Bowen Marsh is an idiot (Spoilers)

[the snow dragon]

@Lord Varys      you are making the same argument again. Being powerful doesn't give automatic authority to throne.as you have pointed out about faith enjoyed cetain privileges that were taken from them you are proving my point. Faith continued to act independent of throne until targarians made a rule against it and then enforced it.faith didn't stoped automatically when iron throne become way more powerfull. Same is true for nights watch.Until and unless a king decrees that watch is now subservient to throne and then enfoce it, their is no reason to not believe that they are independent.their indepence may be just on paper but it is still their. To remove it,As you have said, some procedures must be followed first.

Your argument that tywen didn't give direct orders because wall is to far away doesn't holds water.Wall is not far away from Winterfell. If throne can give direct oders to Winterfell then it can give to nights watch. Yet it doesn't give because by law it cannot give. If you say that nights watch is not capable of doing anything then why is tywen giving vield threats so his man could be elected lord commander?

Next you say that jon sent mance to abduct the bolten bride but  i didn't read that anywhere in the books.Mance was sent to rescue  a girl on dying horse near long lake.Mance demanded spear wives stating that a girl would trust women more easily then lord of bones. Now mance going to Winterfell seems on his own voilition.Jon himself wonders where he has gone. Jon can be guilty of thinking about his sister but he isn't guilty of Winterfell afair.

one more thing, mance is not a deserter of the Night's watch anymore because his crimes were pardoned by stanis. He is also no longer a part of watch because he is now under the command of stanis.  for his actions stanis is responsible not jon.                                                            One last thing, mance helped escaped farya not abducted or kidnapped her.this distinction might be lost on boltens but it shouldn't be lost on you.

 

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, the snow dragon said:

@Lord Varys      you are making the same argument again. Being powerful doesn't give automatic authority to throne.as you have pointed out about faith enjoyed cetain privileges that were taken from them you are proving my point. Faith continued to act independent of throne until targarians made a rule against it and then enforced it.faith didn't stoped automatically when iron throne become way more powerfull.

You have misunderstood my point. The Faith was subject to the Iron Throne, it just retained certain privileges until those, too, where taken away by the kings. This was a way to illustrate that the NW does not have to have the same relationship with the Iron Throne as, say, a household knight of the king or his Kingsguard and still be subject to its rule.

2 hours ago, the snow dragon said:

Same is true for nights watch.Until and unless a king decrees that watch is now subservient to throne and then enfoce it, their is no reason to not believe that they are independent.their indepence may be just on paper but it is still their. To remove it,As you have said, some procedures must be followed first.

 

But nothing indicates that the NW is independent. If it was then Stannis and Jon would be of equal rank. He would not have to bent the knee in front of Stannis. They would be two monarchs talking to each other. When a Sealord of Braavos or a triarch of Volantis visits KL he would be treated by the king as an equal, not as a subject. But the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch is not treated in such a fashion by the kings.

2 hours ago, the snow dragon said:

 

Your argument that tywen didn't give direct orders because wall is to far away doesn't holds water.Wall is not far away from Winterfell. If throne can give direct oders to Winterfell then it can give to nights watch. Yet it doesn't give because by law it cannot give. If you say that nights watch is not capable of doing anything then why is tywen giving vield threats so his man could be elected lord commander?

Winterfell is already at the end of the world. They are subject to the Iron Throne, of course, but if there is a time of crisis and the relations are bad then a Lord Stark could easily enough ignore a command given by the Iron Throne and get away with it.

In addition, it is quite clear that the NW has certain privileges about what kings and lords can expect of them. They guard the border and do nothing else. If a king suddenly decided to command them to march to Dorne they certainly would have a right to be confused about that to say the least.

About Tywin's rationale you would have to ask the guy.

2 hours ago, the snow dragon said:

Next you say that jon sent mance to abduct the bolten bride but  i didn't read that anywhere in the books.Mance was sent to rescue  a girl on dying horse near long lake.Mance demanded spear wives stating that a girl would trust women more easily then lord of bones. Now mance going to Winterfell seems on his own voilition.Jon himself wonders where he has gone. Jon can be guilty of thinking about his sister but he isn't guilty of Winterfell afair.

 

Even if this is true - and I actually doubt that Mance went to Winterfell by his own volition. He was sent to save Arya and tried his best to do. The fact that he took the women with him basically proves that. He always intended to use them to make contact with Arya in Winterfell. A girl on a dying horse on the road could not hope to escape Mance Rayder. And if she can't escape him he doesn't need her to trust him because he can then just take her and tell him who he is and what he intends.

He probably went down south and then learned that Arya was still at Winterfell, meaning that the girl would only ride the dying horse after he had saved her. Nobody ever said anything about the vision being a vision of the present or Arya being able to escape Winterfell all by herself.

But even if I'm wrong there and Mance made that decision completely by himself Jon is still guilty by association. We all share the view of the Martells that Tywin is guilty of murdering Elia and her children even despite the fact that he claims he never specifically commanded Elia's murder. Mance was Jon's man when he went to Winterfell, and thus the Boltons have no every right to their revenge of Jon. That's how this world works.

2 hours ago, the snow dragon said:

one more thing, mance is not a deserter of the Night's watch anymore because his crimes were pardoned by stanis. He is also no longer a part of watch because he is now under the command of stanis.  for his actions stanis is responsible not jon.                                                            One last thing, mance helped escaped farya not abducted or kidnapped her.this distinction might be lost on boltens but it shouldn't be lost on you.

Stannis was not involved in the Mance mission, Melisandre and Jon were. And Jon was the one who made that decision, which later Mance or one of the women told Ramsay. Else he would not have mentioned any of that in his letter.

I know that Mance went there to save 'Arya' but that meant he abducted the lawful lady wife of Lord Ramsay Bolton of Winterfell. That is a crime. Jeyne married Ramsay and is thus now basically his property. He decides where she goes not she herself.

[Bowen Marsh]

On 4/28/2017 at 10:49 PM, James Steller said:

Yes, how DARE someone take advantage of the Boltons' hospitality! That pure and innocent house of Bolton, who seek only to provide the world with all the 80s soft pop music we could ever need!

And you'd rather have the Stark's elevator music? 

And forget asking any of those miserable wildlings about how deadly the Others are, and what they'll do to the humans if they get past the Wall! But who's gonna trust the word of thousands of men, women, or children, right? Nah, they're not clean and good like the various rapists, thieves, and murderers that make up the Night's Watch.

Let's make it official:

 

Bowen of House Marsh, I name you bigot.

I'll not strike you down for your inflammatory remarks.  My sacred oaths will be honored.  Do call me when the day comes that you find a blue rose on your daughter's bed and she's nowhere to be found.  I shall hunt down the free folk who did it and bring them to justice.

 

[Traverys]

1 hour ago, Bowen Marsh said:

 

I was hoping you would reply to this. Your response on the "dullest POV" (Jon Snow) cracked me up.