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Why do some people have a problem with Sansa?

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On 5/10/2019 at 7:30 AM, Nowy Tends said:

That's nonsense. By virtue of what title? In what capacity? Sansa has a higher position than Jon (I think he's not "officially" Warden of the North).

Besides if he does anything against his cousin who saved his ass from a disaster he caused by not following any battle plan, he will pass for a dangerous wacko.

What I am unclear about is why did Sansa not tell Jon they had an entire additional army in the Vale knights, prior to the Battle of the Bastards.  The battle didn't need to initially be a disaster if Sansa would have just told Jon beforehand.

It is also funny to observe the blatant hypocrisy in Sansa.  Jon asks Sansa and Arya why they don't trust Dany, even though there is no reason not to.  They tell Jon "because she is not one of us".  Then Jon has them swear to not tell his secret, and Sansa tells Tyrion within 15 minutes.  So, it turns out Sansa cannot be trusted.  Does that mean Sansa is "not one of us" as well?

Edited by Rubicante

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On 5/10/2019 at 7:30 AM, Nowy Tends said:

Besides if he does anything against his cousin who saved his ass from a disaster he caused by not following any battle plan, he will pass for a dangerous wacko.

Naw, he'd never harm a hair on his cousin Sweetrobin's head. Oh wait, they're not cousins anymore; no Tullies were involved with Jon. Jon is Sansa's cousin (they share Rickard Stark as a grandfather) and Sansa is Sweetrobin's cousin (they share Hoster Tully as a grandfather), but Jon is not Sweetrobin's cousin since Jon's grandfathers were Rickard Stark and Rickard's killer, Aerys II.

Ok fine, not cousins then, so make it that Jon would never harm a hair on his cousin Gendry's head. :)

They're both descended from Aegon V, so they're cousins of some sort. Since Robert and Rhaegar were second cousins (same great-grandfather, Aegon V), so moving one more generation down from there makes Jon and Gendry third cousins.

They still probably shouldn't marry though, right?  :wub:

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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6 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Naw, he'd never harm a hair on his cousin Sweetrobin's head.

I was talking about Sansa. Sweetrobin is out of the equation, even if the "knights of the Vale" are actually Arryn troops. 

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Sansa in the books is one of my favourite characters, because she's really one of the most realistic characters. People assume that Sansa is being childish when she dreams that Joffrey will be her shining prince in a story. But those stories are written in support of the patriarchal system, designed to control the thoughts and feelings of young girls so that they buy into the way this society works. Sansa dreams of a wonderful wedding to a noble prince because this is the best possible outcome for her in this system - her complicity in marrying someone she doesn't know for political gain is mandatory. It wasn't her fault she reacted like this to Joffrey at first - it was the way it she was taught. Look at Gawain and the green knight as an real life example - on the surface a story about chilvalric romance, but underneath it's a dark lesson in the necessity of wives to satay faithful to their husbands no matter what they might think and feel. This is what noble women of the 13th and 14th centuries were taught almost from birth.

And ultimately we know that beneath Sansa's love of stories lies a genuinely good person, a person who will risk her life to help strangers, weep for margery even though she is freed from Joffrey's torment, try to find the goodness in a soul as black as Sandor Clegane's, and promise to herself that the people will love her rather than fear her, as Cersei tries and fails to instruct her. I have great faith in GRRM to finish Sansa's arc in the books properly, and I do not think it will have anything to do with having people ripped apart by dogs. 

Sansa in the show sucks because D&D never understood her, and simply wanted her to be more like Arya. They had the character raped to accomplish that, and it hasn't even worked. Sansa never does anything particularly intelligent; instead other people compliment her intelligence and behave stupidly so she can look less so by comparison.

The battle of the bastards is a great example. Sansa doesn't tell Jon about the knights of the vale (because mentioning it in the episode would give away the surprise... for the audience) and that in itself is only an issue because she initially turned LF's offer down. She failed to gain any support from the Northern lords (a complete failure in diplomatic ability), she didn't spot LF's scheming in season 7 and had to get Bran to bail her out of trouble. Now in season 8 she hides in the crypts and doesn't comfort anyone (a regression of her character from season 2 since whilst comforting people in need is common courtesy, it's also excellent politics) and is mean and snarky to Danerys because she doesn't like her. Obviously she should have tried to befriend her and only then stab her in the back, but one liners and sarcasm is all that passes for smart these days on GOT.

The character has been battered and inverted by the show and I cannot stand it.   

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