Crackpot Theories... Anyone have a complete list?

[Sarella]

MyDogIsNamedDanerys,

I don't want this to turn into another L+J=R thread, so this is all I will say on the matter:

Dany's vision of a blue rose on a wall of ice only makes sense if Jon is Lyanna's son. Blue roses are associated with Lyanna twice; the crown Rhaegar crowned her queen of love and beauty with, and the flowers she was holding on her deathbed.

Why would three of the KG guard Rhaegar's mistress when (1) Aerys is raving mad and surrounded by caches of wilfyre in KL, (2) Rhaegar is at battle on the Trident, (3) Prince Aegon and Princess Rhaenys have no KG guarding them?

Ned laments the sacrifices he has made to keep his promise to Lyanna. Not telling Robert that Lyanna never loved him is hardly a sacrifice. Dishonoring yourself and your wife, and committing treason against your king and best friend, however, are sacrifices.

Jon has a recurring dream that he is walking through Winterfell looking for someone. But nobody is around. He always finds himself at the crypts. He knows he must go down there but he doesn't want to because he is no Stark and this is not his place. Yet someone down there is calling to him. He is looking for Lyanna but he doesn't know it yet.

Bran has a dream where he meets Ned in the crypts. Ned is sad, and wants to tell Bran something about Jon.

In the black cells Ned considers sending a message to Jon. But doesn't because Varys said he would read it. What would Ned want to write in a letter to Jon that he couldn't risk Varys reading?

In AGOT when Ned thought about each of his children in turn, he left out Jon.

I don't recall it coming up especially when bastards are mentioned...

When going to a whorehouse to visit Robert's bastard, Barra, Ned thinks about the lusts of men and the crazy things they make them do. A vision of Jon's face enters his head. Then he wonders if Rhaegar ever frequented brothels. I can't see what GRRM intended in writing this other than to make the reader think that there is a connection between the lusts of men, Jon Snow, and Rhaegar Targaryen.

If you want to continue this discussion, I am happy to over in the R+L=J thread.

ETA: The main point of my rant was to prove that in no way is E+A=J equally as canon as R+L=J. Not because people like me won't admit it, but because of textual evidence.

ETA2: I don't think L+R=J is canon at all. I'm just saying that there is much more evidence for it than there is for E+A=J, and that the statement that E+A=J is as canon as L+R=J is therefore false.

[Jaime L]

OMG!

That one was for you, Rockroi.

It's a reference to a hilariously awesome spoof thread that parodies all these outrageous theories.

Appreciate the hand.

Though isn't GRRM a Republican?*

Nope, although he's never actually stated his feelings on a lesbocracy.

Always found that odd...

[pwdiii]

You're right though, a promise about Jon makes a lot of sense in this context as well.

A+E = J is far from Crackpot or Crazy. It's about as canon as R+L=J which is to say it's not explicit but it's certainly plausible with the information we're given. Not that the people on the R+L = J forum would ever admit it!

Hey one guy at least would. As I've stated before I personally think R+L=J is true. However until we know that for sure it would be foolish to accept this as a fact. Untill we know for sure I'm willing to listen to other theories esp A+E=J. To be any other way is very close minded.

[Jon Targaryen]

Lemon cakes are the root of all evil.

[Dycedarg]

The entire 'Joffrey was poisoned by himself (or was it Cersei, it seems to change from post to post) via poison in his pie delivered by a cross-dressing maid who wouldn't be introduced until the next book' theory wins for me, though Renly being killed by the Tyrells, Syrio=Jaqen, Not Dead!Ned and Tyrion Targ all run close behind. It appears I've missed at least one new NF thread while I was away though so I could be missing something juicy.

[loyaltothegroupofseventeen]

Unless he is a Faceless Man, I don't think Varys could disguise his round face and fat gut that well.

unless the round face and fat gut are the disguise.

[loyaltothegroupofseventeen]

Lemon cakes are the root of all evil.

i had a crackpot theory that lem lemoncloak was going to wind up finding and working for sansa, because she liked lemon cakes so much.

N+L=J is probably the most crackpot theory i've heard put forward, though odds are it was meant as a joke.

[Dycedarg]

Lemon cakes are the root of all evil.

But... but... what about the secret ending of the series (revealed in SSM #7777777) where Aegon the Conquerer bursts into the Red Keep juggling a bunch of them?

[HarryStark]

i had a crackpot theory that lem lemoncloak was going to wind up finding and working for sansa, because she liked lemon cakes so much.

N+L=J is probably the most crackpot theory i've heard put forward, though odds are it was meant as a joke.

Well, isn't it strange how lemons keep coming up?

Ah yes, the brilliant "Ned warged into Lyanna" theory... I'm assuming that's the one you mean?

[Rockroi]

First of all, I DO NOT want to derail or hijack this thread. But some discussion has come up:

A simple analysis of Ned's character provides the answer to all these questions. If there's anything he values more than his honor, it's the honor of those he loves. If Ned and Ashara were in love, and together they had a bastard child, Ned would feel he shamed himself, but her most of all. Ned protect's Jon's mother's identity to protect her honor.

But ALREADY feels he shamed himself. He ALREADY has a bastard- we’re past that. Why continue to lie to only protect Ashara? To keep from “shaming†her? Okay, but then LATER he shames a COMPLETELY INNOCENT WOMAN!! He tells Robert that Wylla is Jon’s mother! Why shame Wylla is Ned cares so much for another’s honor?

Unless, of course, Jon had some dragon blood in him… and he had to think of a good lie to tell Robert “I hate Targaryens†Baratheon. Then, personal honor kinda has to be damned.

My belief is that R+L was simply an elopement and that Ned found this out at the ToJ…

So, when Ned was down in Dorne tracking down his sister, he also just happened to stop by Ashara Dayne’s place and pick up his bastard son? And when did Ned have time to impregnate this lady? Prior to coming to Dorne? Duing the war? Was it at Harrenhal? Even though Jon is supposedly “younger†than Robb?

A+E = J is far from Crackpot or Crazy.

But it raises far more questions than it answers. That’s my only issue.

And thanks Jaime L. That was great.

[Jakob Lightbringer]

The dragons are an elaborate allegory for nuclear weapons.

[sio]

N+L=J is probably the most crackpot theory i've heard put forward, though odds are it was meant as a joke.

Good Lord, I must need sleep. I thought for a second that you were referring to Nightflyer. Yup, definitely need some shuteye.

[Sarella]

Ah yes, the brilliant "Ned warged into Lyanna" theory... I'm assuming that's the one you mean?

N+L=J is a separate crackpot theory to the "Ned warged into Lyanna" theory. It posits that Ned and Lyanna were in an incestuous relationship and Jon is the product of their incest .

[RedSock in Westeros]

There's also the Benjen+Lyanna=Jon theory, based on the fact that Ben calls Jon "son" at the fest in Winterfell.

[Sarella]

Here's one I just made up. It is great that there is a thread now, where terrible ideas like this belong. Here goes:

The mummers dragon from Dany's prophesy isn't Aegon. It is Viserys.

The man who was crowned in molten gold by Drogo was Aegon.

Viserys and Aegon were switched when they were babies, and then Viserys was switched again with an orphan from flea bottom, who later got his head dashed against a wall by Gregor Clegane. The orphan's mother quite conveniently died in childbirth.

Aegon was taken to safety with Willem Darry, while Viserys was hidden safely by Varys.

Aegon and Viserys both had Targ features. And they were of an age, weren't they? So they could easily pass for one another.

So we can look forward to meeting Viserys in ADWD. Hopefully he is a nicer person than Aegon was.

[pwdiii]

On another post I ran into a guy who thinks the child bones Dany is presented belong to Tyrion. Not my theory but I had to share it.

[Alys Karstark]

If I remember it right, my vote for the worst crackpot theory goes to the "Ned is Gay" topic... That one has absolutely no textual proof and the original poster did not bother backing it up anyway...

[Ser Romin]

You're right though, a promise about Jon makes a lot of sense in this context as well.

A+E = J is far from Crackpot or Crazy. It's about as canon as R+L=J which is to say it's not explicit but it's certainly plausible with the information we're given. Not that the people on the R+L = J forum would ever admit it!

Yeah right. A+E=J is about as true as WMD's in Iraq when compared to R+L=J.

How often does Ned think of Ashara Dayne? If he truly loved her and every time he thought of Jon you'd think he'd think of his son's mother.

Jon is not Ned's kid no matter who's his true parents. He could be Ashara's and Howland Reed's, he could be baby Aegon, he could be R+L, he could be Ser Arthur and Lyanna's child, or Moonboy and Cersei's child (through time travel), but he's 100% not Ned's son. This much is certain given all the hints Martin has put in in regards to Jon's parentage.

[fink ployd]

Alright, scraping the bottom of the barrel here:

3) Jalabar Xho had Jon Arryn killed. Because, well, everyone knows Westrosi lesson #1: You. Do. Not. F***. With. Jalabar. Xho.

5) "Green Dream" is a euphemism for wetting the bed.

10) All of Westeros exists in an autistic boy's snow globe.

17) Ashara slipped.

:)

Pretty crackpot to me also seems the theory that Oberyn's genious plan was that he meant to get killed by the mountain in that way because he could force Gregor to a confession, and get Doran to spring into action.

[Nightflyer]

Most of those are ruled out by reason of not being real theories, just stuff NF comes up with when he's bored to see if he can get anyone to take them seriously.

That may be true of some, but not all. I never said the wire or gorget was magic, unless by that you mean magic trick. Cat and her crew spent the early morning darkness at prayer, they returned to the tent just as dawn was breaking. As they were returning, they could see people in Stannis camp moving about by torchlight. I'm telling you trickery was involved with Renlys armor.

You know, any theory can be twisted to make it look ridiculous. I once posted that Varys might not be human, due to his behavior and his statement that throwing him into the sea would be disappointing. It came back twisted into "Varys is telepathic were-whale", which I admit is funny, but only loosely connected to what I said.