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Durran Durrandon

What does Euron really want with Daenerys?

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I have a feeling that the gods are not real but the magic systems tied to them are in some cases.  

If the show is to be believed even the Others are just a Children of the Forest creation gone rogue.  

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8 hours ago, Raventhal said:

I have a feeling that the gods are not real but the magic systems tied to them are in some cases.  

If the show is to be believed even the Others are just a Children of the Forest creation gone rogue.  

Agreed.

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I really like this parallel of Euron with the Bloodstone Emperor, good call @Durran Durrandon ! There has to be a reason beyond world-building why GRRM gave us those myths in TWOIAF.

From the wiki:

His was a reign of terror. The Bloodstone Emperor not only practiced torture, but also dark arts, necromancy. He enslaved his own people, took a tiger-woman for wife, feasted on human flesh and cast down the true gods of Yi Ti, to worship a black stone that fell from the sky. 

Euron checks off, or will check off most boxes here, I think. Spitballing here:

The "tiger-woman" in this case could be a "lion-woman"  - everyone's favourite lioness Cersei. She may team up with Euron after her children die, and she has no other option left, while he needs allies as well.

The mention of "black stone from the sky" somehow reminds me of Dawn, House Dayne's famous sword, which is said to be fashioned from the heart of a falling star. Maybe Darkstar (who is of the night :P) steals Dawn and teams up with him? 

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1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

I really like this parallel of Euron with the Bloodstone Emperor, good call @Durran Durrandon ! There has to be a reason beyond world-building why GRRM gave us those myths in TWOIAF.

From the wiki:

His was a reign of terror. The Bloodstone Emperor not only practiced torture, but also dark arts, necromancy. He enslaved his own people, took a tiger-woman for wife, feasted on human flesh and cast down the true gods of Yi Ti, to worship a black stone that fell from the sky. 

Euron checks off, or will check off most boxes here, I think. Spitballing here:

The "tiger-woman" in this case could be a "lion-woman"  - everyone's favourite lioness Cersei. She may team up with Euron after her children die, and she has no other option left, while he needs allies as well.

The mention of "black stone from the sky" somehow reminds me of Dawn, House Dayne's famous sword, which is said to be fashioned from the heart of a falling star. Maybe Darkstar (who is of the night :P) steals Dawn and teams up with him? 

I think it is likely that Darkstar will steal Dawn, and then get killed, bringing it into play. Maybe Euron will get it. Maybe Jon will. I'm not sure. . .  but let's talk about Dawn.

The game GRRM is playing here is infuriating. Clearly the parallel between  the pale stone that fell to earth, which the founder of house Dayne found at Starfall is intended to parallel the black stone from the sky of the Bloodstone Emperor, but it's just that, a pale stone, not black. The word pale gets repeated a lot, though. when Daenerys has her fever dream in Game of Thrones, she sees rulers holding swords sheathed in pale flame. And the rulers have gem stone eyes that parallel the Golden Emperors of the Dawn, so he seems to be drawing an association between Dawn and the Golden Empire of the Dawn through the association with pale flame and the Pale Atone, which seems pretty obvious once you think about it, because the sword is called Dawn. At the same time. in Aeron's dream, he sees  Euron with a shadow in woman form with hands sheathed in pale flame. So we have to question this a bit.

Flash forward to the Azor Ahai myth, and we find that Azor Ahai's sword, Light Bringer, is sheathed in red flame, and it seems like it was forged after the fall of the Golden Emperors of the Dawn , who by association with Daenery's dream already had one or more swords with pale flame, so it seems like Azor Ahai was trying to recreate something that had already existed. Maybe he was forging it from the Black Stone.

Earlier in this thread, @Masha mentioned the possibility that the base of the Hightower, which is made of black stone, could be the Black Stone. I think that idea has merit, largely because I think the Hightowers are damn shifty and have suspect origins and connections. It also boosts and idea that I have read somewhere else that Malora "the Made Maid" Hightower could be the shadow woman in Aeron's vision.

The problem I have with it being the base of Hightower is that there seems to be a deliberate confusion going on in A World of Ice and Fire between the oily blacks tone found in some places and the smooth black stone associated with Valyrian construction. Even though the narrator sites a scholar who associated the oily stone of the Seatone Chair with the glassy stone of the base of the Hightower, it appears that they are different things. Five Forts and the base of the Hightower appear to be Valyrian style glassy stone (which is clearly not Valyrian but pre-Vayrian.) The Seastone Chair, the oily toad statue, the stone of the building Asshai and Yeen appear to be oily. I think the oily stone is likely remnants of the former second moon, so it would qualify as falling out of the sky. So, going to bed after responding to @Masha's post it hit me, The Black Stone the Bloodstone Emperor forced people to worship was likely the Serastone Chair. After all we are told the First Men found it when they arrived in Westeros.

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1 hour ago, Durran Durrandon said:

[snipped for length]

The Seastone Chair being the "black stone" is an amazing and totally GRRM-esque idea.

Especially when we take into consideration the other prominent constructions using this oily-black stone:

Asshai - The black stone of Asshai is specifically said to seem to drink in light, giving the city it's dark and creepy appearance .There does not seem to be any vegetation there at all, and no human children either. We know that all manner of sinister magics can be practiced in Asshai, no matter how depraved.

Yeen - Again a cursed city, where no plant or human life can flourish. IIRC, Nymeria and her people tried and abandoned the attempt to settle there.

There definitely looks like there is some connection with the oily-black stone and death, darkness and evil sorcery (which is precisely what the BSE's reign which ushered the Long Night looked like)

The base of Hightower could be the same stone, as the Ironborn Maester who suggests that there is a connection between them also posits that the Deep Ones are responsible for these constructions, and I think some descendants of theirs are said to be living on the Toad Island.

Looks like some really, really interesting stuff will go down at Oldtown in TWOW :)

 

And on the subject of the pale flames:

(I already posted this in the Aeron 1  thread, but I'll post it here again)

From Jon VI, ADWD, where he mistakes Melisandre for Ygritte:

The mist rose from her pale flesh, and for a moment it seemed as if pale, sorcerous flames were playing about her fingers.

I don't think Melisandre herself might be the "woman with hands of pale fire" (Mad Maid Hightower is not a bad idea at all) but we have an instance of pale fire not being associated with Dawn.

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10 hours ago, Durran Durrandon said:


Earlier in this thread, @Masha mentioned the possibility that the base of the Hightower, which is made of black stone, could be the Black Stone. I think that idea has merit, largely because I think the Hightowers are damn shifty and have suspect origins and connections. It also boosts and idea that I have read somewhere else that Malora "the Made Maid" Hightower could be the shadow woman in Aeron's vision.

The problem I have with it being the base of Hightower is that there seems to be a deliberate confusion going on in A World of Ice and Fire between the oily blacks tone found in some places and the smooth black stone associated with Valyrian construction. Even though the narrator sites a scholar who associated the oily stone of the Seatone Chair with the glassy stone of the base of the Hightower, it appears that they are different things. Five Forts and the base of the Hightower appear to be Valyrian style glassy stone (which is clearly not Valyrian but pre-Vayrian.) The Seastone Chair, the oily toad statue, the stone of the building Asshai and Yeen appear to be oily. I think the oily stone is likely remnants of the former second moon, so it would qualify as falling out of the sky. So, going to bed after responding to @Masha's post it hit me, The Black Stone the Bloodstone Emperor forced people to worship was likely the Serastone Chair. After all we are told the First Men found it when they arrived in Westeros.

Yes on Seastone Chair possibility made of Black Stone, No on Bloodstone Emperor - thats different side of the world, its geographical location is closer to China/Mongolia and Westeros/Seastone Chair is England/Norway. 

 

9 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

The Seastone Chair being the "black stone" is an amazing and totally GRRM-esque idea.

Especially when we take into consideration the other prominent constructions using this oily-black stone:

Asshai - The black stone of Asshai is specifically said to seem to drink in light, giving the city it's dark and creepy appearance .There does not seem to be any vegetation there at all, and no human children either. We know that all manner of sinister magics can be practiced in Asshai, no matter how depraved.

Yeen - Again a cursed city, where no plant or human life can flourish. IIRC, Nymeria and her people tried and abandoned the attempt to settle there.

There definitely looks like there is some connection with the oily-black stone and death, darkness and evil sorcery (which is precisely what the BSE's reign which ushered the Long Night looked like)

The base of Hightower could be the same stone, as the Ironborn Maester who suggests that there is a connection between them also posits that the Deep Ones are responsible for these constructions, and I think some descendants of theirs are said to be living on the Toad Island.

Looks like some really, really interesting stuff will go down at Oldtown in TWOW :)

 

And on the subject of the pale flames:

(I already posted this in the Aeron 1  thread, but I'll post it here again)

From Jon VI, ADWD, where he mistakes Melisandre for Ygritte:

The mist rose from her pale flesh, and for a moment it seemed as if pale, sorcerous flames were playing about her fingers.

I don't think Melisandre herself might be the "woman with hands of pale fire" (Mad Maid Hightower is not a bad idea at all) but we have an instance of pale fire not being associated with Dawn.

There is some weird magical staff going on with those Black Oily stones being threwn all over Planetos. And they predate most of Westerosi and Essos' civilizations including First Men. There might be someone else involved whom we haven't met yet (not CotF or Giants) but something earlier.

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1 hour ago, Masha said:

Yes on Seastone Chair possibility made of Black Stone, No on Bloodstone Emperor - thats different side of the world, its geographical location is closer to China/Mongolia and Westeros/Seastone Chair is England/Norway. 

 

There is some weird magical staff going on with those Black Oily stones being threwn all over Planetos. And they predate most of Westerosi and Essos' civilizations including First Men. There might be someone else involved whom we haven't met yet (not CotF or Giants) but something earlier.


True, yet people sail to Asshai. The Black Stone if it is the Seastone Chair could have been moved. The people of the Golden Empire of the Dawn, who built the Five Forts had a powerful magical technology kit. The construction seems to be similar to Valyrian construction which used dragon flame. So the GED either had dragons or magic of similar potency. The base of the Hightower seems to be built of similar non-Valyrian, but Valyrian-esque, stone so it could be natural phenomenon made by fire worms or something, or it could have been constructed by the same people who came to Westeros for some purpose. So, what I'm suggesting is that the Seastone Chair might have been brought there for some purpose, by people that well may have had dragons, but certainly had ships to transport such things and move about. Maybe it was originally the Bloodstone Emperor's throne in Asshai. Who knows really? But I think it was made of oily black stone, and I think all of the oily black stone fell from the sky when the second moon was destroyed. So, it is an oily black stone that fell from the sky and Euron has it. 

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On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 7:49 PM, chrisdaw said:

He wants a child by her, because by sacrificing his and her child (his blood + dragon blood) he believes he can become a dragon (fly). Fire for blood, blood for fire. And he's close enough to being right, it's what happened to Drogo.

Interesting.  Could there perhaps be some prophesy that has already been fulfilled through Drogo's sacrifice which Euron doesn't realize has already been fulfilled and thinks may pertain to him?

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8 hours ago, Duncan_The_Short said:

Interesting.  Could there perhaps be some prophesy that has already been fulfilled through Drogo's sacrifice which Euron doesn't realize has already been fulfilled and thinks may pertain to him?

It's a formula, independent of any prophesy.

Sacrifice dragon baby + blood magic = father (and maybe baby) can skinchange the dragon, but he has to die too, a second life as the dragon.

Dany was obviously not the first, as in her wake the dragon dream during or just after having given birth to dead dragon Rhaego baby in MMD's tent of blood magic, the Valyrians/Targs of old are watching her, urging her on, urging her to wake the dragon. This is how it's done, how it was always done. Two kings to wake the dragon from stone.

Though he doesn't seem to be fully there yet, Euron has caught wind of how it all works, how he knows is a good question. Perhaps he pulled the info from the warlocks when he took their horn, perhaps being a skinchanger and thus generally having the feeling about how a second life works (see Varamyr) and some knowledge of blood magic made him start contemplating the possibilities. Perhaps the pale fire hands woman is feeding him the information.

However he's come by the knowledge, he's worked out that to 'fly', that is to skinchange the dragon, he needs a dragon blood baby to sacrifice. A heir worth of 'him', him being Drogon. And when his horn blower died, he learned that it's a one way skinchange, suicide, a leap from a tall tower.

Watch him use Falia and his kraken blood baby inside of her to skinchange a kraken. It'll be the same formula, only not a one way ticket. But he's not satisfied with a kraken, he's a crazy dreamer without boundaries, he wants to test the limits, he wants to fly, he wants a dragon, and for that he needs a dragon blood baby, hence what he wants with Dany.

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On 20.7.2016 at 7:40 AM, Durran Durrandon said:

Well, from Dario, maybe. I can only imagine Euron has plenty of his own.

 

no he wears valayrian condom 

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