Blaine Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 To me, the reason why The Wire is best show ever to air on television isn't because of the storylines or the execution or the message or anything like that. It's all about the structure. It is genuinely the first and only show I know that doesn't assume the viewer is stupid. Or that the viewer needs a happy ending or a sad ending. It doesn't play to cliches unless it's being real about them or turning them on their heads. It doesn't pound the viewer over the head with exposition for fear of leaving people behind who didn't catch something. All of the conventions of regular episodic TV are out the window and replaced by a smooth, compelling narrative. Other shows have attempted this and succeeded somewhat, but they always fall back into the patterns of "giving viewers what they want" or clear hero/villain structures. Most TV these days isn't anywhere near as structured as it was before The Wire. The Wire is the only show I've seen that manages to throw off the conventions of network to tell an effective story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Wire and Deadwood are the best dramas ever, with maybe the Wire a little better. Nothing tops Al Swearengen for pure badassery, not even Omar. Arrested Development is the best comedy ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 i cant believe some of you are comparing The Wire to Lost. I feel dirty just reading that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Yeah Lost is sort of a guilty pleasure, but I wouldn't call it quality art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Llama Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Definitely the best hour-long drama ever produced for television. No question. Season 5 (having just watched the series finale) isn't the best season of the show and that's going to hurt it in the eyes of some people. I've seen people bashing this show because Templeton and the news guys aren't "complex enough", which, shit I agree with that. Given that most TV series, even ones people have floated as "best ever" are populated with paper thin characters... I just think that speaks to the incredible writing, acting and direction of the show that there are, maybe, two foul notes in a chorus of awesome. I've made an effort to watch every show that's had huge critical acclaim behind it. Modern shows, classic shows, Canadian shows, I don't give a fuck, anything I could get my hands on. None of them are as good as this one. It's not even a question. I don't think it's the "best show ever" for any bullshit reasons. It's just the most ambitious show ever produced for television. For me, that's the reason it's so fucking good. Simon had an enormous vision and, fortunately, was able to play it out almost exactly like he wanted to over five seasons. This never could and never will happen on a network. It was occasionally heavy handed (this didn't start in Season 5 with the media stuff, the chess scene in Season 1 is painful, seriously), but he largely succeeded at what he was trying to do. I certainly hope and expect this show to be eclipsed by others (maybe even Simon's next show, taking what he's learned from The Wire and making something even better), but as of right now, it's a step above anything that's been produced for TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 i cant believe some of you are comparing The Wire to Lost. I feel dirty just reading that. Yeah, yeah, but there are episodes of Lost that are really, really good. And it also broke out of conventional genres. And it's the only show that anyone is mentioning that's on network TV. At least we're not talking about Battlestar. For the record, I also thought Arrested Development was truly great, but I can't compare apples to oranges. But Motherboy XXX? It doesn't get any funnier than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Llama Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 The scene where D'Angelo is teaching the hoppers how to play chess? What was so bad about that? It's been a long time since I've seen that one. I believe the quote at the beginning of the episode was "The king stay the king." I'm not saying the scene is without merit, it's an important scene, I can just feel it being written. "The queen is the get shit done piece", "Reminds me of Stringer"... It's just too heavy handed. And how the hell did you just watch the season finale? The internet is capable of incredible things. It's out there, easy to find, for your viewing pleasure. I won't spoil anything, because I'm not a dick. I thought it was a fine finale, but I know some folks are going to dislike it. Largely for the same reasons they've been down on Season 5 in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 But Motherboy XXX? It doesn't get any funnier than that. Motherboy XXX is the episode you show someone that hasn't seen the show. Pier Pressure is also good, gotta love the Hot Cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsnake Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Great as the Wire is...I do feel it can be a bit, shall we say, overhyped. s in when you watch it, David Simon does not descend from the skies in a golden chariot to fly you to the promised land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Great as the Wire is...I do feel it can be a bit, shall we say, overhyped. s in when you watch it, David Simon does not descend from the skies in a golden chariot to fly you to the promised land. That's because, as Blaine put perfectly up thread, it's greatness isn't obvious. It doesn't slap you in the face with how awesome it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsnake Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I can't honestly agree with that all the time. Some scenes just stick out to me. Like David Simon TRIES to be clever there...it's not that he doesn't succeed, but you can tell he's trying. The genuine flow gets interrupted a bit....yeah, it's great, but greatest show ever? I don't think anything can honestly surpass the Twilight Zone today, but maybe that's me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 heh, i dont see how The Wire is overhyped. Ive been watching it from Season 1 and ranting to whoever will listen bout how great it is. One of my close friends was a huge Six Feet Under fan and i kept buggin him to watch The Wire. He started with season 3 and by season 4 was all caught up. Three episodes into season 4 he declared it better than Six Feet under and the best show on t.v. I think i converted as many people to the wire as i have to GRRM. the only people that didnt like it are my father and cocomaan (cuz he has bad taste)> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsnake Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Well, taste and all...I dunno. I can see from an objective standpoint how great it is and I appreciate it a lot...I guess I just see a select few shows edging it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Well, taste and all...I dunno. I can see from an objective standpoint how great it is and I appreciate it a lot...I guess I just see a select few shows edging it out. thats perfectly fine. for me...the wire is the most honest reflection of our society hat ive ever seen. i love it for its honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsnake Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 It's certainly honest. Extremely brutal in that. Simon's got a relentlessly bleak outlook, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathis Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Holy fucking shit the finale is out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathis Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Its late here and there is too much to say. I'll just mention one scene. SPOILER: The last ever episodeI really loved Jay Landsman's eulogy for McNulty in the Irish bar. It was perfect. Also loved the final montage. Its always excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 SPOILER: series finaleI really enjoyed the finale. I thought it was perfect. If anything, it was a little too nostalgic, but as a fan I can live with that. I could care less about awards and acollades, but of all the snubs, I think Andre Royo not getting any recognition for his portrayal of Bubbles is the greatest injustice of all. His character was certainly the best this season, if not the entire series, and his entire body of work with the character is really unmatched. Above all else, I think what makes this series great is that it tries to explore why people do the things they do, and what it means to do the right thing. Loyalty to friends, to institutions, to family, can cause us to do things we know to be immoral or unethical or not right. This was a constant theme in the Wire, whether it be Daniels resignation so as not to hurt his ex-wife, or cops covering for each other's bad behavior because they are your friend, or taking one for the company, or for your crew. The one guy who seems to be motivated purely by what is the right thing to do, damn the consequences, is McNulty. And he leaves a trail of destruction in his path, he hurts everyone around him. When people berate him about it (Bunk, Daniels, Pearlman), you get the sense that he feels sad that his actions hurt people, but he doesn't regret them. He just sort of takes it, letting them yell at him because he knows he is right. The sadness he feels about the effects he has on those around him leads to his drinking, and his anger that doing the right thing doesn't seem to bring him any happiness. So in that way I like that McNulty is the focus, because his character ties all the themes together. I think the lesson of the show, if there is one, is that above all else, be true to what you know to be right. Be willing to take responsibility for the consequences (like getting yourself or others fired). If loyalty to an institution compels you to betray your principles, that institution isn't worth belonging to. Kima did not hesitate to tell Daniels about the hoax, not even for a moment. Bunny never betrayed what he knew to be right. Carver matured enough to know that he shouldn't cover for Colichio. That's the only way you can truly live with yourself. You can see how the cops at the bar, particularly Landsmen, had a grudging respect for McNulty's stubborn resolve, even if he was a pain in the ass. Another show that has this same theme, although not on as grand a scale and not as realistic, is House, where the main character is similarly motivated purely by what is right, and not the wellfare of anyone around him. I thought the way they showed everything coming full circle was a little over the top, but not enough to ruin what was a great finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Man, all I have to say right now is: SPOILER: last episodeThat motherfucker Valchek. He's like a genius. Just stay the hell out of the way and get made Commisioner by default. It's kind of how I imagine ASOIAF ending: the King gets to be whoever manages not to piss the wrong people off. What a stroke of fuckin' genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordoftheMorning Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 ok. Thanks to those who have seen it already for being careful about NOT spoiling anything, but its too much of a risk to keep coming in here and chancing that someone will slip up. Seeya all next Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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