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Rockroi

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    The Rock That Roared

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  1. Rockroi

    Deadwood: The Movie Spoilers

    I agree with that first part insofar as Seth had moved on and that made more sense, story-wise. IF he was still distant to Martha, its sort of this strange appendage in the story. And we would not like Seth so much. We were okay when he was in love with Alma, but with her gone and him being cold to Martha, we would have thought of him as kind of a dick. And Seth was always all about Duty. And punching guys in the face. But, strangely, I did not get the feeling Alma was still pining for Seth. I didn't get much from Alma at all. Again, that's another example of my issues with the story; I don't know why she was there at all until she outbids Hearst so she can have a nice "Objective Fulfilled" green check-mark next to her name for finally getting back at Hearst for buying her land. Or something.
  2. Rockroi

    Deadwood: The Movie Spoilers

    He does "choose" her, but its not out of passion or desire, but out of duty. And you are correct that they could have developed a true romance; that could have happened. My issue is that I want to see the development (impossible for a 2-hour movie, I grant you), and not this "Okay, this is how it is now because the story demands it." One of the major themes in this episode was that Alma WAS the "one that got away" and Seth has to relive that by seeing her again. He still loves Martha; we just don't see how he was able to build that relationship with her given 1) the initial issues between them and 2) the death of their son. Alma was not the only impediment.
  3. Rockroi

    Deadwood: The Movie Spoilers

    I did not get that at all from Martha and Seth at the end of season 3. The entire time I thought that Seth was holding up to his duty to be Martha's husband after the death of his brother (prior to Deadwood). I never got any semblance that they were close. To me, their relationship was cordial and dignified, never warm. And this is what made Alma's situation all the more heartbreaking; she and Seth had the warmer and more passionate relationship. That was contrasted by his dignified and proper relationship with Martha. That was such an integral part of his story; Seth was maintaining his duty to Martha over his desires to Alma. He could either have passion or duty; never both. Now, that's not to say that people cannot grow closer over 10 years. 10 years is a long time. Maybe they did get close. Okay, that's fair. But that's my problem -- I gotta see that growth before I can just accept it. That's what made Seth and Martha so strange to me. Here he was passionately kissing her and holding her and now they have 3 kids (maybe 2, they were utterly unimportant). Okay, I would have liked to see them bridge that gap. But I am being greedy because I can't have that 4th season; I can only have a 2-hour movie so that "flash forward" is what I had to accept. I can accept it, it just leaves a lot to be desired.
  4. Rockroi

    Deadwood: The Movie Spoilers

    Clearly, Jonie was a lesbian from season one and the terrific Bell episode and that she and Jane had been together and established in season 3. That was not my point. I am not saying "They suddenly became lesbians." My point was that the relationship doesn't go anywhere nor further anything else in the story. It's very much like Seth and Martha's relationship. Okay they are together, fine. And their relationship is much closer than it was 10 years earlier. Okay, So, what happened? What's the point? When Seth gets Hearst, Martha shoots him this horrified look. Why? What is it in their relationship that we would need to know that is in jeopardy due to his handling of Hearst? We never know. Their relationship is never integrated into the overall episode, nor in anything involving Alma (which was a shame). Same thing with Jonie and Jane; what is it about their relationship that is interesting or that is integrated into the overall story. It's the opposite; it's just there. As an example, if you edited out Joanie and Jane's scenes together what impact would it have on the story? None. They do not interact in any way with the story between Seth and Hearst or Al. They are this small appendage that in and of itself has very little depth or variety. I sort of left that way about Sol and Trixie as well, but she throws that "A-Pox-On-All-Your-Houses" scene. But even there- if Sol was not in any scenes, would you have missed him? I'm glad he was there - just as I was glad Jonie and Jane were, but I wanted to see them integrated into a wider story and not just "Here is the lesbian couple." That's not in and of itself interesting just as Sol and Trixie being together is not in and of itself interesting. And you could say, "Well that's true of most of the characters in the movie..." and you would be right. And that's really my criticism with this movie; I felt as if it was a whole bunch of "Hey, here is this character you once liked; they are doing much the same thing as before. See? Here s/he is. They are talking like they did before! Nothing has changed!" You have to do more than just show me the characters; they have to actually be involved in the story. And Joanie and Jane - like most of the characters in the episode - weren't.
  5. Rockroi

    Deadwood: The Movie Spoilers

    So, yeah, I feel like I am the wet blanket in this discussion. While I liked what I saw, I thought the episode tried way way way too hard to be a complete story-arc that would substitute for that fourth season we never got INSTEAD of trying to be a good 2-hour episode of Deadwood. The episode was far too reminiscent of what we saw at the end of Season 3- the town must band together against Hearst; in doing so an older, venerable male character is slain; Hearst overshoots his authority; Trixie - for reasons that are completely undefined - makes a play against Hearst and the two must jump through all sorts of hoops to deal with the resulting calamity. And Jane and Jonie are lesbians. Yep. The thread in this story is that Al Swearengen is dying, and that was done reasonably well, but I like my Al Swearengen swearing and fighting and killing. But my problem was that the episode tried so hard to "pick up where we left off" and that just fell flat. It all felt manufactured and stilted. And what was strange was that nobody in the show thought, "Hey this seems like we just did all this 10 years ago." Because they did. Only now the "conflict" is forced and hard to really get deep into. When Elsworth was slain it was the culmination of almost three seasons of tension and even then it was not resolved. Here, the conflict felt strangely manufactured and phony. I thought because they had to fit everyone in, they criminally underutilized everyone. Again, this is natural given the parameters. The show could have used a lot more Dan and Doc. But I did not think anyone was OVERused. The dialog was almost always terrific, but the story itself was flat. And because the story was so simple and plain, we never got the depth we required. Why were Seth and his wife now so close when, before, their relationship was so formal and stilted? Why was Dan dressed up? Seemed sort of important now. How is Sofia? Is Doc still dying from TB? Whaty happened to the Opera company? Oh, and let's not do flashbacks. One thing I always liked about Deadwood was that they showed you ONCE and if you didn't get it, that was your fault. Now? We rewind everything. That looked awful. I also could have done with a LITTLE homage to some of the cast members who passed. No mention of Cy Toliver or Richardson. So much of the movie was still very strong; McShane was aces and so was Oliphant. I liked many of the supporting cast, Alma Garrett and a few others. Wu was great. But I thought the story was an Erzats season 4; a desperate attempt to rectify how season three failed to conclude properly. And this way of trying to shore it all up showed that you cannot just "press pause" on a production and hope to pick it up again 10 years later. All things considered, I thought this was an above-average production, but it was telling a story that would have been an A+ had it been an entire Season 4. And that missed opportunity is one I guess I will never get over.
  6. Before I begin, I just want to thank all the people who left a “like” on my prior review of Episode 5. From what I can gather it had over 40 likes which, from my memory, makes it the most liked comment about any episode. I really appreciate that. I hope I can finish strong. As for tonight... So.. I mean… the episode itself … it wasn’t like drinking turpentine or having your groin attacked by piranha or having to sit through season 5 again, was it? No. I actually thought the finale was the best episode of the season; it answered all of our questions; it ended the story; it started the chapters of the next stories and it basically gave us enough to know where our characters are headed (answer for most: into something really, really dumb). This episode did not make me wish for early death; it did not make me yell at my TV; it did not make me laugh so hard at myself that I cried. No. It was almost mediocre which makes it EASILY the best episode since The Door. It was still sucky, but watching a bunch of idiots act like smart people was practically Hamlet compared to the river of waste we saw in the previous 3 episodes. ANYWAY… let’s, for the last time, light this one up” WHAT I LIKED The Road To Hell …: The central message to Dany’s demise was laid by the best character the show had, Tyrion, when he said, in effect, they created this Frankenstein’s monster. And while this REAKS of apologetics (that I will not let the show get away with- see below), there is some level of truth to it. A person who believes that they are right; who believes in a righteous cause; who believes they have “history on our side” who thinks its okay to punch somebody in the face if you can convince people that that person is “evil;” who think that they can do terrible and horrifying things because, well, they want to “change things” then the rise and fall of Dany Targaryen makes more sense (it still makes no sense, mind you). I thought the way Tyrion expressed Dany’s state of mind was extremely well crafted and sensible. Dany did what she did because she believed she was fighting evil and those who believe they are in a battle with evil can justify their atrocities. Dany- like a person who wishes to censor people who utter unwelcome thoughts - believed she was acting for the best because she knew what was best. For everyone else. TO ME I think that the most apt metaphor in world history would be either the French Revolution or the Russian Revolutions where the ruling class was decimated- root and stem – by people who wanted to “break the wheel.” The French desired to destroy monarchy; the Communists desiring for the workers of the world to unite and throw off their chains. Both brought untold misery and destruction to their brave new worlds. To me, Dany makes the most sense if she is seen on her dragon as a French democrat or a Marxist or as a common era Social Justice Warrior who claims that in order to get the world we want we have to destroy the world we know. Yeah, it never quite works out that way. Sure your dragons may burn a few generations into the ground but you can never change human nature. I thought the show delivered on that piece. The Medium-Sized Counsel: While it made little sense, the meeting at the fire pit I thought was very well done. Tyrion and Jon’s lives are in the balance; I liked how the idea of creating an elective monarchy (not unheard of) was a good touch. I LIKED how Sansa ends up as Queen (not gonna lie, its also sort of lame, but I like Sansa). I though the scene was well done, easy and did not go too deep. Also, liked how when Sam mentioned Democracy, they all laughed at him because … because that’s not how you break the wheel. Good eye. Black Worm: Not everyone comes out for the better. I like how the war made Grey Worm a hard, bitter, angry and violent man. I like that he has no mercy left in him having lost his woman, his Queen and his way. All that's left is the husk of a once good man. Called The Ghost: I said after Jon gave that SUPER lame exit with Ghost that it left open that Jon would return to the Wall after it was all said and done, and I was right. The Book: LOVED that Brienne wrote Jaime’s page in the book and made sure to take two pages. And while he was the Kingslayer he died “Protecting his Queen.” Nice touch. Tyrion Lannister: If there was one character I thought the show saved from its own MONUMENTAL ineptitude, it was Tyrion. That’s in part because of the actor, no doubt. But its also because the show, at the end, kept Tyrion true to his core values; he’s not wicked, he’s not cruel or greedy or even mean. He just wants some level of fairness in this universe. I think Tyrion stayed true to himself while everything – and almost everyone – around him got fucked. I think that’s because the show-runners knew that 1) he was a fan favorite and 2) he was well written by Martin to begin with. They had more to use and appreciate. I liked how he stood up for what was right and then got paid off. Sure, that was semi-ridiculous, but he had one Hand to play so he did the best he could with it. What I Am On the Fence About: Visit Tyrion? We need all your weapons. Visit the Queen? That bazooka You’re Carrying is Good: So, I thought Dany’s end was strangely sad but also REALLY underwhelming. And maybe that was the point. I liked how she finally touched the throne (which she did not do in her season 2 vision). I think the show telegrapher her death 16 miles away by having her specifically NOT sitting in the chair. Further, when Jon walked in he’s got his sword and like 3 knives. So we know what’s going to happen. And somewhere in the back of my mind I heard Jaime say “A Queen should die harder than this…” Kit Harrington was awful. I think he’s not a great actor, but clearly, the material they had for him was terrible. Supposedly MANY actors on the show were unhappy with the final season; the guy who played Varys said as much; Harrington said he would not miss the show at all and Clark gave a SUPER awkward interview for E!. And part of that was how bad the writing got and really it was apparent in that scene with Dany. Sure, Dany said a few things that were nice and sentimental and almost passable, but that scene with Dany exemplified the woodenness of the actors in how they are unable to overcome the bad writing and direction. Dany’s last scene was nice but also very cringe-worthy for those reasons. Also, Drogon should have lit him up, right? That was just major bullshit, right? And no stop-and-frisk the guy who has been acting SUPER sketchy for the last day or so? Nah, he’s good! All Hail King Also-(B)Ran: All I can say is … “meh.” I mean, he’s not an AWFUL choice for King but … he’s kind of a lame (no pun intended) choice. He’s basically King because he has magic powers. Which is fine, b/c Dany was sort of the same way, but he didn’t have anything to do with this. He was basically a decoy for the Night’s King; he was MIA for most of the show; he did not even show up an entire season. I don’t hate the choice, I just think it was, much like the way the show was in the end, extremely mediocre. All Hail, King Bran The Marginally Acceptable! The End of the Six Kingdoms: I think Sansa always planned the way she would exit But I also think that she would have kept the North in had they named her Queen. Regardless, I thought this was an “Oh, by the way…” moment that lacked any weight. Sort of like “Oh, we’re leaving and because it’s the last episode, it doesn’t matter.” This should have been a major blow, but felt tacked on. What I Hated: Cue the Music: I thought that other than Sansa being made Queen, the final scenes were void of anything meaningful. What do we do with Arya! Why, we make her a sailor, of course! Because maritime adventuring was always in her blood! Said nobody ever! Why is Jon wandering into the woods! Because he always wanted to settle Cataan! Of course! Why is Bran King? Meh… Oh, right, forgot I said that already. But it was meaningful and important! Why? Because the show told us with swelling music! Like we were too stupid to figure out the show was over! See, it's meaningful that the last shot (sort of) was exactly like the first one except THE OPPOSITE!!! SEE???? Its come full circle! Thanks I almost missed that ham-fisted trope you brought me back to, you talentless … billionaires… fuck. See, they cannot write anything meaningful; they cannot show us anything meaningful, they cannot make anything meaningful, so they just show random images of Starks walking and then ... swell the music!!!! In a fucking SUPER lame way of trying to get us to FEEL something. But we're numb. The show was not good and nothing they did could put their mess back together again. The fact they relied on the music "See??? This is important!! You can tell ebcause the music is getting louder!!!!" Not because they wrote anything memorable or well done or anything like that. No. That would have required skill. Instead of the story telling us or the actors showing us... the MUSIC has to tell us something is important. The ending was like wall-paper paste; it went on smoothly and without a hitch, but never inspired anything worthwhile. It tried to make my heart think I was watching something great but in the end, I was just listening to the music. It was a lame trick and my mind was not falling for it. Nice trye. And Sailor Arya is fucking stupid. The Nonsense of It All: This is a small thing but once again it shows how much the writers hate the audience and takes us for dupes. The main reason Jon had to be sent to the Wall, we were told, was to keep the Unsullied happy. Okay, that makes some sense. Davos says that the Unsullied should “settle the Reach” which is so fucking stupid because they are eunuchs, but that would require somebody to think of something. Regardless, as bad as that would all be, Jon has to be sent to the Wall (or what’s left of it) because of the Unsullied. Fine. THE. Very. Next. Scene. We see Grey Worm saying to his men that they are sailing for the Isle of Naarth. WTF!!!! Why is Jon being sent to Northern Purgatory again? Because the Unsullied need to be mollified? Why, they are leaving! I sincerely doubt The King-Like Substance of Bran I is supervising an expedition into Naarth. So it safe to assume they are relocating there. SO… if that’s the case. Why do we care what they think of where Jon is?!?!?!?! Just recall him! God this show sucks. You Cannot Un-Ring The Bells: If there is a major flaw in this episode its that it tries- and utterly fails – to justify the prior episode by saying that Dany was bad and that they could make everything right again. Well, no. Instead of having a glorious conclusion to the show, Jon just stabs Dany because that’s all that could be done (other than, you know, having Arya put on Gray Worm’s face and killing Dany and then blaming it on the real Gray Worm). But the point is the show tried to make it all okay in the last episode. Except… it isn’t. The show still felt like it had no idea what it was doing and the end feels like a continuation of that mindless wandering. They may have found a few notable points, but in the end, they seemed like they had to end it this way because it was the simplest way to end this train wreck: bury the dead. Look at the final scene with Dany and Jon: why do they love each other? I never felt for a second that the two of them had anything romantic; the actors never had any chemistry. The show was so bad at SHOWING me they loved each other that they resorted to having to TELL ME they loved each other. So when he is kissing her, its forced and I find it hard to believe that Dany would believe it. The show ruined Dany for that ending because it had no idea how else to end this show. So it sacrificed Dany on that alter and we are now made to believe that that makes this “bittersweet.” How? You ruined it and then expect me to celebrate your carnage? Dany was a great character and you needed an ending so you made her go haywire and are now trying to say, “Well, see, it was kinda because…” No. You don’t get to ruin the character and then cover it up like Watergate. We saw it; we all saw what you did. The ending does not take away that this was generally a very bad season, coming off the heels of season 7 which was also underwhelming. The problem is that the ending does not make this part of the journey any more forgivable. Episode: B- Season: D- Which leads us to…. Was it worth it? IF I had to do it all over again; if I got to experience all of this again knowing what I know now, FUCK YEAH! If only for the fan reactions to the Red Wedding! Seasons 1-3 are masterpieces. Utter masterpieces. Season 4 is great too! Seasons 5-6 are wretch-inducing with only a minor rebound in season 7 before the tragedy now in season 8. Was that worth it? Of course. Why? Because this show existed because of us. By “us” I mean the book readers. But for us nobody gets this. WE did this; WE were the ones that bought those first 3 books in a sea of other, completely forgettable shit sci-fi fantasy. WE pushed this envelope; WE supported the author and made his stock get so high that a show seemed all but assured. WE did that. If his books sat in that mid-range level, there is no Emelia Clark getting stabbed in the belly (good call back, btw; God Jamie rocked); there is no Bran the Broken; there is no Red Wedding reaction shots; there is no arguments over what did THIS mean or could THAT have been done better… … there’s also no shitty rape-scene excuses and no fucking wasting my time in Dorne etc.. but come on! Most of it was watchable and of the stuff that was watchable, 75% of THAT was incredible! Ranking the seasons: 3,2,4,1,6,7,8,5 Final Word: You fucked up Stannis. That’s when I should have known. I should have known then that you were not capable of getting this right. Regardless, they nailed the early stuff, they filled in a few blanks, improved some things, and when the books ran out of the paved road, they were lost. OVERALL SERIES GRADE: B+ Ensconced in the second-tier of very good shows. Thanks for reading. See you all for Winds of Winter, likely on shelves in 2023
  7. The best argument for Dany's insanity is that she can become extremely single-minded. At the House of the Undying she refused to wait for Jorah and ran into an open trap; she did not listen to Marr Dir Durr's warnings that "healing" Drogo would not give her what she wanted; she refused to listen to those who warned her about easy answers for the slave cities. But maybe the easiest example of Dany's insanity that gets glossed over is when she LITERALLY walked into fire believing that the fire she created would birth her three dragons. THAT'S. CRAZY. Its almost (almost) irrelevant that she ended up being 100% right, The fact that she waded into the fire is just as crazy as Brightflame swallowing wildfire. It's not seen as crazy because it worked. However, these do not add up to insanity. For starters, in each of these events, Dany was acting in the furtherance of others - Drogo, her dragons, the slaves, and in the last case, the remnants of her khaldasar. In no case did her actions endanger innocent people (save herself), and in fact, had she taken any other action, it could have lead to the death of innocent people. IN the situation of her walking into the fire and with Drago, we also have to factor in desperation; in these situations, Dany had few if any viable options and she had to act fast. The factors in the Melting of King's Landing is entirely different; Dany was the most powerful person in Westeros at that exact moment; she was not in any danger; her people were in relative safety if not an outright advantage. Dany is certainly not desperate. Further, Dany has WON at the exact moment her heel turn takes place. And finally, Dany is killing innocent people -- the very group she has spent her entire adult life protecting. The showrunners (who seem bored even having to TALK about the show at this point) justify it by saying "At that moment Dany was so badly written we decided, 'Fuck it; she can barely act anyway, lets not even shoot Emilia and just have the CGI people just put in a bunch of fire. Easy Peasy.' Also, we had another conference call with the people at Disney for the Star Wars movies so we mailed all that in. made it personal." What? What is "personal" about killing innocent people? What is the most galling is that the foundation has not been laid to get us to this point. And the reason for that is because Dany's best scenes are the ones written when the books were still in play. After that happened, Dany splintered in the show and they tried to keep her true to what they had (from the books) and make her react properly to the dangers of the world she was in. At no point did the show build up the insane angle. Never did they tale even small steps to present that. The next argument could be "Well, what do you want? Insanity can happen at any time!" And that would be fine if this were a documentary about insanity or a universe (ie: Wheel of Time) where insanity can just strike outright. That is not the world we were placed in; insanity does not strike like lightning. It is, instead, a slow-moving monster OR has been present the whole time. And in this case, if that is the situation you have, you MUST give us one or the other. Either its slowly coming on (ie: the way it did with Aerys) or that character has been nutzoid the whole time (Viserys). None of this was done to this point. This was a poorly done turn not merely because the execution was poorly done; but because the transition was poorly done if doen at all.
  8. My point is that the evidence in that tweet is not evidence that "this" was inside her. It was evident that she did horrible things in a horrible world. She was faced with terrible decisions and at times made very brutal decisions. Which is why I provided the following: 1. Complementary Evidence: I gave many examples where Dany took actions that were forgiving, just, simple and, at times, enlightened. 2. Similar Behavior: I gave examples where other leaders acted in a manner similar to Dany and how that is not evidence of insanity. In other words, Dany displays relatively normal behavior. I recognize that the tweet is not an exhaustive list, but the list is trying to put forth the best arguments in limited space. My response is "These examples don't show insanity." They show harshness; they show violence. But insanity is something I sort of want evidence for. And in this universe not all violence is insane. So while I agree that they executed the turn "poorly" I think its more than just execution; I think they never laid the proper foundation and that left the scene seeming untethered to the underlying story. And from my POV, knowing where they are in the story, it also reeks of desperation.
  9. So going through the list in the tweet (I deleted it for brevity sake) here is your evidence: Season 1: Burns Mirri Maz Durr She executed the person who slew her child and her husband. By this logic, Ned is crazy for executing a deserter and Jon was crazy for executing Janos Slynt. Season 2: Burns House of the Undying This is the same “House of the Undying” that, literally, imprisoned her and kidnapped her dragons and then attempted to use her to control said dragons. She was clearly acting in self-defense unless you think being kidnapped is within the rights of the kidnapper. Again, by this logic, Tyrion acted crazy when Cat kidnapped him and then had Bronn kill that poor, innocent Vale Lord. He should have just accepted his kidnapping. Season 3: Burns Astapor You mean the slavers? You mean the dirty, culturally backward, horrible slavers? Who were slicing off men’s nipples, ordering boys to kill puppies and imprisoning and torturing thousands upon thousands of men and boys? Look, if anyone ever “needed killin’” it was these monsters. Dany did a great service by ripping up their society root and stem. Just ask the unsullied. Again, by this logic, Jon Snow is crazy for killing the people who took over Craster’s Keep- he should have just left that raping band of deserters alone. Season 4: Crucifies the Masters of Meeren After they crucified all those children. Literally goading her. Some punishments – especially in this time and place – have to be proportional. And this one was literally that. Again, by contrast, Robb Stark is crazy for having executed Lord Karstark after Lord Karstark killed the two Lannister hostages. Season 5: Burns Meernise Noblemen This one I vaguely recall; IIRC she, for some reason, called the nobles to seethe dragons and the two dragons roasted one of the nobles. I do not recall why that was done but IIRC it had something to do with challenging her authority or something wit he Sisters of the Harpy. Regardless, these were not complete innocents. However, because I only vaguely remember it I will say that at the time I thought the punishment was especially harsh. This one I am willing to give half-credit on. Season 6: Burns Vaes Dothrak After these Dothrakai had taken her and refused t submit to her authority. Again, by contrast, was Jon Snow crazy for executing Thorne et all (including a little kid, lets not for get that) for their attempt toe execute him? Season 7: Burns Wagon Train In the immortal words of Tyrion Lannister, “I believe they call that war.” This was a battle; completely fair and square; its not her fault her army was better. When the battle was over she allowed her opponents to bend the knee and executed those who did not; something leaders from Ned Stark to Tywin Lannister to Stannis Baratheon had been doing for decades. So, after 7 seasons, one of the most ubiquitous characters has one-half an action that makes us think she could be nuts. Not even close to a good foundation. OTOH, as late as the prior season, Dany allowed captured combatants to bend the knee and submit to her authority, sparing their lives. She took in Tyrion, the brother of the man who slew her father; she took in Barristan Selmy who served Robert Baratheon, the Usurper; she reunited with Jorah Mormont, the man who betrayed her; she freed every slave she ever came in contact with; she allowed various mercenary bands to join her; she avoided casualties in battles whenever she could. And she never, EVER, BBQ’s those who had surrendered. She never killed innocent women and children. She never ever did anything like that. This evidence and this theory are wanting. This was a terrible heel turn with virtually no foundation.
  10. Was that this season? I am not surprised if she said it this season; I would be very surprised if she said something like that in prior seasons. Please let me know when she said that; in all sincereity, I always try to get countervailing info (ie: I once got RIPSHIT when, in the show, the Greatjon referred to Eddard as "Ned" as opposed to "Lord Stark" saying that the book would NEVER do something like that ... only to have it pointed out to me that he said it in the book). I don't ever remember her saying she would raise KL prior to this year, And even with that said, it's one thing to raise a city that's in open defiance to you; it's another thing to raise a city that has completely surrendered to you.
  11. Great question. One thing I notice posters doing is using past actions Dany took and ascribing to them insane motives. However, they rarely do this for other characters in leadership roles (the obvious exception being Cersei... gee... I wonder what those two characters have in common? God, could be anything really) And I wonder if people would ascribe insanity to various decisions other characters had made that are similar to Dany's pre-insane City- burning decisions? Was Robb "crazy" when he ruined the North by tossing his agreement with the Freys? A decision that endangered everyone serving with him? Was Stannis "crazy" when he met with the Red Priestess and slew his brother? Was Balon "crazy" when he (like the complete moron he is) invaded Westeroes proper? Twice? Was Joffery "crazy" when he killed Ned Stark? Was Jon "crazy" when he let Ygritte go or allowed the wildlings passage through the Wall? Was Mance "crazy" when he attacked the Wall and then refused to yield to Stannis leading to his own death? Was Robert "crazy" when he wanted Dany dead? Was Lord Mormont "crazy" for taking the Brothers beyond the Wall? Was Drogo "crazy" for killing Viserys or the wine merchant? Obviously, once Dany decided to flambe King's Landing her insanity was complete. But that is not the question- the question is whether or not the show laid the proper foundation to make her "heel turn" effective. My point is that her "crazy" decisions are all (at least prior to this season) well within the margin of "What Other Leaders Have Done" and while some were severe (nailing the slavers to posts) or violent (the first 'Drogon... dracarys" in Storm of Sword) or unwise (her indecision with the slave cities). But she was never crazy. She never did something utterly untethered to reality; took an action that had no rational basis; acted arbitrarily or capriciously. But because the show did such a disproportional turn, it has sent reasonable fans scrambling to materials trying desperately to justify the very turn. Again, the evidence is minuscule, and when compared to what other (... male... there, I said it) leaders have done, it's by no means precursors to Dany's insanity. Its bad story telling.
  12. IMHO this is not how art should work. When somebody tells a story they have to lay the foundation FIRST so that there is no need for an explanation SECOND. This is why the show is bad -- because good fans like you have to go to the altar of D&D and BEG them for an explanation for their inane babbling. Other fans will parse through interviews and read quotes and watch "behind the scenes" footage to try to glean some knowledge of what they just watched. And that's how far we have fallen; we no longer rely on the story to tell us what's going on; we need the story-tellers to explain to us "Yeah, what the fuck did I just watch?" That's putrid story-telling. When the movie ends, the director does not walk up to the front of the theater and say, "See, the reason X did this was because of the relationship she had with ... and hopefully that will make sense of this..." That's not how you tell a story; that's how you excuse mistakes.
  13. IF that episode were a metaphor for anything it was when Dany said that the people of King’s landing deserve to die for supporting Cersei (showing that Dany DOES NOT understand how monarchies work). Then Dany- true to her bat-shit-crazy word -immolates the city. Because to her they deserved it! And in this metaphor, WE’RE the citizens of King’s Landing and the show is LITERALLY burning us alive for supporting such a terrible fucking show. This is how we have been rewarded. With a complete “Heel Turn” by Dany (GOOD GOD!!!! THAT’S AERYS TARGARYEN’S MUSIC!!!!!). Everything we saw for the last 7 seasons; everything we read for the previous 20 (YUP! Over twenty fucking years since the series started) and NONE OF IT MATTERED!!!! -Jaime saved King’s Landing from Aerys! Doesn’t matter; Dany burned it anyway. -Jon saved the Wall! Doesn’t matter; one of Dany’s undead dragons burned it anyway! -Tyrion killed Tywin! Doesn’t matter he would have died in a fire anyway! -Euron Grayjoy…. No, take that back, that fucker LITERALLY DID NOTHING WORTHWHILE THIS WHOLE SHOW!!! But at least he’s not that Strickland fucker; what a useless appendage. -Tyrion saved King’s Landing from Stannis! Doesn’t matter; Dany burned it anyway! -Arya traveled all the way to the Capital to kill Cersei; doesn’t matter- she left because narrative forces pulled on her! -The Hound finally fought The Mountain! Doesn’t matter; they would have died anyway in a massive fire! Started by Dany! And her fucking Dragon! -Varys is a master of whisperers! Doesn’t matter! She burned him anyway because he was a moron at the end! Nothing mattered. We were rooting for somebody the show decided to “Go Nuts” for no reason and with no warning! There was virtually no realistic set-up for her turn, for her mental destabilization; NOTHING would clue somebody in that she was going crazy! All there was was that she was angry at Cersei and sad for Messandi and her dragon. NOTHING would indicate that she was going to BBQ a city full of innocent people. But, no; it had to burn. See, if the city doesn’t burn than the show-runners have to actually write stuff out! They have to logically complete story lines, full of action, tension, drama and realistic resolution! BUT FUCK THAT !!!! See, these guys NEVER got the show going after George’s words ran out, and tonight was Exhibit 67,932 of “Why They Are Secretly Bad At This!” Because they wasted so much time, crammed everything into this end just to watch Dany and Dragon go house on a city. With no rhyme and no reason. EXCEPT that having it all burn and everyone die (except Arya- perish the fucking thought) can ONLY be accomplished if Dany just goes dumb. So now here we all are- going dumb. What I Liked: The Last Of the Lannister Boys: Can’t fight it; Tyrion and Jaime are amazing and their final goodbye was astounding and heart felt. And for a little bit I could pretend that MAYBE something here mattered. These two guys have been nails since they were first introduced in their first scene. Amazing characters who were tremendous in almost every episode. I mean… assuming the show runners were not actively trying to ruin them (ie: that rape scene). Watching Tyrion scrape through the rubble was haunting. Watching Jaime risk everything to get to Cersei was a monumental waste of time. … yeah… this is going to be much harder than I thought … Turn Away From It All Like a Blind Man: The how utilized the raising tension of what was happening between the Hound and Arya racing to Cersei; to Jaime racing to Cersei to Dany chewing up the planet; to that amazing scene when Drogon shoots through the battlements and annihilating the Golden Company. I felt the Pressure of the scenes and the circumstances. From Jon’s face to the terror of the citizens to the music to Cercei’s face to the destruction and then… silence… it was a great use of sound and sights to signify rising tension… … and then Dany just went nuts rendering it all meaningless… The Killing of the Last King: Oh I HATED Euron Grayjoy and glad he died and I’m glad he was wrong about killing Jaime. He sucked; the Iron Isles sucked; it was all terrible and I loved that Jaime killed him. … but then Dany burned them all to death so it didn’t matter! CLEAGANE BOWL!!!!! Great fight. What I liked most about it was when the Mountain ripped off his helmet and Sandor said “You were ALWAYS like that.” Fucking great. A lesser show would have had Sandor say something “Look what you have become,” but this kept Sandor true to it all. And their final death was semi fitting as they both plunged into Sandor’s greatest fear, fire. But it ultimately didn’t matter because Dany was burning it all down anyway! What I am On the Fence About: … Until You And I Are The Only People Left In This World: I’m just baffled that this was how we thought it SHOULD end. That Jaime would leave Brienne (because… sure), travel South, get captured, freed, kill Euron (amazing), then end up with Cersei just long enough to … die anyway… and that was meaningful… how? It would be like having this epic battle where the bad guys were winning only to have some rando good-guy show up and save the day athe last second by … oh, fuck, that’s right, they already did that bullshit… I think MAYBE at one time Jaime-Cersei mattered, but the show moved WAY past that. I thought that Jaime grew as a character, but then, stupidly, he is back in KL for no discernable reason and with a meaningless death all the same. But he did go out how he said- that the world would burn and for them, Cersei and Jaime were the only two people left. … not that it mattered because everyone else died. Because of Dany. The Last Time a Spider Died That Lamely was Michael Imperioli in Goodfellas: What. The. Actual. Fuck. Why would Varys be so stupid, so careless and so cavalier with the truth? Why would he be so amazingly stupid?! Now, yes, let’s all remember that Varys’ fears were justified – Dany DID turn out to be nuts, BUT … that was NOT why Varys changed his mind; he changed it due to Jon being Aegon VI. Why would Varys be so sloppy, so stupid, so … lame? Because, again, the show needs him to. Remember, Varys was one of the smartest people in the show for like 6 seasons. Now? Just another dofus who acted so ineptly as to make his murder a foregone conclusion. Again, imagine of this show had been this lame in the first season? Would you ever have watched it? A meaningless, empty end. … But, didn’t matter because Dany proved to be a maniac anyway and burned everything so none of it mattered. The Trials of Arya Plot Armor, the Last Jedi: We were all stunned Arya only killed common sense in this episode. Watching Arya run around through wanton destruction was … kind of cool. And then she almost died. Also, the shot-for-shot comparison with what was happening to Sandor was kind of amazing. And then she almost died. Then she got up and ran through more streets to see the carnage. And then she almost died. Then she was KO’d covered in dust. And then she almost died. And then she ran into the room to save those people. And then she almost died… Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz … ---Snh! What happened? Oh, I must have gotten so fucking board I collapsed in a heap of shame and sadness. And then a horse showed up to take Princess Plot Armor to… wherever she was going to go anyway. While I was pleased with what Arya saw for us- the chronical of utter, wanton destruction – it was so cheap because I WATCH TV! I know- 100%, certain – that Arya was not going to die. She is a Jedi and wears 16-inch Plot-Plate. What a completely dead-inside way to watch those last few scenes. But at least a random horse was there … God that was fucking depressing. As if the showrunners were like, “Well, how can she leave? We’ll just have this horse be there for her to get away with.” BRILLIANT! … And then Dany shat fire and it all, literally, stopped mattering. What I Hated: Oh… Dany… Boy… Oh… : I always said that the way the show misunderstood Stannis and Renly were unforgivable. However, tonight the showrunners did something that is virtually unheard of in TV history – they turned Dany into a plot device. Dany had NEVER displayed insanity before this (shitty) season. Never. She had been cruel; she had been angry; rash and once or twice unwise, but she was fucking King Salomon compared to Robert, Renly, Balon, Robb, Joff, Tommon and Aerys, But the show had no outs. They had not written the show well in 3 seasons; they ended one war prematurely and had wasted way too much time. They had to bring this all out. And the only way to do that was by making Dany go CRAZY! Instead of completing difficult storylines in interesting ways CXCRZY DANY shows up and burns everything down and then makes you know she has to go! That way JON CAN BE KING!!!!!!! See, if Dany is not nuts, then Jon won’t want to be Kinga WEALLWANTJONTOBEKINGBECAUSETHESHOWTOLDUS!! Jon is wicked smaht (even though telling people his secret was stooped) He’s a great battle commander (even if he wins in spite of his mistakes); he’s got great pedigree (he’s a Targaryen, after all!). But he;s a RELUCTANT HERO! The best kind! So we have to do this bullshit. Fuck it all. ANYWAY… Dany is now nuts. Forget that she was never nuts before; forget that she was 100% correct about Cersei; 100% correct about how she should hit the city; forget that she was 100% competent in getting the Dothrakai on her side; 100% correct on freeing the slave cities. NO! Now, she’s CRAZY DANY AND HER PRICES ARE IN-SANE!!!!!!! Because if she stayed sane the show would have to be interesting. And we don’t want that. We want Fire. And ‘SPOLSIONS! And dumb fights. And stupid, avoidable conflicts. And as those people burned, I felt as if it were the showrunners – who clearly have lost all love for this show now and just want it to end – telling us “It was all meaningless! Imagine Jorah Mormont who loved Dany; Barristan Selmy who joined her; Varys and that fat guy in Pentose (seriously does not matter); all the people who rode with her, studied her, fought by her, etc etc etc etc … they were all supporting a secret maniac. Because BEFORE TONIGHT SHE LITERALLY DID NOTHING THAT WAS ACTUALLY CRAZY! Not going in for the eggs; not killing Pryt Pree; not her handing of the Dothrakai – EVERYTHING SHE DID WAS FINE! So their work was just a waste too! It could have been meaningful… But, no; the show needed her to be crazy so they could end the madness… How’s that for shitty irony? I honestly think that this is poignant; that this is “bittersweet;’ but no. It’s a waste. A gigantic steaming pile of burning dung, wafting into our nasal passages and into our lungs. We are all the worst for watching it. But worse, the showrunners are telling us that NOT ONLY WAS TONIGHT A WASTE – but all the nights leading to it were an utter waste. Because in the end…. None of it mattered; she was a lunatic. The show, literally, told us that we wasted our time. Maybe there is a message here; maybe the point was that all powerful people will turn their dragons on is. OR maybe that whatever was prevented in the past will come back even worse later. Or maybe that the sins of one generation will be paid triple by the next. Or maybe when one guy waits too long to finish his books, two fucking morons will rise up and ruin what he started. Because in the end, it doesn’t even matter…
  14. You will note that there was very little point to almost everything that happened in the kast several seasons...
  15. Just remember... we STILL don't know who sent the cutthroat to kill Bran in episode 2.
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