2. Elaena Targaryen cannot be the mother of Aelinor Penrose because we know her descendants (again, they are named Robin, Laena, Jocelyn, and Joy - there is no Aelinor there). Since Elaena only married Ronnel Penrose in or after 184 AC (the marriage was arranged by King Daeron II) it is not possible that Aelinor Penrose is a granddaughter of Elaena's let alone old enough to be married to Prince Aerys before 209 AC.

3. One of the daughters of Garmund Hightower and Rhaena Targaryen (who was Aegon III's half-sister) would have been the mother or grandmother of Ronnel Penrose, explaining how the hell the Penroses were noble/royal enough to marry into House Targaryen in the first place (and explaining how Aelinor and Aerys can be cousins).

[purple-eyes]

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Okay.

1. Aelinor Penrose is Aerys' cousin on the Targaryen side. Ran originally told us she was his cousin somewhere on the board, but didn't specify whether she was his cousin during a relation through the female branch on the Targaryen or the Martell side. Since Aerys is the son of Daeron II Targaryen and Mariah Martell he could be related to the Penroses either on the Targaryen or the Martell side (or both, actually). Some people have suggested she might not be Aerys' cousin on the Targaryen side but the Martell side

Ran and Linda confirmed in the video that Aerys and Aelinor are cousins on the Targaryen side of the family.

2. Elaena Targaryen cannot be the mother of Aelinor Penrose because we know her descendants (again, they are named Robin, Laena, Jocelyn, and Joy - there is no Aelinor there). Since Elaena only married Ronnel Penrose in or after 184 AC (the marriage was arranged by King Daeron II) it is not possible that Aelinor Penrose is a granddaughter of Elaena's let alone old enough to be married to Prince Aerys before 209 AC.

3. One of the daughters of Garmund Hightower and Rhaena Targaryen (who was Aegon III's half-sister) would have been the mother or grandmother of Ronnel Penrose, explaining how the hell the Penroses were noble/royal enough to marry into House Targaryen in the first place (and explaining how Aelinor and Aerys can be cousins).

Why? Let us say elaena got her first penrose son robin at 184 right after the marriage, (she did that with aegon or plumm). then after 13 years this son married and got aelinor, then after another 12 years, she is ok to marry. This will be 209. 

I feel like she is daughter of robin penrose. 

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Why? Let us say elaena got her first penrose son robin at 184 right after the marriage, (she did that with aegon or plumm). then after 13 years this son married and got aelinor, then after another 12 years, she is ok to marry. This will be 209. 

I feel like she is daughter of robin penrose. 

I know that it can work theoretically. In fact, that was our first thought when we investigated the complete family tree. But Ran shot that down back then, giving us the information that Aelinor was Aerys' cousin but not descended from Elaena.

[purple-eyes]

14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I know that it can work theoretically. In fact, that was our first thought when we investigated the complete family tree. But Ran shot that down back then, giving us the information that Aelinor was Aerys' cousin but not descended from Elaena.

I saw that through wiki. 

It is quite strange though. 

But I guess if grrm decided she is a cousin independent from elaena. 

Then she is so. 

[Lord Varys]

4 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

I saw that through wiki. 

It is quite strange though. 

But I guess if grrm decided she is a cousin independent from elaena. 

Then she is so. 

It is isn't strange. There are six Hightower-Targaryen girls to pick from - Aerys and Aelinor could easily be third cousins that way.

[purple-eyes]

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It is isn't strange. There are six Hightower-Targaryen girls to pick from - Aerys and Aelinor could easily be third cousins that way.

Oh, I did not mean this. 

I mean what is the point to add that elaena married penrose. 

Grrm could make her marry any house. 

 

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Oh, I did not mean this. 

I mean what is the point to add that elaena married penrose. 

Grrm could make her marry any house. 

We don't know for sure. But it most likely had to do with Ronnel Penrose and his importance for Daeron II. After all, we know that he sucked as Master of Coin, too, so why the hell name him to the office and marry Elaena to him rather than choose a competent man for both the office and for Elaena to marry?

There is one hint in TWoIaF that could help explain that. In the section on Aegon IV Yandel tells us that Aegon's war against Dorne early in his reign was supposed to drive a wedge between Daeron and Daeron's friends in Dorne as well as those he had in the Stormlands, the Marches, and the Reach:

'Perhaps it was for this reason that Aegon turned his attention to Dorne, using the hatred for the Dornishmen that still burned in the Marches, the Stormlands, and the Reach to suborn some of Daeron’s allies [presumably Stormlords like the Penroses and the Dondarrions] and use them against his most powerful supporters [the Prince of Dorne and the Martells].'

This suggests that Prince Daeron was already close with some houses/lords in the Marches and the Stormlands which eventually resulted in the Dondarrion and the Penrose matches.

Ronnel Penrose and Jena Dondarrion's father would in my opinion be some childhood friend of Prince Daeron who were raised as wards aside young Prince Daeron, growing close to him. Daeron was born in 153 AC; Rhaena Targaryen's elder daughters by Garmund Hightower could easily be born in the mid-130s, enabling them to have children of their own in, say, 153-155 AC or so.

With Viserys serving as Hand, and the male branch of House Targaryen cut down basically to Baelor I and Viserys-Aegon-Daeron it is no surprise that the Targaryens would keep their cousin close (just as Steffon Baratheon later grows up at Aerys' side in KL). Not to mention that Rhaena may have still been alive and pretty close to her half-brother Viserys, ensuring that her grandsons rise high at court.

After his own ascension to the throne Daeron II rewards his Dondarrion and Penrose cousins with fine royal match, binding them even more closely to his house and thus ensuring their continued support for his Dornish plans. In the end that paid off because the Penroses and Dondarrions clearly would have been very crucial to secure all those Stormlander levies that turned up with Baelor Breakspear on the Redgrass Field.

With Jena and Aelinor being married to Daeron's sons the Dondarrions and Penroses most likely were never tempted to join Daemon Blackfyre.

[purple-eyes]

55 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

We don't know for sure. But it most likely had to do with Ronnel Penrose and his importance for Daeron II. After all, we know that he sucked as Master of Coin, too, so why the hell name him to the office and marry Elaena to him rather than choose a competent man for both the office and for Elaena to marry?

There is one hint in TWoIaF that could help explain that. In the section on Aegon IV Yandel tells us that Aegon's war against Dorne early in his reign was supposed to drive a wedge between Daeron and Daeron's friends in Dorne as well as those he had in the Stormlands, the Marches, and the Reach:

'Perhaps it was for this reason that Aegon turned his attention to Dorne, using the hatred for the Dornishmen that still burned in the Marches, the Stormlands, and the Reach to suborn some of Daeron’s allies [presumably Stormlords like the Penroses and the Dondarrions] and use them against his most powerful supporters [the Prince of Dorne and the Martells].'

This suggests that Prince Daeron was already close with some houses/lords in the Marches and the Stormlands which eventually resulted in the Dondarrion and the Penrose matches.

Ronnel Penrose and Jena Dondarrion's father would in my opinion be some childhood friend of Prince Daeron who were raised as wards aside young Prince Daeron, growing close to him. Daeron was born in 153 AC; Rhaena Targaryen's elder daughters by Garmund Hightower could easily be born in the mid-130s, enabling them to have children of their own in, say, 153-155 AC or so.

With Viserys serving as Hand, and the male branch of House Targaryen cut down basically to Baelor I and Viserys-Aegon-Daeron it is no surprise that the Targaryens would keep their cousin close (just as Steffon Baratheon later grows up at Aerys' side in KL). Not to mention that Rhaena may have still been alive and pretty close to her half-brother Viserys, ensuring that her grandsons rise high at court.

After his own ascension to the throne Daeron II rewards his Dondarrion and Penrose cousins with fine royal match, binding them even more closely to his house and thus ensuring their continued support for his Dornish plans. In the end that paid off because the Penroses and Dondarrions clearly would have been very crucial to secure all those Stormlander levies that turned up with Baelor Breakspear on the Redgrass Field.

With Jena and Aelinor being married to Daeron's sons the Dondarrions and Penroses most likely were never tempted to join Daemon Blackfyre.

Aegon really hated dorne.

I am wondering what is Mariah's attitude on aegon's war towards dorne and why aegon did not request Mariah as hostage like aerys did when he opened war against dorne. 

 

[Duranaparthur]

On February 3, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Lord Varys said:

Not all the Targaryen women have to die in childbirth... Hell, we could even connect that scenario with the death of Mariah Martell if we assume that Dyanna, Maekar, and his mother were visiting Dorne. Prior to Dyanna's death Maekar must have been the son of Daeron II who was closest to Dorne and the Dornish relations.

One really wonders how this is going to be developed in later Dunk & Egg stories.

I'm thinking the Dornish origin of Dyanna, and her family's chivalric traditions, may have played a larger role in Maekar's marriage than we've suggested so far. Remember, Daeron's children were probably looked down on by the Anti-Dornish faction on account of Mariah Martell's Dornish blood and the inferred insult to the dead from the Young Dragon's Conquest of Dorne and its eventual failure. I mean, Baelor Breakspear seemed to make himself a clear warrior archetype on par with Daemon Blackfyre when they jousted and Baelor won, but that didn't seem to slow down Daemon's rhetoric about the weakness of the Targaryen house.

Look at Maekar. He's the youngest of a brood of children who are sometimes cursed for their Dornish blood, and Maekar's marriage doubles down on that same Dornish blood and plants himself in the Dornish Marches in a new castle that seems like a sure target for any army trying to march on Dorne. There's also a lot to suggest that Maekar saw himself as the enforcer of his family; he's the unlikely heir at boy #4, seems to want to serve the reigning monarch instead of be the reigning monarch, seems to have a fusion of Stannis's calculating temperament with Robert's front-line bravery, and he picks Bloodraven as a Hand in spite of disliking him, almost certainly because he knew he could trust Bloodraven when ever warfare loomed on the horizon. This is a man who displays an extremely protective nature for his family as well as a surprising willingness to risk his personal safety, and both to such extremes that he twice inflicts severe defeats upon the Blackfyres and dies while leading an assault on a rebellious castle. In some ways, there's extra tragedy to his killing of Baelor because he almost certainly would have died for him in almost any other situation.

Dyanna Dayne is a perfect match for such a guy; her family has a moral ethos that encourages loyalty to the feudal command, and a military tradition that occasionally pops out ubër-badasses, and all that in an area that would almost certainly be bound to defend Maekar's Dornish mother and cousins. Heck, maybe Maekar meets this lady, hears her talk about Dawn and the Swords of the Morning, and decides "Hot damn, she's attractive, understands my military desires, and her family kicks ass. I believe we have a winner!" And then they have multiple children, she dies, and their oldest kids seem to mock the parents' ideals; Daeron the Drunkard lacks the self-discipline to be a skilled warrior, Aerion Brightflame gets the skill but compeltley misses out on the code, and Aemon becomes just as bookish as Maekar's older brother Aerys. And only Egg seems to be capable of pursuing his parents' potential, and Maekar almost loses him the same day he accidentally kills his older brother while backing up his dumb brute of a son.

No wonder the man was dour.

[Lord Varys]

9 hours ago, Duranaparthur said:

I'm thinking the Dornish origin of Dyanna, and her family's chivalric traditions, may have played a larger role in Maekar's marriage than we've suggested so far. Remember, Daeron's children were probably looked down on by the Anti-Dornish faction on account of Mariah Martell's Dornish blood and the inferred insult to the dead from the Young Dragon's Conquest of Dorne and its eventual failure. I mean, Baelor Breakspear seemed to make himself a clear warrior archetype on par with Daemon Blackfyre when they jousted and Baelor won, but that didn't seem to slow down Daemon's rhetoric about the weakness of the Targaryen house.

That much certainly is true. However, Baelor Breakspear clearly was also a focal point of the Targaryen loyalist during the Blackfyre Rebellion. He was the martial princely figurehead of Daeron's supporters. Baelor's problem were his Martell features. Had he looked like a proper Targaryen prince Daemon Blackfyre's case would have been much weaker.

This is actually another hint why it is very unlikely that Daeron married Baelor to wife with no Targaryen blood. That would have potentially put his grandsons by Baelor in a worse position.

9 hours ago, Duranaparthur said:

Look at Maekar. He's the youngest of a brood of children who are sometimes cursed for their Dornish blood, and Maekar's marriage doubles down on that same Dornish blood and plants himself in the Dornish Marches in a new castle that seems like a sure target for any army trying to march on Dorne. 

We don't know when exactly Daeron II gave Summerhall to Maekar. Could have been only after the Blackfyre Rebellion was dealt with. As a sort of reward for Maekar's prowess in the war. But Maekar definitely was already married to Dyanna by the time of the rebellion (Daeron the Drunk is eighteen in THK). I take that as a sign that Daeron II betrothed and married all their sons to their brides prior to the Blackfyre Rebellion, which means that the Dayne marriage was either arranged or an outgrowth of personal attraction. Dyanna could have come to court to attend Queen Mariah or may have been the daughter of a long-standing lady-in-waiting at court from House Dayne who grew up with the royal princes.

Baelor's and Aerys' brides most certainly would have been arranged for political reasons because they were the elder sons. Rhaegel and Maekar were less important and it is actually sort of strange that both were allowed to marry. But then, the deaths of the Young Dragon and Baelor the Blessed cut the royal house down to only Viserys' branch which just brought forth one legitimate male branch.

9 hours ago, Duranaparthur said:

There's also a lot to suggest that Maekar saw himself as the enforcer of his family; he's the unlikely heir at boy #4, seems to want to serve the reigning monarch instead of be the reigning monarch, seems to have a fusion of Stannis's calculating temperament with Robert's front-line bravery, and he picks Bloodraven as a Hand in spite of disliking him, almost certainly because he knew he could trust Bloodraven when ever warfare loomed on the horizon. This is a man who displays an extremely protective nature for his family as well as a surprising willingness to risk his personal safety, and both to such extremes that he twice inflicts severe defeats upon the Blackfyres and dies while leading an assault on a rebellious castle. In some ways, there's extra tragedy to his killing of Baelor because he almost certainly would have died for him in almost any other situation.

Maekar may have ended up in such a role later on in his life, at the side of his brother Aerys I. But back in the days of Daeron II Baelor Breakspear and perhaps Bloodraven were the enforcers. Maekar was the overlooked and irrelevant fourth son. At least according to Raymun Fossoway.

9 hours ago, Duranaparthur said:

Dyanna Dayne is a perfect match for such a guy; her family has a moral ethos that encourages loyalty to the feudal command, and a military tradition that occasionally pops out ubër-badasses, and all that in an area that would almost certainly be bound to defend Maekar's Dornish mother and cousins. Heck, maybe Maekar meets this lady, hears her talk about Dawn and the Swords of the Morning, and decides "Hot damn, she's attractive, understands my military desires, and her family kicks ass. I believe we have a winner!" And then they have multiple children, she dies, and their oldest kids seem to mock the parents' ideals; Daeron the Drunkard lacks the self-discipline to be a skilled warrior, Aerion Brightflame gets the skill but compeltley misses out on the code, and Aemon becomes just as bookish as Maekar's older brother Aerys. And only Egg seems to be capable of pursuing his parents' potential, and Maekar almost loses him the same day he accidentally kills his older brother while backing up his dumb brute of a son.

Considering that Maekar would have married Dyanna at a time when he was still pretty young and not an accomplished warrior or leader that's not very likely. But we can be reasonably certain that he loved his wife very much considering that he never remarried. Not even when he became king.

[Duranaparthur]

8 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That much certainly is true. However, Baelor Breakspear clearly was also a focal point of the Targaryen loyalist during the Blackfyre Rebellion. He was the martial princely figurehead of Daeron's supporters. Baelor's problem were his Martell features. Had he looked like a proper Targaryen prince Daemon Blackfyre's case would have been much weaker.

This is actually another hint why it is very unlikely that Daeron married Baelor to wife with no Targaryen blood. That would have potentially put his grandsons by Baelor in a worse position.

We don't know when exactly Daeron II gave Summerhall to Maekar. Could have been only after the Blackfyre Rebellion was dealt with. As a sort of reward for Maekar's prowess in the war. But Maekar definitely was already married to Dyanna by the time of the rebellion (Daeron the Drunk is eighteen in THK). I take that as a sign that Daeron II betrothed and married all their sons to their brides prior to the Blackfyre Rebellion, which means that the Dayne marriage was either arranged or an outgrowth of personal attraction. Dyanna could have come to court to attend Queen Mariah or may have been the daughter of a long-standing lady-in-waiting at court from House Dayne who grew up with the royal princes.

Baelor's and Aerys' brides most certainly would have been arranged for political reasons because they were the elder sons. Rhaegel and Maekar were less important and it is actually sort of strange that both were allowed to marry. But then, the deaths of the Young Dragon and Baelor the Blessed cut the royal house down to only Viserys' branch which just brought forth one legitimate male branch.

Maekar may have ended up in such a role later on in his life, at the side of his brother Aerys I. But back in the days of Daeron II Baelor Breakspear and perhaps Bloodraven were the enforcers. Maekar was the overlooked and irrelevant fourth son. At least according to Raymun Fossoway.

Considering that Maekar would have married Dyanna at a time when he was still pretty young and not an accomplished warrior or leader that's not very likely. But we can be reasonably certain that he loved his wife very much considering that he never remarried. Not even when he became king.

I kind of think that even a young Maekar probably would have seen his future as being at least muscle for the family, but not the power for them. Baelor strikes me as the champion of the family, the guy you deploy against your greatest rivals not just in terms of physical contests but also in terms of diplomatic and for raising morale; thus the importance for Baelor beating Daemon in the joust at his aunt's wedding, since he seems to show himself to be the chivalrous counterpoint to Daemon's chivalry. 

Meanwhile, Maekar is somewhere between only four years younger than Baelor to eight years younger, so at his youngest possible age he's 9 years old when 17 year old Baelor wins that joust, a joust which has important political ramifications, and probably still old enough to notice that Rhaegel's a little mad and Aerys is too bookish to be a warrior. And we know that Bran at 8 is already undergoing the basic training of horsemanship and weapons and dreaming of being a knight, so it's not too far into speculation to think that a young Maekar would probably see his future as being either a martial one where he's already starting out behind Baelor in terms of prestige, or a completely ignominious life. And if he's already 14, then all that is even more likely, with a slim but present possibility that he might already be married to Dyanna, a Dornishwoman and aware of how Daemon winning the joust obliquely threatens his mother and wife by then.

Now, Maekar's age impacts the likelihood of his marriage being totally arranged or not; a younger Maekar closer to 12 when Daeron the Drunkard is born in 190 AC pretty much has to have had his marriage arranged by his father, while a Maekar closer to 16 when he enters fatherhood is more likely to have chosen his wife himself. An older Maekar might also already be appointed Prince of Summerhall, while a younger one probably has to win it after Redgrass Field. 

And an older Maekar has a few more intriguing possibilities. After all, an older Maekar who can marry his own choice probably doesn't blink that much when Aegon does likewise, and to another legendary but subordinate family in the Balckwoods; this also puts even more pressure on Egg to be softer on his children when they follow that pattern. And considering Summerhall's location, there is another possible impact on Maekar's discomfort in Baelor's shadow. Baelor lead a combined Dornish and Stormlord cavalry force to Redgrass field, the same groups that would naturally rally at a royal house in the March between the two kingdoms. Summerhall, if built well before the Blackfyre rebellion, may have been given to a royal prince to try and keep the Targaryens' power there. So Maekar may have been given a castle intended for Baelor before Baelor took up Dragonstone, making a palatial estate a hand-me-down, and if, if mind you, Maekar was already Prince of Summerhall, than his older brother one his legend using Maekar's troops.