Wall Flower Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: And you know that how? Where it was mentioned? Does anyone in the series have ever mentioned that Aerys disinherited Rhaegar and his children? Because from all he knew Lyanna was killed. Where it was said that Robert blamed the children for what Rhaegar had done? Not true. Ned himself had told that Robert loved Lyanna more than Ned loved Lyanna. You can imagine whatever you want. How do you know that? How do you know that Lyanna was afraid about Robert and not about the Martells for example? Ned had lost more because he had also lost his father and brother at Targaryen hands. Maybe blame wasn't the correct word but Robert was certainly extending his hatred of Rhaegar to the man's innocent children, when he dismissed them as 'dragonspawn'. Irrespective of the actual characters of Ned and Robert, it's unlikely that the KG at the TOJ could afford to trust men they must have viewed as usurpers and rebels, especially after the murder of Rhaegar's family in KL. Why would the KG and Lyanna not have feared that Jon might share the same fate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 8 hours ago, Wall Flower said: Maybe blame wasn't the correct word but Robert was certainly extending his hatred of Rhaegar to the man's innocent children, when he dismissed them as 'dragonspawn'. Which even if it is wrong it's a human thing. Just like how people blame all of the Freys for what Walder did and want to see them all dead. 8 hours ago, Wall Flower said: Irrespective of the actual characters of Ned and Robert, it's unlikely that the KG at the TOJ could afford to trust men they must have viewed as usurpers and rebels, especially after the murder of Rhaegar's family in KL. Why would the KG and Lyanna not have feared that Jon might share the same fate? That isn't what I meant. I was talking why Lyanna should be afraid of Robert and not afraid of everyone else like the Martells, Tywin and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Snow Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I also think this is strange and don't understand why there had to be a fight to the death when Ned was the child's uncle. They could have at least had a conversation about it first. That's why I still believe Arthur is alive and in hiding somewhere, that he, Ned and Howland eventually reached an agreement about what was to happen to the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 9 minutes ago, Lady Snow said: Ned was the child's uncle That doesn't mean anything. Aemond was Lucerys' uncle and he killed him, Aegon II was Aegon's uncle and was ready to kill him, Maegor was Aegon's uncle and he killed him, Gerold was Cerelle's uncle and he most likely killed her. In Westeros family is as dangerous as the enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Snow Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: That doesn't mean anything. Aemond was Lucerys' uncle and he killed him, Aegon II was Aegon's uncle and was ready to kill him, Maegor was Aegon's uncle and he killed him, Gerold was Cerelle's uncle and he most likely killed her. In Westeros family is as dangerous as the enemies. Not Stark family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, Lady Snow said: Not Stark family. That doesn't mean something. We don't know that and there was no reason for them to trust her and they have no reason to allow one of the Rebels near their King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 On 19/08/2016 at 7:03 PM, Blackfish Tully said: The King can appoint Moon Boy as his heir if he wants to but that does not mean everybody has to accept it . Rhaegar did not need his father's permission to marry Lyanna and frankly the only thing that really matters is what Arthur Dayne believes and as far as i can tell he believed that Jon was the King and in that case handing his King over to the right hand man (no matter his relationship to Jon) of the Usurper who's men already murdered two of Rhaegar's children just is not something he could possibly do being who he is . The crown prince hold no authority until his father, the king is alive. He's the king's subject like all other people and he's got to obey to him in everything. I am pretty sure that Rhaegar didn't want to marry Elia just as Aerys didn't want to marry his own sister before him. A crown prince can of course defy the king by rebelling to his orders but that could lead to consequences including ending up being disinherited or even killed. Under such circumstances there's no difference between Rhaegar and lets say Robert who both ruled/would be ruling by right of conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 3 hours ago, devilish said: The crown prince hold no authority until his father, the king is alive. He's the king's subject like all other people and he's got to obey to him in everything. I am pretty sure that Rhaegar didn't want to marry Elia just as Aerys didn't want to marry his own sister before him. A crown prince can of course defy the king by rebelling to his orders but that could lead to consequences including ending up being disinherited or even killed. Under such circumstances there's no difference between Rhaegar and lets say Robert who both ruled/would be ruling by right of conquest. Frankly none of that has anything to do with what we are talking about . Aerys was dead , Rhaegar and his two children by Elia were dead. The three Kingsguard members were there at the Tower of Joy with Jon who was the last living child of Rhaegar and if Rhaegar had married Lyanna (and there is no reason to think he didn't) then Jon would be the rightful heir to the Iron Throne . Even if they heard about Aerys proclaiming Viserys as the heir it would not matter to them since Aerys and Rhaegar were dead and Jon was Rhaegar;s rightful heir and the rightful King of the Iron Throne . That's why Arthur Dayne could not hand him off to the right hand man of the Usurper who's men had killed Rhaegar's two other children , that's why they had to fight , it's just that simple . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ice Wolf of Loki Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I think something is being missed here. It wasn't just Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy, the Lord Commander of the Kings Guard was there as well. Dayne and Whent would have been following his orders, they may have discussed things among themselves but the White Bull would have been the one calling the shots after news of Rhaegar, Aerys and the Rhaegars childrens deaths reached them. The White Bull would have been the one to decide which potential claimant was the one that they were sworn to and he obviously decided that it wasn't Viserys otherwise they (or at least the one of them) would have abandoned their post at the Tower of Joy and made for Dragonstone. Hightower decided that his vows required all 3 of them to be where they were even though there was no Kings Guard protecting the remnants of the Royal Family at Dragonstone. After putting all his eggs in the tower of joy basket Hightower couldn't take the risk of trusting Ned and his companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.