Pink Letter. Battle for Winterfell. The Northern Conspiracy.

[Stangler]

On 5/17/2016 at 10:58 PM, Stag_legion said:

He won't. They will go to Bear island and and rally the north there.

They need to remind us how lyanna Mormont dissed Stannis.

We already know Sansa and Davos are going there. To also send Jon seems like overkill. 

If he doesn't go to white harbor he stays with the wildlings IMO. 

[A Prince of Dorne]

I definitely see Jon going to White Harbor .... well, either Jon or Littlefinger

[Cas Stark]

I actually thought the timing of the letter worked okay in the show.

It's too bad they forgot that Ramsay should also ask for his Reek back, unless he really has turned into Sauron and has seen that he left for Pyke.  

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Scorpion92 said:

Nah, it would be too complicated and kinda pointless for the show. If the show wants to move Jon south, they just need Ramsay to threaten Sansa and Rickon, no others needed . I don't think the letter was not written by Ramsay.

And I don't think Umbers are conspiring against Boltons, I think it is what it is. However, we know that Lord Manderly is cast for this season, and I am sure he will be a big wildcard in the Snowbowl, especially there is a mention of special speech ("The North remembers") in his casting list.

But I am also pretty certain that Lord Manderly will die as soon as he appears in the Bastardbowl, because Jon just NEEDS to give White Harbor to Ser Davos. The Onion Knight has no allies in the south, and he has some knowledge in navy. Winterfell will be taken back by Jon and Sansa at the end of the season, and Cersei/Iron Throne will not be too happy about it. The North will need to build a fleet to guard its eastern coast from potential southern answer. And Ser Davos will be perfect for that in addition to being Jon's main advisor.

Yeah, no way the Umber are pulling some scam. They've legitimately turned. And the Manderlys absolutely turn pro Stark. All Hell would break loose if they're anti-Stark on the show considering their unquestionable loyalty in the novels. As for Davos getting White Harbor, no way. If anything he gets The Dreadfort, it'll be without a Lord as soon as Ramsay dies. Itll go from being the most disloyal to the most loyal. My guess Davos swears a Manderly type oath of eternal loyalty for it.

[Hodor H. McHodorton]

5 hours ago, The Broke Howard Hughes said:

Yeah, no way the Umber are pulling some scam. They've legitimately turned. And the Manderlys absolutely turn pro Stark. All Hell would break loose if they're anti-Stark on the show considering their unquestionable loyalty in the novels. As for Davos getting White Harbor, no way. If anything he gets The Dreadfort, it'll be without a Lord as soon as Ramsay dies. Itll go from being the most disloyal to the most loyal. My guess Davos swears a Manderly type oath of eternal loyalty for it.

I tend to agree that the Umbers have turned, but I don't put it past them to turn back again when the time comes. Here is my reasoning. First, the timing of their allegiance seems convenient. Why didn't the Umbers pledge their allegiance and deliver Rickon when Roose was alive? I guess I could have missed a bit in the dialogue about them recently capturing Rickon, but they could have pledged their allegiance earlier. Also, the show did make a significant point about not kneeling to Ramsay. I contend that this means the Umbers are holding their true allegiance back. Giving up Rickon is just enough to earn Ramsay's trust (maybe) enough so that the Umbers line up next to the Boltons and Karstarks at Bastardbowl. Moreover, when the Umbers throw in with Ramsay, Ramsay has the Karstarks and is really the top dog (ahem) in the North. But when Jon rallies the Manderlys and the Wildlings, the Umbers are going to second guess whether they are on the winning side. 

My prediction is that Ramsay waves around his Rickon card at Bastardbowl, but is doublecrossed by the Umbers, who return Rickon to Jon and, at a crucial moment, throw in with the Jon/Manderly/Wildling forces. Camera pans in to Ramsay's face on the battlefield as he realizes a chunk of his army has just defected and the tide is turning. Wild cheering erupts around the world as the millions tuned in realize that Ramsay is about to be chased by the rabid dogs of war.

[b00gieman]

Potential Spoilers Below

 

 

Who wrote the Bastard/Pink letter?  Well according to the Wheel of Time it was Littlefinger.  For those of you following my theory you know I believe that Jon Snow is based upon Rand al’Thor. You also know that I believe that Littlefinger is based upon Padan Fain.  The following will show you why Littefinger wrote the Pink letter:

 

The Letter addressed to Rand:

 

“Watching the woman march back to the red arch, Min’s eyes sparkled with the mirth that flowed along the bond, and her mouth struggled against laughing. Instead of handing the message to Rand, she broke the seal with her thumb and unfolded the letter herself, for all the world as if she were a native of this mad city.  She frowned slightly as she read, but a brief flare in the bond was the only warning he had. Crumpling the letter, she turned toward the fireplace; he bounded from the bench to snatch it from her hand just before she could toss it into the flames.”

“Don’t be a fool,” she said, catching his wrist. She stared up at him, her large dark eyes deadly serious. All that came to him through the bond was a grim intensity. “Please don’t be a fool.”

 

“I promised Verin I’d try not,” he said, but Min did not smile. He smoothed out the page on his chest. The writing was in a spidery hand he did not recognize, and there was no signature.

 

I know who you are, and I wish you well, but I also wish you gone from Far Madding. The Dragon Reborn leaves death and destruction where he steps. I now know why you are here, too. You killed Rochaid, and Kisman also is dead. Torval and Gedwyn have taken the top floor above a bootmaker named Zeram on Blue Carp Street, just above the Illian Gate. Kill them and go, and leave Far Madding in peace.

 

The Letter addressed to Jon:

 

“Mully had not been wrong; the old steward was trembling, his face as pale as the snows outside. “I am being foolish, Lord Commander, but … this letter frightens me. See here?”

Bastard, was the only word written outside the scroll. No Lord Snow or Jon Snow or Lord Commander. Simply Bastard. And the letter was sealed with a smear of hard pink wax. “You were right to come at once,” Jon said. You were right to be afraid. He cracked the seal, flattened the parchment, and read.

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

 

Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.”

 

“I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

 

I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.

 

It was signed,

 

Ramsay Bolton,

Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

 

 

 

Rand knew the letter was a trap:

 

“The Dragon’s heads on the backs of his hands glittered, metallic red and gold. “You admit this has to be a trap,” she growled at him. “Lan admits it. A halfblind goat in Seleisin has more brains than to walk into a trap! ‘Only fools kiss hornets or bite fire!’ ” she quoted.

“A trap isn’t really a trap if you know it’s there,” he said absently, bending the end of one of the severed wires a little to line up better with its mate. “If you know it’s there, maybe you can see a way to walk in so it isn’t a trap at all.”

 

 

Jon Snow has to know the letter is a snare to draw him to Winterfell.

 

Padan Fain tries to kill Rand:

 

“Fain is here,” Rand whispered. As if saying the name were a trigger, the twin wounds in his side began throbbing, the older like a disc of ice, the newer a bar of fire across it. “It was him sent the letter.”

“Lan gestured toward the trapdoor with his sword, but Rand shook his head. He had wanted to kill the renegades with his own hands, yet now that Torval and Gedwyn were dead — and almost certainly Kisman, too; there was that swollen corpse mentioned by the merchant at The Golden Wheel — now, he realized he did not care who killed them so long as they were dead. If a stranger finished Dashiva, it would not matter. Fain was another matter. Fain had harrowed the Two Rivers with Trollocs, and given him a second wound that would not heal. If Fain was within reach, Rand would not allow him to escape. He motioned for Lan to do as they had in the attic, and set himself in front of the door with his sword in both hands. When the other man pulled the door open, he darted into a large lamplit room with a posted bed against the far wall and a fire crackling in a small fireplace.”

“Only the speed of his movement saved him. A flicker of movement caught the corner of his eye, something tugged at the cloak billowing behind him, and he spun awkwardly to fend off slashes of a curved dagger. Every movement was an effort of will. The wounds in his side no longer throbbed; they clawed at him, molten iron and the very soul of ice warring to rip him open. Lews Therin howled. It was all Rand could do to think, with the agony. “I told you he’s mine!” the bony man screamed, dancing away from Rand’s cut. With his face contorted in fury, his big nose and ears that stuck out made him seem something contrived to frighten children, but his eyes held murder. Teeth bared in a snarl, he looked like a weasel wild with killing fury. A rabid weasel, ready to savage even a leopard. With that dagger, he could kill any number of leopards. “Mine!” Padan Fain shrieked, leaping back again as Lan rushed into the room. “Kill the ugly one!”

Only when Lan turned away from Fain did Rand realize someone else was in the room, a tall pale man who came almost eagerly to meet the Warder blade to blade. Toram Riatin’s face was haggard, but he flowed into the dance of swords with the grace of the blademaster he was. Lan met him with an equal grace, a dance of steel and death.”

“Startled as Rand was to see the man who had tried to claim the throne of Cairhien in a worn coat in Far Madding, he kept his eyes on Fain and his sword toward the one time peddler. Darkfriend and worse, Moiraine had called him long ago. The blinding pain in Rand’s side made him stumble as he advanced on Fain, ignoring the stamp of boots and the ring of steel on steel behind him as he ignored Lews Therin’s groans in his head. Fain danced and darted, trying to get close enough to use the dagger that had made the neverhealing slash in Rand’s side, growling curses in a low voice as Rand’s blade forced him back. Abruptly he turned and ran, toward the back of the building.

The torment tearing at Rand faded to mere throbbing as Fain vanished from the room, but he followed cautiously even so. At the doorway, though, he saw that Fain was not trying to hide. The man stood waiting for him at the head of stairs leading down, the curved dagger in one hand. The large ruby capping the hilt glittered, catching the light of the lamps set on tables about the windowless room. As soon as Rand stepped into the room, fire and ice raged in his side till he could feel his heart shuddering. Staying upright was an effort of iron will. Taking a step forward made that effort seem pale, but he took that step, and the next.”

“I want him to know who is killing him,” Fain whined petulantly. He was glaring straight at Rand, but he seemed to talking to himself. “I want him to know! But if he’s dead, then he will stop haunting my dreams. Yes. He will stop, then.” With a smile, he raised his free hand.”

“Torval and Gedwyn came up the stairs with their cloaks over their arms. “I say we aren’t going near him until I know where the others are,” Gedwyn growled. “The M’Hael will kill us if. . . .”
Without thought, Rand twisted his wrists in Cutting the Wind and immediately followed with Unfolding the Fan.

The illusion of dead men come back to life vanished, and Fain leaped back with a shriek, blood streaming down the side of his face. Suddenly he tilted his head as though listening, and a moment later, aiming a scream of wordless fury at Rand, he fled down the stairs.

Wondering, Rand moved to follow the descending thumps of Pain’s boots, but Lan caught his arm.”

 

So why would Littlefinger want Jon Snow dead?

 

In the show and in the books I think the answer is the same.  He wants Jon Snow out of the way because he has his hooks in Sansa and he wants to continue to manipulate from behind the scenes.

 

In the books he probably has information that Robb Stark wrote a letter legitimizing Jon Snow which would make him the heir to Winterfell if it ever surfaced.  That would put a player in the game that he doesn’t have control of and that doesn’t fit his plans.  Also Sansa is pretending to be his daughter Alayne in the books and he has setup a marriage between her and Harry Hardyng.  Harry would become the Lord of the Vale in the event of Lord Robert Arryn’s death.  Littlefinger intends to have Robert killed and when Harry is the Lord of the Vale spring the fact that Alayne is actually Sansa Stark.  At this point Harry would be obligated to assist in taking back his wifes home of Winterfell.

 

In the show he has already rallied the Vale army to the north.  Sansa refused his help but Ramsay’s forces will eventually overcome Jon’s forces and Littlefinger will outflank them with the Vale’s troops.

 

Either way he needs Jon Snow out of the way.

 

The dagger that Padan Fain uses is the ruby hilted dagger that almost killed Mat. Tyrion’s character is based upon Mat.  Remember the dagger that almost got Tyrion killed came from Littlefinger.

 

Fain got away when he came face to face with Rand which makes me believe that Littlefinger will remain in play after the “Bastard Bowl” has concluded.

 

Summary:

 

Both series have letters delivered that are not clear as to the true author. Both letters seem to be obvious traps and the recipients of both letters are being egged on in order to get them to do what they know they shouldn’t do.  Could Littlefinger have a more personal reason for wanting to kill Rand that has yet to be revealed as Padan Fain had against Rand?

[Alex21]

Since Northern conspiracies are so important in the books I think the show will reflect some of this. After Osha's death I don't know what to make of the Umbers, if there is a conspiracy going on in which the Umbers are involved i just see pointless the way Osha died, now, this is Game of Thrones so everything is possible, and if the Manderlys are to appear in the show then something interesting is to happen IMO.

[Alex21]

On 5/18/2016 at 3:03 PM, Cas Stark said:

I actually thought the timing of the letter worked okay in the show.

It's too bad they forgot that Ramsay should also ask for his Reek back, unless he really has turned into Sauron and has seen that he left for Pyke.  

Or maybe the person who wrote it did not know anything about Reek.

[b00gieman]

Before you guys ask how Littlefinger could have known all the information in the letter; here is my explanation:

“Call it dragonglass.” Archmaester Marwyn glanced at the candle for a moment. “It burns but is not consumed.”

“What feeds the flame?” asked Sam.

“What feeds a dragon’s fire?” Marwyn seated himself upon a stool. “All Valyrian sorcery was rooted in blood or fire. The sorcerers of the Freehold could see across mountains, seas, and deserts with one of these glass candles. They could enter a man’s dreams and give him visions, and speak to one another half a world apart, seated before their candles. Do you think that might be useful, Slayer?”

“We would have no more need of ravens.”

Archmaester Marwyn knew that some was coming and what he was going to say before Sam told him with a glass candle.