Best Kings/Queens in Westerosi History?

[sweetsunray]

5 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

That doesn't prove my assumption wrong. It just shows the Northern lords could stop wildlings by themselves, so it works. Well, for the Realm as whole, anyway. IIRC, Jon appealed to all the Northern lords as well as the Kings, I don't see why it would be any different for former LCs.

It worked better before that. It worked less and less, until it was broke. And the smallfolk in the New Gift certainly did not benefit from QA's PR-stunts, on the contrary. Her decisions were not better for the NW, for the smallfolk in the New Gift, for the Wardens of the North, and ultimately for the realm. But it was great propaganda for herself. And imho you cannot judgewhether someone is the best queen ever without judging her for the ramifications of her choices and actions. At best, she paved the road to hell with good but utterly stupid intentions. At worst, she undermined the realm's first line of defense on purpose because she feared the Starks might one day cast their eye in the southern direction instead of North (maybe she read or heard about a prophecy?). What is very clear is that she wished to appropriate the NW to herself with a self-destructive PR stunt, without actually tackling the issue of dwindling numbers and being too far removed in distance to ever give any immediate aid or relief should there be a mass attack. Personally though I give her some benefit of the doubt, in that I think she was manipulated by the Citadel and the 7 and somehow believed there would always be dragons and believed that the Targs could always be the hero of the story against wildlings or other threats by swooping in with dragons. Of course, the Citadel played her well and good with that. In less than 100 years later the dragons were gone.  

[Little Scribe of Naath]

On 10/11/2016 at 1:18 AM, The Grey Wolf said:

For me the big reason why I despise Viserys I is that he single-handedly created the Dance with his bone-headed decisions and then put his head in the sand rather than deal decisively with the situation he created. Honestly, I can't help but feel sympathetic to Alicent for having to put up with how he treated her like a a glorified mistress.

As for Maekar I'd easily say he is one of the top five Targaryen kings. He ruled for twelve years that was preceded by plague, drought, Ironborn reaving, and two Blackfyre Rebellions yet that whole period (apart from the fall of the Lothstons and the Peake Uprising) was peaceful. Not to mention Maekar was energetic, possibly the most dutiful monarch to sit the Iron Throne, and, unlike his father and son, didn't drag the continent into civil war with any controversial reforms. 

Seriously, if one wants to imagine what Stannis's reign would be like without TWo5K look to Maekar, only with far more legal changes obviously.  

What's your top 5 list?

Actually, now that I think about it....were there more than 5-6 Targ Kings who were actually good for the realm? Jaehaerys I, Viserys II and Maekar I  I think most people will agree on....then one can say Aegon V and Daeron II had good intentions atleast. Viserys I is controversial, as you pointed out, and Aerys II's reign was pretty good (until the end) but much of that can be attributed to Tywin. Jaehaerys II's reign was short but decent as well, we can say that. 

[The Grey Wolf]

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

What's your top 5 list?

Actually, now that I think about it....were there more than 5-6 Targ Kings who were actually good for the realm? Jaehaerys I, Viserys II and Maekar I  I think most people will agree on....then one can say Aegon V and Daeron II had good intentions atleast. Viserys I is controversial, as you pointed out, and Aerys II's reign was pretty good (until the end) but much of that can be attributed to Tywin. Jaehaerys II's reign was short but decent as well, we can say that. 

Terribly sorry for the late reply. My hard drive died and I had to get my data transferred to a new computer. Anyway, my top five would be:

1. Jaehaerys I (Over fifty years of (productive!) peace, reconciliation with the Faith, construction projects, banning the Long Night, attempting to help the Night's Watch)

2. Viserys II (For holding the realm together during the reigns of Aegon III, Daeron I, and Baelor I as well as the amount of shit he got done in just one year)

3. Aegon I (Conquered six of the Seven Kingdoms, went on progresses and won over the hearts and minds of the people, kept peace with the Faith, allowed Rhaenys to pass progressive (for Westeros) laws like the Rule of Six and banning the Ironborn from seizing Westerosi women, allowed Visenya to create the Kingsguard, began construction of King's Landing)

4. Maekar (See my previous post)

5. Aegon III (Despite the conditions behind his ascension and the personal pain he carried with him all his life he managed to restore in less than two generations enough prosperity that Daeron I was able to lose 60000 men and the realm was still ready to continue the fight)

Aegon I, Jaehaerys I, Aegon III, Viserys II, Daeron II, Maekar I, Aegon V, and Jaehaerys II were I think good for the realm despite whatever mistakes they may have made. The rest run the gamut for me from atrocious (Maegor I, Aenys I, Aerys I, Aerys II, Aegon IV, Aegon II/Rhaenyra) to controversial (Daeron I, Baelor I, Viserys I)

[Little Scribe of Naath]

3 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said:

Terribly sorry for the late reply. My hard drive died and I had to get my data transferred to a new computer. Anyway, my top five would be:

1. Jaehaerys I (Over fifty years of (productive!) peace, reconciliation with the Faith, construction projects, banning the Long Night, attempting to help the Night's Watch)

2. Viserys II (For holding the realm together during the reigns of Aegon III, Daeron I, and Baelor I as well as the amount of shit he got done in just one year)

3. Aegon I (Conquered six of the Seven Kingdoms, went on progresses and won over the hearts and minds of the people, kept peace with the Faith, allowed Rhaenys to pass progressive (for Westeros) laws like the Rule of Six and banning the Ironborn from seizing Westerosi women, allowed Visenya to create the Kingsguard, began construction of King's Landing)

4. Maekar (See my previous post)

5. Aegon III (Despite the conditions behind his ascension and the personal pain he carried with him all his life he managed to restore in less than two generations enough prosperity that Daeron I was able to lose 60000 men and the realm was still ready to continue the fight)

Aegon I, Jaehaerys I, Aegon III, Viserys II, Daeron II, Maekar I, Aegon V, and Jaehaerys II were I think good for the realm despite whatever mistakes they may have made. The rest run the gamut for me from atrocious (Maegor I, Aenys I, Aerys I, Aerys II, Aegon IV, Aegon II/Rhaenyra) to controversial (Daeron I, Baelor I, Viserys I)

Nice! I'd put Maekar above Aegon I, and probably Daeron II in place of Aegon III.

I had forgotten Aegon III, actually. He tried his best to do a good job, considering he followed a very tumultuous period in history. But IIRC most of the ruling during his period was done by Viserys II.

[John Doe]

1. Aegon I.

2. Jahaerys I. 

3. Viserys II. 

4. Dareon II. 

5. Obviously it has to be the Mannis for saving the Watch

[The Grey Wolf]

On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Nice! I'd put Maekar above Aegon I, and probably Daeron II in place of Aegon III.

I had forgotten Aegon III, actually. He tried his best to do a good job, considering he followed a very tumultuous period in history. But IIRC most of the ruling during his period was done by Viserys II.

I put Aegon I above Maekar I because as the first king he had a much tougher job to do as ruler so even though he made far more mistakes (his approach to the First Dornish War, failing to come to a permanent solution to the problem of the Faith, leaving the laws of Westeros not unified, having only two children, and not doing enough to ward off the conflict between the line of Rhaenys and the line of Visenya) I'm willing to forgive them, especially since we know so little about Maekar's reign in comparison except that the Lothsons fell, the Peakes rose in rebellion at the end, resulting in his death without a named heir, and a seven year summer was followed by a short autumn and a long terrible winter.

As for Daeron II I've made it clear why I don't have him in my top five in my posts on his namesake, the Young Dragon. Daeron II was a good king for Westeros and I applaud his accomplishments as well as his dedication to good rule, particularly in rooting out his father's corruption and learning from experience. However, because of the mistakes he made (chief among them being dragging the realm into civil war because of his policies) I place him in my reckoning behind Aegon III, .

To provide specifics these are the mistakes I think Daeron II made:

1. Over representation of Dorne in his court

2. His peace treaty was too conciliatory to the Dornish without anything to show for the 7K apart from himself

3. Possible cherry-picking of his father's will

4. Not providing any sort of justice for the 60000 men who died with his namesake, whose sacrifice the Iron Throne had twice spat on, first unintentionally by Baelor making an unconditional peace and second (also unintentionally) by Daeron II, who didn't understand how those who'd fought in the Conquest of Dorne were seeing his policies

5. He knew there was significant discontent over his policies and patronage yet he didn't do anything to explain himself or win over to his side those disgruntled with him in the ten years preceding the First Blackfyre Rebellion, which is my biggest gripe

 

[Goldhands]

1. Jaehaerys I

2. Stannis I

3. Aegon I

4. Viserys II

5. Daeron II