RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 What matter does it make to Lyanna if Robert knew? What will he do? Telling Ned his personal responsibilities sounds a bit out of the moment on her death bed, No possible reason of these makes Ned LIVE with a lie that haunts him everyday. Why is it that whenever Cat brings up Jon, he never calls him his son, but only his blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 What matter does it make to Lyanna if Robert knew? What will he do? Telling Ned his personal responsibilities sounds a bit out of the moment on her death bed, No possible reason of these makes Ned LIVE with a lie that haunts him everyday. Why is it that whenever Cat brings up Jon, he never calls him his son, but only his blood? Oh yeah, whenever she brings up the living symbol of your adultery against her, the best thing to do is remind her that the child is your Son and you intend to raise him as such... You've never been in a relationship with a woman scorned, have you? If Ned wanted to sleep with a reasonable assurance that the woman he loved wouldn't geld him in his sleep, he needed to avoid referring to Jon as his Son as though his life depended on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Well, considering Catelyn accepted his "cheating" on her, on the basis that they didn't even know each other, and that there are zero hard feelings with him being with Ashara, then why is it not safe to defend Jon from her persecutions. If, however, she was hurt from the adultery, then that's a different story. We're talking about this one, where Catelyn accepts Jon as Ned's bastard son, and put's up with him being around. So Ned acknowledging Jon as a son should not upset Catelyn, especially when he can silence and have complete faithfulness from her at any time. Catelyn would have given Ned anything he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 Well, considering Catelyn accepted his "cheating" on her, on the basis that they didn't even know each other, and that there are zero hard feelings with him being with Ashara, then why is it not safe to defend Jon from her persecutions. If, however, she was hurt from the adultery, then that's a different story. We're talking about this one, where Catelyn accepts Jon as Ned's bastard son, and put's up with him being around. So Ned acknowledging Jon as a son should not upset Catelyn, especially when he can silence and have complete faithfulness from her at any time. Catelyn would have given Ned anything he wanted. Trust me... She was NEVER Okay with having Jon around... and she might not have cared about Ned cheating on her, but she NEVER forgave him for bringing Jon home to raise as his own... the ONLY way Ned was able to keep her anger over it from brimming over the top and bringing all out misery to his household was by making damned sure that he NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES refered to Jon as his Son in Her presence... When they found the wolf pups... one for each of your children Lord Stark... Then where is yours Jon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I never said Catelyn was okay with it, but she accepted it. Jon found the albino, the outcast, seeing as he's not exactly one of them, but non the less, he's a stark child. They weren't for the son's of Ned, they were for the Stark children. Catelyn accepted that Jon was living with them and that he had grown up close with her children. Ned calling Jon his son and calling him his blood is not that big of a leap. It's not as though Ned would change what Jon is to him for Catelyn's sake. He loved her, yes, but his word was mightier than hers (or so thats how Westeros viewed it). It's not as though Ned refering to Jon as "his blood" rather than "his son" would cause any sort of relief to Catelyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euron Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Male dominated society. Cat was castle born and raised. Seems EVERY noble family that gets mentioned in the books (with the exception of Lannister) always has some sort of bastard(s) wandering around, male & female. In fact, they all have a standard last name depending on where they are from. So either Cat was very very nieve (like Sansa), or she knew the obvious by the time she married: Most men will screw around behind your back. That Ned never (that we know of) wandered after they got back together at Winterfell must have been relief. What if she had married a Frey? They seem to have bastards all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Thank you. All in all this always brings us back to Jon not being Ned's true son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 Male dominated society. Cat was castle born and raised. Seems EVERY noble family that gets mentioned in the books (with the exception of Lannister) always has some sort of bastard(s) wandering around, male & female. In fact, they all have a standard last name depending on where they are from. So either Cat was very very naive (like Sansa), or she knew the obvious by the time she married: Most men will screw around behind your back. That Ned never (that we know of) wandered after they got back together at Winterfell must have been relief. What if she had married a Frey? They seem to have bastards all over the place. Accepting the fact that He'd probably have bastards is one thing, that I don't think bothered her very much (if any). What upset her was having that bastard raised beside her own kids, in the castle, as though the bastard was somehow as good as her children. Also, the presence of that bastard is a perceived threat to her. You can tell a lot about her attitude and feeling in two things; 1. The way Sansa thinks about Jon, and 2. That ever so damning line "It should have been YOU!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Nobody ever said she had to take him as her own. That wouldn't change the fact of him being Ned's son. She mainly dislikes him for the closeness in Rob and Jon's age, it's hard to say who's older, and their closeness in age is another supportive factor in Jon not being Ned's son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 Nobody ever said she had to take him as her own. That wouldn't change the fact of him being Ned's son. She mainly dislikes him for the closeness in Rob and Jon's age, it's hard to say who's older, and their closeness in age is another supportive factor in Jon not being Ned's son. I actually had a twisted thought concerning that... suppose that it was Rob, not Jon, who was not Ned's Son... How ironic would THAT be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Well... one could go as far as saying it's Petyr's son! Dum Dum Dummmmm. Though I'm quite sure it's Ned's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Stark Fan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Though I'm quite sure it's Ned's. i second that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 Well... one could go as far as saying it's Petyr's son! Dum Dum Dummmmm. Though I'm quite sure it's Ned's. Well, you wouldn't even have to go that far... though that would be funny... she WAS betrothed to Brandon prior to Ned, it is possible that Brandon took her for a test drive prior to the actual marriage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Well well well, that would add a whole new twist to it.. I can almost see it "I'm about to go fight for my father, and I may not return, this may be out last chance!" "Oh Bran! Build me a path to pleasure town!!" Though... I'm far from convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 NightFlyer has done it again... Here is another gem... a shinning example of how entertaining broken pottery can be... http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showt...mp;#entry946241 The theory is that Varys is secretly working for the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Don't worry, I'm adding holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 When they found the wolf pups... one for each of your children Lord Stark... Then where is yours Jon? Jon himself, in that scene, talked about Ned's trueborn children. How is that 24th read-through going, o mighty master of reading comprehension? Found anything yet to contradict your idea that Catelyn is a terrible selfish person who only thinks of herself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Easy now, we can all see that Ghost being an albino is having some alienation from Ned Starks true born. Nobody doubt's that he's in the same Stark-Generation as Ned's children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 Jon himself, in that scene, talked about Ned's trueborn children. How is that 24th read-through going, o mighty master of reading comprehension? Found anything yet to contradict your idea that Catelyn is a terrible selfish person who only thinks of herself? Though I would normally not bother to respond to such open mockery, I'm permitting it in the interest of answering the question... Good timing, BTW... I am almost through another of her chapters currently, I am on page 491 of the U.S. Hardback of aCoK and... Actually, I'm finding that in actually paying some attention to her POVs and trying to figure out her character, she isn't nearly as intolerable as I had first thought... I still do not like her, and I still wish her harm, but I am beginning to see that she is not quite the monsterous harlot that I had accused her of being... In fact, her character is written well enough that I find myself ALMOST wishing that I had not skimmed mindlessly passed her chapters on all of my previous re-reads... So, I guess you may take that as an apology of sorts... as I said, I still dislike her and wish her harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaegarTargaryen Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 As much as Catelyn tries, I disagree with 90% of her irrational moments of choices. She makes terrible terrible mistakes, causing damage to many others, besides herself, intentional or not. The only thing I credit her, is the last few chapter before she died. She had her .. for want of a better word... shit together in that time. Her last stand would almost be respectable considering her son... and understanding her insanity... though unCat is just a bitch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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