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Marcus

Westeros M2:TW mod

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Is there a way to build in the High Septon and his religious warriors? He becomes an important part of the books at the end of AFFC. Maybe we could do it by creating special units, available only to the factions that worship the Seven. There would be a unit-type of religious knights for The Warrior's Sons and a unit-type of religious fanatics for The Poor Fellows. And perhaps we could give them a fairly high probability of becoming heretics, to mimic the threat they pose to the Iron Throne in the books.

Update: Names put in (what a tedious long chore)

Good work. I got tired just typing up the list of names for The Reach. I can imagine how long it must have taken to _code_all_ the names. Future users of the mod salute you.

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It's probably way ahead of time, but I was going to volunteer to do the write up (or at least some of them) of the faction descriptions and stuff that will appear in the faction-selection screens. Now that we are moving more into the nitty-gritty of the game mechanics (not my area of expertise) I feel my contributions are going to be more limited otherwise :(

Does the text of these appear anywhere else? I was thinking of looking at the existing descriptions for the Med 2 factions to get a handle on how long they should be, what information should be included etc.

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I was hoping to volunteer for the same task, but I know with Wert doing it it will be quality. ;) If you need or want help, though, please give me a shout.

I believe the faction/unit descriptions that appeared on IGN as previews are the text files for the unit descriptions in game.

For example, Spain:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/744/744770p1.html

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Hey Chewie... I don't know if you've checked your PMs, but I've been awaiting the map files so i can get started on the height map and stuff :)

Yeah I just sent them to Marcus so he has the latest batch.

Okay, for faction descriptions, here is how the format goes for the M2TW ones. I do think you can make them longer if you choose to. Note that \n designates an end-line so \n\n makes a break.

England:

Having recently wrestled control of England from the Saxons, many would expect the conquering Normans to be somewhat spent and weakened. However, the new rulers of England have swiftly replaced and improved the taxation system so as to replenish their coffers in quick time. Most importantly, William the Conqueror came with the support of the Pope, as well as a mixed force of well-trained infantry, archers and heavy cavalry. England's new masters have a more modern approach to the art of warfare, and the will to utilise the country's rich resources to maximum effect.\n\nThe English court may now speak French, but the Normans certainly don't consider their new conquest a French territory. This independence in England, plus the proximity of Normandy to other lands the French monarchy consider their own, makes France an immediate and obvious threat to deal with. The ever stubborn Scottish also prevent the King of England from having uncontested control of the British Isles.\n\nThough they presently face trouble on multiple fronts, the English are in a rather promising position. The Scots to the north are isolated from the rest of Europe, and should be easy to wear down without a strong ally from the mainland. The French royal forces are more than a match for the armies in Normandy, but they also have enough fronts to deal with right now that they are unlikely to be able to drive them from the continent anytime soon.

French:

France is a shining example of feudalism in its rawest, and arguably, most delicate form. The French lords eagerly embrace the system that splits the country up into smaller provinces, duchies and fiefdoms, actively building up their forces to ensure their own security and power. About the only thing the French lack at this point is a sense of unity...\n\nThe Ile de France may be where the monarchy resides, but the royal family rarely leave Paris. This is not because of a great love for the city, but rather because the surrounding lands are under the shadow of bastions owned by "Robber Barons" that serve their own interests. Frankly, the way things are now, the King isn't truly safe to wander a kingdom that is supposedly his.\n\nThe Normans are clearly serving their own best interests, having recently taken England for themselves, it's hard to believe that they will be content to stop there. Other provinces such as Aquitaine, Burgundy, Brittany and Flanders aren't quite so dangerously ambitious... exercising a little authority over these lands looks like an essential move for the French if they're to have any hope of creating a power base that can stave off the might of the Holy Roman Empire to the east. Even less pressing concerns like Spanish and Milanese expansion will soon become a royal headache for the monarchy if France does not establish solid fronts to the south.

etc. and etc.

Lemme know if you want more.

By the way, with regard to names:

We will need to put more names into the game as well as bynames. First, by more names, I mean more generic names that each side will have to have. Obviously region specific names are great and there are duplicates between factions (such as multiple Jon's), but a list of generic names that a good chunk of factions would have (such as riverlands and crownlands having similar names) would be helpful to boost name totals.

Furthermore, we need more last names. One of the interesting ways that m2TW does this is by using bynames: such examples include "of London" or "de Toulouse" so you'd have people named Henri de Toulouse or Robert of Nottingham etc. Last names even such as "the Vile" etc. can be used to generate characters with last names not associated with houses. Certainly, in ASOIAF, tehre are names such as Raff the Sweetling and so on that could be quite useful.

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I've finally read to the end of the thread, and I have a few comments.

Castle Black, Eastwatch, and the Shadow Tower are classified as castles, but the point is made in the books that the "castles" of the Night's Watch are basically not defendable from an attack from the south. That was done to make sure that the Night's Watch stayed out of Westerosi politics and would never try to conquer any region to the south. So, I would make these locations either wooden castles or palisades. Does the map allow you to put a 700-foot wall across the North?

ETA: Nevermind, I just found the map thread where this is already addressed.

Resources:

I think I remember there being silver mines around White Harbor. ETA: Nevermind, I can't find this anywhere in the books.

Names:

I noticed that some of the names of the Night's Watch members were left out of the region they orignally came from like Cotter for the Iron Isles, Jafer for the Reach, and Donnel for the Westerlands. If you need more names, look at the Night's Watch.

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Hi all,

Two things: praise and a question. First praise: From the discussion, think this is going to be a GREAT mod with alot of attention to detail.

Question: I was curious if any unit skinning has been done yet? I'd love to see some screenshots of skinned units, but not sure if you all are there quite yet? Hadn't seen discussion on skinning in awhile so thought I'd ask.

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Well...

I"ll leave the faction descriptions to others...

Chewie (or our other intrepid modder's) - Can you post a list of the standard resources? It'll make it easier to assign them if we know what we've got to work with. Also, is it possible to customize resources... can we introduce new resources? Also, a basic description of the mechanic would be useful so that we can get a sense of scale and use... i.e. are these supposed to be wherever the things are located, or places specially known for the resource, etc.

Names - As I suggested for first names earlier... if a first name shows up in 3+ lists (i.e. Jon, Rodrik, etc.), I'd add it to all the regions. That should help significantly. Second, the Tower of the Hand provided names for lordly houses only... so names like Pate, Marwyn, Barra, Chett, Pypar, etc. aren't found. There's no good way to collect them all, unless we want to start a temporary side thread somewhere to just have people post the names they remember... and then someone would have to cull through them to eliminate duplicates. As for the wildlings... most of them don't have last names... just appellations. Same goes with most smallfolk. Thus, adding last names like "of White Harbor" or "of King's Landing" would do fine... pretty much anywhere listed as a town or city should function. Then throw in some other ones... like "the Tall" or "the Short", just to round things out.

Next steps - One of the modders might want to start generating a list of the standard traits/characteristics/modifiable stats, so that when we're ready to begin assigning (and/or creating) traits, we'll be ready for it.

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I gave the latest version to Marcus and since I've been EXTREMELY busy the last few weeks, I'm hoping whoever gets the files and becomes the next key guy to do modding will do a good job. Hopefully different parts get split up so we don't see people working on the same thing twice.

Anyways, if you need any help with files and questions make sure to ask me since I've poked around pretty much every single file now.

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Not to sound like an ungrateful asshole when do you expect to be done? Just curious really so I can know when to expect to play it.

with all do respect,

Victarian Steel

Given work only really got underway in earnest on this about a month ago, don't be expecting anything really soon. Most mods have development times that can be compared to full games (2 years+ ). However, I think we'd hope to be done in less time than that and I know there are plans to release stuff periodically (rather than wait until "It's done!" and release everything at once). Marcus is the best person to ask about this though.

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I'm not one of the modders or anything, but I took a gander through the descr_regions file, and have extracted a list of the resources, which should/may be all of them:

amber, chocolate, coal, cotton, dyes, fish, furs, gold, grain, iron, ivory, marble, silk, silver, sugar, sulfur, textiles, timber, tin, tobacco, wine, wool

Now, I'm not sure if more can be added or not, but, in any case, in the standard game resources essentially provide bonuses to trade income. They also permit certain buildings to be built, for instance, if a province contains gold or silver mines can be built, which provides also provides a bonus to income. I don't think there are any other buildings that depend on a certain resource being available in order to be constructed, but I could be wrong.

The resources in the standard game seem to be present if a region is particularly known for that resource, but some are more rare than others. Timber, for instance, shows up in an incredible number of provinces, while, say, sulfur and ivory only show up in a few.

Other than that, I don't really know much more about how the resources work, but hopefully this will be useful and take a little bit of a load off the modders.

Whiteravyn

ETA: Those are the resources which actually appear in a province in the game, there could in fact be others that don't appear, but I wouldn't really know how to check that.

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Ok... things have gone too far for this to die out now. Where is everyone? It seems that Chewie's life/work schedule has knocked him out for a bit, but where're the others? Marcus? Rufats? Anyone?

Let us know what we can do to help and keep the project alive!

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I've been fiddling around with the faction descriptions. I'd assumed everyone else had their heads down with RL issues or were tinkering with other parts of the mod. Over on the totalwarcentre forum where this kicked off, one of the previous modders from the Rome days was trying to get in touch to help out, so definitely interest seems to be building.

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Wert - I certainly hope that's the case. I'd hate to have gotten myself addicted to this game for nothing... :D

Resource info:

The North

* Wool is one important trade item from the North (II: 200)

* There are silversmiths at White Harbor (III: 837)

The Iron Islands

* Iron ore is the chief commodity of the Iron Islands, along with tin and lead (II: 122, 124)

* The sea is harsh around the islands, the soil is poor, and the mines turn out nothing but base metals (II: 125)

* Ships from the Port of Ibben trade at the Iron Islands (II: 126)

* Fish from the sea are abundant enough to sustain the ironborn even in winter (IV: 20)

The Riverlands

* In times of peace fisherfolk in skiffs, grain barges poled downstream, merchants on floating ships, and even brightly painted mummer's boats with quilted sails of many colors could be found on the rivers (III: 20)

* With so much trade on the rivers, villagers will haul their grain and other goods to it to see it sold and carried elsewhere by the merchants (III: 126)

The Vale

* Wheat, corn, and barley. Not even in Highgarden do the pumpkins grow any larger nor is the fruit any sweeter (I: 303)

The Westerlands

* The westerlands are rich with goldmines (I: 260, 680. II: 408. SSL: 25)

* There are skilled goldsmiths at Lannisport (II: 93)

The Reach

* Many fruits are grown in the Reach such as melons, fireplums, peaches, apples, and grapes (I: 34, etc.)

* Oldtown woodharps are desirable (II: 127)

* The Arbor is said to make the finest of wines, from dry fruity reds to a rich golden vintage (I: 493. II: 423)

The Stormlands

***

Dorne

* Dornish summerwine and red wines are well known (I: 492. II: 91)

* Lemons, olives, and pomegranates come chiefly from Dorne (III: 149)

* Dornish yew is used to make longbows (III: 616)

* Dornish plums (III: 743)

* Strong Dornish wine (III: 747)

So...

amber, chocolate, coal, cotton, dyes, fish, furs, gold, grain, iron, ivory, marble, silk, silver, sugar, sulfur, textiles, timber, tin, tobacco, wine, wool

Well, assuming that these are fixed, I'd leave out chocolate, coal, amber, ivory, marble, silk, sugar, sulfur, and tobacco.

That leaves cotton, dyes, fish, furs, gold, grain, iron, textiles, timber, tin, wine, and wool. Of these, there is only specific mention of fish, furs, gold, grain, iron, timber, tin, and wine.

So, of the specific mentions: furs in the North (and presumably beyond the Wall), fish around the Iron Isles, gold in the Westerlands, grain in the Vale, iron in the Iron Isles, timber in Dorne, tin in the Iron Isles, and wine in Dorne and the Reach.

Further, the assumption is that these represent special resource availabilities... i.e. tradeable commodities. Not just *any* timber, but highly sought after timber... thus, sparse timber resources in Dorne to represent Dornish Yew (highly sought after for bows and such). Normal timber (pines and oaks) seem to be available just about anywhere in Westeros, so no limitations there.

As for the others, we know that wool is available in Westeros, and likely cotton as well. I'd place some wool production in the north, as we know from Bran that the Umbers, Liddles, and other holdings tend to keep sheep in the high valleys and meadows. Other likely locations for wool production would be the Stormlands... land doesn't seem to be used for much else, so might as well graze sheep. *If* cotton is to be found, I'd imagine it'd be in the Reach.

Silks are likely imported from abroad... and the only references we have to fine textiles are from the free cities: Myrish lace.

Fish are likely also to be found in the waters near the Stormlands, King's Landing, the North, the Westerlands, the Reach... pretty much everywhere. But the *special* tradeable concentrations appear to be near the Iron Islands... I might place some near King's Landing as well, given the size of the fishmarket that caused Tyrion such headaches in ACoK.

There's no mention of dyes in the books, but the Riverlands aren't noted as having any tradeable resources, but they are apparently fond of bright colors... given their red mud and diverse flora, I'd imagine that dyes could be found there....

That leaves us with chocolate, coal, amber, ivory, marble, silk, sugar, sulfur, and tobacco. *If* it's possible to alter resources and customize them to Westeros, then perhaps a few of these could be modified...

Since the Vale is apparently the breadbasket, I'd make the Reach the fruit basket. Give them fruit resources... a bit more valuable than wheat.

Dragonstone could be rich in Obsidian... though it's not apparently a desired resource (...yet...), so at this point, it doesn't make sense as a tradeable commodity.

Any other possible resources come to mind?

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Amber exists in Westeros. There's Houge Rogers of Amberly, for example, which rather suggests there's amber in their area.

Dyes certainly exist, too -- where do you think Lommy Greenhands got the green hands? ;) And there's marble all over the place, so there must be some source for it.

My only concerns would be eliminating new world stuff -- chocolate and tobacco -- and stuff we know doesn't fit the pseudo-medieval Europe that is Westeros, such as ivory and silk.

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The amber reference I missed... I know there are dyes around... just didn't know where. That's why I suggested that they be centered around the Riverlands.

... which reminds me, perhaps they should have some fish resources as well... given the Tully's have a leaping trout and all...

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Sorry been REALLY busy lately with work and other duties. I know that I talked with curious to help out doing programming - did you ever get the files or do I need to still send em to you?

I could defenitely use some help in this department.

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Also, I have done a bit of experimenting, and finally understand a bit better how the mechanic works for the resources in the standard game.

They seem to give a set bonus to the income from each province. However, there are specific Merchant characters who can be recruited, similar to Priests, Spies, Assassins, and such. If one of these is placed next to a resource, he will generate extra trade income based on his Finance skill level.

A Merchant may be placed on any resource in any province, the player controlling the Merchant does not need to control the province which contains the resource, however, only one Merchant at a time can generate income from a resource in a province. More income will also be generated if there is a road in the province, and the amount of trade on that road also influences the bonus income.

For instance, there are several levels of roads that are able to be constructed, and each level increases the amount of trade that goes on in the province (and also increases the speed of armies moving on them, but that is beside the point). There are also varying levels of Markets/Bazaars which may be constructed in Cities, these too increase the amount of trade and thus bonus income in the province.

Now, the merchant characters can be assassinated, spied upon, and so forth, or, a rival merchant can attempt to buy them out and take control of the resource which they are exploiting. In this case, the game compares the Finance skill levels of the merchants, gives the player a percentage chance of success in the buyout, then works its magic and determines if the buyout was successfull or not.

Also, about the "specifically known for this resource", not all provinces in the game have a resource, some are completely devoid of anything, and, properly used, they can provide a significant bonus to income, so it makes sense to only put them places specifically known for that resource. Also, individual provinces can hold multiple resources.

Well, that was a bit longer than I expected, let me know if I can try and explain/figure out anything else.

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