House Tully Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Black Canary' post='1490870' date='Aug 22 2008, 09.37']I don't see why that would be the case, it would give killers the perfect cover. Still, you did say you could well be wrong :P[/quote] Well hardly the perfect cover, since in a group of 12 as we are there are guarenteed to be many who say what you have said. It gets to be a WIFOM situation I suppose but overall it still makes sense for a killer not to kill someone who has stated doesn't suspect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Velaryon Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Toujours Couture' post='1490962' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.32']Lol I know it does not prove anything, but Sleepy was an irritant as you say and an irritant that trusts you can be a valuable asset for an FM. So those who Sleepy suspected least, also become lesser suspects in my estimation as well. I am very willing to reread everyone, but at the mo Helly is who I am focussed on. It's bad to take whatever Sleepy said as canon, but it's worse to ignore any information we might be able to get from her posts.[/quote] Assuming that because Sleepy Spidey trusted someone Day 1 would mean that he'd trust them the next day is foolish. This day 1 was pretty poor and moved slowly, it only takes one or two suspect posts on day 2 for things to change drastically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Reed Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote]Tz-tz-tz. I must be years from last time we've seen day 2 rolepalying. From major suspect especially. At least, Pepper definitely isn't overdefensive.[/quote] Do you think we could go so far to say she is being [i]under-defensive[/i]? Pepper was at the top of Sleepytime's list, which, IMO, actually lowers the suspicion on her, because the person at the top of the victim's list would be the most obvious suspect. However, I do agree with Jazz Diva that Pepper has not really helped all that much (not to imply that [i]I[/i] have been much more useful :unsure: ) So I'm not really sure what to think on the matter of Pepper. However, in post 276, Toujours Couture says: [quote]Oh and I'd say that at the moment I trust Preferably Pink, Jazz Diva and Tarina. The first two are copied from Sleepy's list [b]since I don't know why Sleepy would have been killed by someone she suspected least[/b], and I also don't suspect Tarina. Of course I could well be wrong but those are my feelings at the moment.[/quote] Toujours was also in the bottom tier of the list, and the bolded part of the quotation could serve to draw suspicion away from herself. Edit: Oh, and in post 3, mod says there will be a "weak CF". What does CF mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Velaryon Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Enough WIFOM with Sleepy Spider's suspect list. I swear to god, I wish I was a ninja that could take out about 8 people because I'd do it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Preferably Pink' post='1490924' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.03']First of all, can we stop taking everything that Sleepy Spidey said as canon? We know he was genuine in his suspicions, but that doesn't mean he was right or that they had anything to do with why he was killed. It is pretty clear he was killed because he was acting as an irritant (and I mean that as a positive :)).[/quote] Some people are intelligent enough to realize that its stupid to kill a strong player who trusts you. They are an asset, not a detriment, and while its always possible that they might turn on you, its still worth keeping them around for a little while. You can't just broadly claim that Sleepy was 'an irritant' and leave it at that. Fact is, there is information here. For me, you, and Couture, there would have been a tangible cost in killing Sleepy. I know that I personally would not have been willing to incur that cost. I can't speak for either of you, but you seem relatively intelligent. So its at the very least enough to drop you to my bottom tier of suspects. [quote name='Pink']Right, and FM have never been blatant before. I'm not saying I am sure Tarina is an FM, but we need to start opening up our minds to possibilities beyond the obvious and stop writing people off so quickly.[/quote] Did I completely write her off? No. I said that I disagreed with Pirate about that post. That I thought there was a reason to possibly be suspicious of the post, but that 1) it was different from the reason stated by Pirate and 2) upon deeper thought, it didn't really hold up as a red flag, in my opinion. So Pink, who do you suspect? You didn't like Tarina yesterday. Feel the same way today? And if so, who else do you suspect beyond her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Preferably Pink' post='1490991' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.51']Enough WIFOM with Sleepy Spider's suspect list. I swear to god, I wish I was a ninja that could take out about 8 people because I'd do it right now.[/quote] Stop whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='The Pirate' post='1490690' date='Aug 22 2008, 11.23']I didn't like the post because it was a safe way to deal with the information - easy way to hide a reaction and I don't understand why she included the role speculation part of it. Helly Kitty hasn't posted enough to get a read, but I don't find her cutting other players with low posts some slack too unusual. Sounds like she was truly not able to get back to participate and would be understanding of others in that situation. I think anyone might feel that way.[/quote] I asked for you to give thoughts on players other than Tarina, and all you came up with was a line about Kitty. Which was really in response to Couture asking you what you thought about Kitty. Once again, playing it safe. I don't like it. Step out from under the radar and comment on the other players. [b]Pirate[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Velaryon Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1490994' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.53']Some people are intelligent enough to realize that its stupid to kill a strong player who trusts you. They are an asset, not a detriment, and while its always possible that they might turn on you, its still worth keeping them around for a little while.[/quote] Some people are intelligent enough to realize that using the suspect/trust list of a NKed player is all WIFOM and we should move forward on our own FFS. I can't even begin to tell you how annoyed I am right now. It is to the point where I haven't bothered to do any rereads because you all are so hung up on this. [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1490994' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.53']So its at the very least enough to drop you to my bottom tier of suspects.[/quote] Thank you for once again pushing me closer to the top of the list for nightkills the next few nights. I prefer to do that myself thank you very much. [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1490994' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.53']So Pink, who do you suspect? You didn't like Tarina yesterday. Feel the same way today? And if so, who else do you suspect beyond her?[/quote] Still don't like Sumatra, Pepper, or Tarina. Or you. But with you I'm not sure if it is just annoyance or suspicion. [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1490997' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.53']Stop whining.[/quote] Stop WIFOMing ffs. All of this discussion is getting us nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Frey Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Toujours Couture' post='1490965' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.34']Well hardly the perfect cover, since in a group of 12 as we are there are guarenteed to be many who say what you have said. It gets to be a WIFOM situation I suppose but overall it still makes sense for a killer not to kill someone who has stated doesn't suspect them.[/quote] It's a risk that is often not worth the payoff until close to the end of the game. I'm here and will catch up and post my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Pommingham Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Medusa' post='1490310' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.01']I had only a few minutes left and didn't think I would make it home beforethe end of the day. There were no REAL reasons to suspect any of the top 3 vote getters...I felt I had to pick one of them, so I did my best given the time and choices I had.[/quote] None of us had REAL reasons (or we would have lynched a bad girl), but all of us gave some kind of reason to vote (except The Pirate, but it was implicit). It's the reasons you gave which I don't like. [quote name='The Pirate' post='1490606' date='Aug 22 2008, 17.02']Well I still don't like Tarina and I really didn't like her post this morning.[/quote] I don't like you much either. You started focusing on me because of an answer to Sumatra and i seem to have narrowed your looks a lot. As Jazz points out it's a good way to fake it. It's also completely wrong. [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1490743' date='Aug 22 2008, 17.42']You, me and Pink had very little reason to kill Sleepy. I guess any one of us could have done it either 1) because he was a strong player and therefore a threat, or 2) in an attempt to clear our names by citing his lowest tier of suspects and making the exact argument you are making in the above quote. But thats a pretty uncertain payoff (because people could just respond 'WIFOM!'), and it comes at the price of losing somebody who trusts you. I don't know about everyone else, but when I'm an FM, I like to keep my innocent 'allies' around as default symps. I kill people who either suspect me or who haven't said much about me. So in the end, in spite of the WIFOM possibilities, I do feel better about Couture and Pink than most of the other players remaining in the game.[/quote] I agree with Canary on this one. Killing someone who didn't find her suspicious worked wonders for Brax on game 54, so I'd kind of expect to start seeing it more used as a tactic. I'm not particularly suspicious of any of you, but If I was I don't think I'd drop my suspicions because of the NK. Though we thankfully have a few very loquacious players there's still a bunch who posts very little or is overtly fond of one-liners. RL's a bitch, but we need more to chew on. A bunch of players who post close to nothing is a godsend to the FM who can effectively hide in their midst until near end-game with little effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Preferably Pink' post='1491007' date='Aug 22 2008, 13.59']Some people are intelligent enough to realize that using the suspect/trust list of a NKed player is all WIFOM and we should move forward on our own FFS. I can't even begin to tell you how annoyed I am right now. It is to the point where I haven't bothered to do any rereads because you all are so hung up on this.[/quote] Get over it. If you're really annoyed, you need to step away from the game for an hour, and come back when you can think clearly. [quote name='Pink']Still don't like Sumatra, Pepper, or Tarina. Or you. But with you I'm not sure if it is just annoyance or suspicion.[/quote] Sumatra is dead and came up innocent. :unsure: Why don't you like Pepper and Tarina? What are your thoughts on Medusa, Pirate, Hard Rock, Kitty, Showgirl, Canary, and Aqua? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Medusa' post='1491009' date='Aug 22 2008, 14.01']It's a risk that is often not worth the payoff until close to the end of the game.[/quote] What are you referring to, when you use the word 'it'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Pommingham Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Preferably Pink' post='1491007' date='Aug 22 2008, 19.59']Still don't like Sumatra, Pepper, or Tarina. Or you. But with you I'm not sure if it is just annoyance or suspicion.[/quote] I was slightly suspicious of Sumatra yesterday, but she has done much to alleviate these suspicions. Tarina seems good as gold to me. Only leaves one valid suspect in your list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Frey Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1491022' date='Aug 22 2008, 14.04']What are you referring to, when you use the word 'it'?[/quote] sorry, they were talking about killing someone who thinks you not likely guilt...that is the "it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Velaryon Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Jazz Diva' post='1491018' date='Aug 22 2008, 14.04']Sumatra is dead and came up innocent. :unsure: Why don't you like Pepper and Tarina? What are your thoughts on Medusa, Pirate, Hard Rock, Kitty, Showgirl, Canary, and Aqua?[/quote] Brainfart, meant to say I haven't liked some of Toujours. I don't know, I haven't even been thinking about it because I want to get us to move on from the WIFOM. The only people this discussion is helping is the FM because it isn't doing shit for us. The other major problem we have is the number of people with very very few posts. We are at day 2 and more than half of us have 11 posts or less. That is pathetic. We have no chance if that continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Frey Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Tarina Tarantino' post='1491025' date='Aug 22 2008, 14.06']I was slightly suspicious of Sumatra yesterday, but she has done much to alleviate these suspicions.[/quote] Like dying and having the CF say she was innocent? edit: and I see this was already covered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Frey Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Tarina Tarantino' post='1491025' date='Aug 22 2008, 14.06']I was slightly suspicious of Sumatra yesterday, but she has done much to alleviate these suspicions. Tarina seems good as gold to me. Only leaves one valid suspect in your list![/quote] ok, this really bothers me. What did you mean whenyou said this? I understand Pinky's slip, but you followed it up with a statement that can't make any sense at all. You obviously lied. There is nothing Sumatra could have done to alleviate your suspicions. I need to finish the re-read (and stop looking at hte new posts), but if I find anything else, it is likely you will get my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Velaryon Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Medusa' post='1491033' date='Aug 22 2008, 14.13']ok, this really bothers me. What did you mean whenyou said this? I understand Pinky's slip, but you followed it up with a statement that can't make any sense at all. You obviously lied. There is nothing Sumatra could have done to alleviate your suspicions.[/quote] Coming up innocent didn't alleviate your suspicions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='Preferably Pink' post='1491028' date='Aug 22 2008, 14.07']I don't know, I haven't even been thinking about it because I want to get us to move on from the WIFOM. The only people this discussion is helping is the FM because it isn't doing shit for us.[/quote] Are you really that concerned about how one or two of us react to the night kill? I mean, seriously, whats the big deal? So a few of us think we have a reason to drop certain people down on the suspect list. Is that really such a huge issue right now? Does that keep you from suspecting those people and writing cases against them? Does it prevent you from pushing whichever suspects you want to get lynched? If you want me to vote for Couture (obviously not going to vote for myself, and you are obviously not going to want me to vote for you), then write a case on her. Or if you suspect somebody else more, then write a case on them. Do something beyond just complaining about this. Because [i]you[/i] are the one who is hung up on something that is relatively insignificant. Not everyone else. If you want us to move on, then you should move on. [quote]The other major problem we have is the number of people with very very few posts. We are at day 2 and more than half of us have 11 posts or less. That is pathetic. We have no chance if that continues.[/quote] I've been saying that for over a day now. At this point, I think we're destined to lose this game. I just wrote down my tiers of suspects. There are way too many people who haven't provided us with any information, and who are nearly impossible to evaluate. Note to all of the quiet innocents - you aren't helping. We need you to speak up, share your suspects, write cases...do something. If you just stay quiet, you are allowing the FM to blend in. You're giving them an easy hiding place. If you don't change, you are going to probably cost us the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Velaryon Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Whatever, I'll do some reading but I'm not going to bother making a case until the lazy half of players step up. It just isn't worth the time I'd normally put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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