MAFIA 58

[House Dondarrion]

[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1570605' date='Oct 28 2008, 15.04']I ended up deleting that tier because I didn't want to have only one person in there, even though it is probably obvious at this point who is pretty much trusted by everyone, there was no need to make it any more clear (and draw the NK).[/quote]

Damn crosspost. This fits perfectly...

So you wanted to avoid a nightkill? Why? your individual life means nothing so long as team innocent wins. An innocent should be pointing these things IN CASE they get night killed, so it's out there. What does an innocent gain by avoiding NKs? Lynches, sure. But NKs? a SK has far more to lose.

And you suddenly seem less afraid of a night kill, especially seeing as Odd Killer strikers tonight...

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570612' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.10']Damn crosspost. This fits perfectly...

So you wanted to avoid a nightkill? Why? your individual life means nothing so long as team innocent wins. An innocent should be pointing these things IN CASE they get night killed, so it's out there. What does an innocent gain by avoiding NKs? Lynches, sure. But NKs? a SK has far more to lose.

And you suddenly seem less afraid of a night kill, especially seeing as Odd Killer strikers tonight...[/quote]No, I didn't want to make it any more clear who I thought was looking very innocent so [i]they [/i]wouldn't get NKed. Nice try though.

eta- I'll respond to the rest soon enough, but first:
[quote]And the transformation is completed as you step out of that cocoon, a beautiful buterfly. Suddenly you are using vote analysis to lead the group, focus in on a target...[/quote]Moths come out of cocoons. Butterflies come out of chrysalises.

[House Dondarrion]

[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1570623' date='Oct 28 2008, 15.16']No, I didn't want to make it any more clear who I thought was looking very innocent so [i]they [/i]wouldn't get NKed. Nice try though.[/quote]

But I thought "They" were everyone in that list bar me?


edit: My mistake. Then again, moths are creatures of the night.

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Goodbrother' post='1570251' date='Oct 28 2008, 12.27']Well, I have to say that I divide the pool into three groups now: firstly, people who think (almost) exactly in the same way as I do. It's me, Myre and Orkwood. Secondly, people who think in totally different manner: Merlyn, Saltcliffe, Harlaw.
Thirdly, Farwynd and Botley are somewhat in between.
Generally, I'd prefer to lynch somebody from second group, but I can't ignore heavy evidence against Farwynd, so I am where I am. And I also hope that players from the second group will overstate their dislike of first group and vote by mind, not by feelings and guts.
I'd say case on Farwynd is way better that case on Orkwood.[/quote]I'd like to point out that this is a poor way of finding the SK. You are just finding people that think differently from you, which at times can seem like it is because someone is evil. Really though, everyone has slightly different styles of play. Some people always end up butting heads no matter what team they are each on because they work things through differently in the game. I've disagreed a hell of a lot with Botley and the way he plays, however I still think that he is innocent because I am able to (for the most part) see where he is coming from. Sometimes he says something just way the fuck out of left field that I have no explanation for, that's just the way things go sometimes though.

I also think you need to reread my actions on Day 2, you're selling me pretty short.

-------------------

[i](I was writing this before I saw the long post by Orkwood, so I am just going to finish this and post it..then go back)[/i]
[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570478' date='Oct 28 2008, 14.47']I'd also like to hear a little more from Farwynd, both on what he thinks about me as a choice to lynch and the game in general, which way it's headed.[/quote]Do I really need to summarize what I said several times yesterday and my post today? My thoughts on you should be pretty clear at this point, I've given my evidence for why you make sense as a lynch today. As for which way it's headed, if you are innocent I'd probably look at Harlaw or Merlyn next. Frankly, Harlaw and Saltcliffe have been giving me more innocent vibes even though I feel like they haven't been posting enough (both have had posting issues). Goodbrother has been skating along since he was PI/CI/whatever, I agreed at the start that he seemed genuine in that initial post. Since then, he hasn't really done much that would speak to his innocence in my mind. Still, lynching him would be pretty far down the road.

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570627' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.18']But I thought "They" were everyone in that list bar me?[/quote][i]They [/i]being the one person I pretty much trusted at that point.

[House Upcliff]

I am working tonight...and every night until Christmas

[b]I like the case on Farwynd[/b] so I'll even up the vote at 3 each.

I'll try to keep an eye on the game if my vote is needed to change to get a lynch. We cannot afford a repeat of night one.

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']Know a lot about how a SK will be acting then? And odd, you claim that under the radar and innocent but not too innocent are being blended, and that's bad... Odd that this then becomes your profile.[/quote]Is that really what you're going with? It reflects badly on me because I posted about how I thought the SK would act? Your second point I've been arguing against since the end of day 1, it should be pretty obvious that I haven't been under the radar. Each day I've been voted for a few times, Botley (and usually someone else) has made a case against me (today is no exception). So if my goal was to stay under the radar, that was thrown out the window very early on. However, the fact is that I wasn't trying to stay under the radar. I made no attempt to fake contribution. Early on I was joking for the most part and then by the time I got back I found that Merlyn was getting close to being lynched (only person with more than 1 vote), and Botley was questioning my vote.

I spent much of the rest of the day arguing with Botley. Probably not the best way to spend the end of the day, but I didn't have the time at that point to do a big reread and find a better option than Merlyn. Nobody was really seriously pushing anyone one else as a suspect that I could get behind (not going to vote for myself), so I probably couldn't have done anything productive even if I had the time. It was after that I had more time and could go back and reread people and post my thoughts, and I did.
[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']Am i misreading, or is this a missed mini slip?[/quote]My point was about lynching. Lynching is the only chance innocents have to kill the SKs, so I was expressing my displeasure at the waste of a lynch attempt.
[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']Now he was voting Farwynd. Farwynd seems an intelligent person. I can easily see them killing Kenning because, well, if Farwynd was the SK, he wouldn't be that silly, would he? So obvious a move we'll all look straight past it.[/quote]Give me that beer in front of you, I think you've poisoned the one in front of me. There isn't much point in arguing BIFOM, however I will say this: do you think I am the type of player that would have felt threatened by Kenning? Funny that nobody has brought this up for awhile because it really isn't a very strong point...perhaps you thought it was an ace in the hole for you? ;)

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']At the time, this could have been named "People with little influence right now" and "people with influence right now". So you dislike the people less likely to be able to get you lynched?[/quote]You've walked down a very similar road as me ser. Don't throw stones.

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']So your focus is on numbers and numbers alone here... Not thinking about how an even night SK, especially if already a suspect for it, could hide themselves in plain sight? If we see you as the SK, you already know that it was a genuine no SK to kill. You already know that it isn't what happened. Therefore you can now safely do the maths to prove it irrelevent, when for an innocent it'd have at least trifling value.[/quote]Could you clarify this? I'm not really getting your point. Are you saying I should ignore the obvious road (the even SK is dead, not that there was a kill witheld last night? Now you seem to be accusing me of being the even-SK when above you accused me of killing Kenning. Is that what you are saying?

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']Also, interestingly you seem to be stepping up a little here, bringing yourself into the real useful category.[/quote]:rolleyes:

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']And the transformation is completed as you step out of that cocoon, a beautiful buterfly. Suddenly you are using vote analysis to lead the group, focus in on a target...[/quote]Was I supposed to be using voting analysis earlier when we only had one vote?

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']Here's the crux. Until one SK drops dead, you are under the radar, mid table, not all that killable or that lynchable. The first SK drops and even with jsut 2 posts you've made the first few steps towards stepping up to the plate. Wanting to lead the group, maybe not right at the front, as they will drop dead over the next few odd nights, but just behidn them so you can win the game just as your turn to die comes up?[/quote]I know it sounds really nice and convincing to continue to say that I have tried to stay under the radar all game, but that doesn't make it true. I'd like to think that I stepped up to the plate at the start of Day 2 when I finally started to have time.

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']As I read that last post at work, i felt you had transformed from a background player to someone in the front of the group. Not right top with Myre, but more with botley who's been climbing since day 2.[/quote]Mmm, you waxing poetic is starting to lull me into believe you. Oh wait no, it isn't. So basically the crux of your case is you think I've been under the radar the entire game, until now. That is your whole case...and you had the audacity to question the legitimacy and depth of mine. Pfaw!

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Harlaw' post='1570654' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.40']I am working tonight...and every night until Christmas

[b]I like the case on Farwynd[/b] so I'll even up the vote at 3 each.

I'll try to keep an eye on the game if my vote is needed to change to get a lynch. We cannot afford a repeat of night one.[/quote]Actually if you could remove your vote I'd appreciate it. Orkwood hasn't voted yet, but I think it is pretty clear where is vote will go (which would make me L-1). Funny that he didn't even place his vote after all that.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 3.

8 players remain: Botley, Farwynd, Goodbrother, Harlaw, Merlyn, Myre, Orkwood, Saltcliffe.

5 votes are needed for a conviction or 4 to go to night.

3 votes for Farwynd ( Myre, Goodbrother, Harlaw)
3 votes for Orkwood ( Farwynd, Botley, Merlyn)

2 players have not voted: Orkwood, Saltcliffe.


Pebs Mod will see you in the morning.

Spider Mod is AWOL If your lucky he will post another vote count before I he goes to bed.

Pebs Mod gives all living players a cookie, and all dead ones a bar of chocolate.

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']As I read that last post at work, i felt you had transformed from a background player to someone in the front of the group. Not right top with Myre, but more with botley who's been climbing since day 2.[/quote]
Post count is obviously not the greatest measure however If I'm under the radar then what about Saltcliffe, Merlyn, Harlaw, or hell even Goodbrother? Are you really going to tell me that they haven't been playing a quieter more under the radar game than me? Don't give the "now your a leader" argument either, I've only had 5 or so posts today so it hasn't changed much. Plus, that is the new argument that you've pulled out, before the argument had been simpy that I was under the radar.

House Farwynd 43
House Goodbrother 38
House Myre 32
House Harlaw 29
House Merlyn 25
House Saltcliffe 18

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570478' date='Oct 28 2008, 14.47']If I don't hear from him soon i'll have to post what I have in an attempt to save my own bacon, and to make sure my ideas don't die with me. However, lets just say that i'm interested to see what he's thinking right now.[/quote]I'd also like to note that it is interesting that the ideas he is concerned to die with are all part of a 'case' against me. Not too concerned about giving people your thoughts on anyone else huh?

eta- Sorry I am spamming here a bit, however Orkwood's case is utter bull. I've explained the 'slip' that Myre pointed out and responded to Saltcliffe as well. I refuse to get lynched as an innocent based on this stuff, it would be an immense disservice to the innocents if I didn't fight tooth and nail to get Orkwood lynched right now.

[House Dondarrion]

[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1570675' date='Oct 28 2008, 15.50']Actually if you could remove your vote I'd appreciate it. Orkwood hasn't voted yet, but I think it is pretty clear where is vote will go (which would make me L-1). Funny that he didn't even place his vote after all that.[/quote]

Actually, I quite simply forgot to place my vote there. I won't put it there for now though, as you are right. We have way too many hours of daylight left to leave someone at L-1.

[House Clegane]

[quote name='House Botley' post='1570271' date='Oct 28 2008, 12.37']I'd say that we lynch Orkwood today and Farwynd tomorrow. Then we lynch Harlaw. If the game isn't over by then, the remaining players can discuss who to lynch next.[/quote]

I don't like this. I mean, as it happens I agree with the strategy, but I don't like the fact that it was made at all. Seems to me we should look at things one day at a time, based on who we think is most suspicious. This just seems to me like a low-risk something an SK might say in an attempt to get everyone to subconciously accept the premise of the plan and so not lynch him for three days.

[quote name='House Saltcliffe' post='1570567' date='Oct 28 2008, 16.12']Now while it is was nice of you to hammer Volmark for us, the underlined, italicized bit caught my attention. It has been mentioned a few times that it is likely the SK will try to keep around a player or two that is more likely to get lynched than himself, well I have to admit, keeping me around is a nice way to do it.
I mean hell my performance to date has been poor to say the least and to get a lynch on me would probably be pretty damn easy. Now saying you would rather lynch Volmark over me? Sounds a little like you are trying to get into Myre's good books as he has been [s]looking[/s] glaring at me since the start of the game and lets face it, Myre is probably the most likely here to be innocent.
So I have no problem voting for Farwynd.[/quote]

I have many problems with this post. Firstly, I think it is stretching the vidence a long way to say that farwynd was probably saying he didn't want to lynch Saltcliffe right away so that he could keep around a lynchable player. If that is the plan, then why not go for someone completely unlynchable? Besides, it turned out Volmark was guilty, and if the other SK also thought that, then I would expect them not to be on the mob (WIFOM arguments excepted), or at least not to push it. In fact Farwynd is the one to hammer, and if Saltcliffe had used this as evidence of Farwynd withholding his vote until there was no other option then I would have less problem with it. And as for Farwynd's attempts to get in Myre's good books - I don't buy this. Am I the only one not really to have much idea who Myre is (I mean in-game persona, not to do with alts)? I don't find plausible this argument against farwynd. Finally, the whole, yeh I'm a poor lynchable player rhetoric doesn't sit well with me - it might just be style, but I don't like it.

[quote name='House Botley' post='1570577' date='Oct 28 2008, 16.18']I just reread Myre and it did confirm the good impression that I had so far. He seems to be seriously interested into moving discussions, he asks sensible questions and he did not try to manipulate other players when they were ganging up against each other. I say he is VPI for me. I'd like to get a suspect ranking with some comments by him.


I also like Salty's second last post. Sounds very very genuine.[/quote]

I will have to reread Myre.

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570608' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.07']The odd SK also can't kill a SK on night 1. No-one can. So why concentrate on who the even SK can catch? Why is it him Vs us, and not him vs odd vs us?

Here's the crux. Until one SK drops dead, you are under the radar, mid table, not all that killable or that lynchable. The first SK drops and even with jsut 2 posts you've made the first few steps towards stepping up to the plate. Wanting to lead the group, maybe not right at the front, as they will drop dead over the next few odd nights, but just behidn them so you can win the game just as your turn to die comes up?

As I read that last post at work, i felt you had transformed from a background player to someone in the front of the group. Not right top with Myre, but more with botley who's been climbing since day 2.[/quote]

Most of that post is rhetorical fluff imo, designed to garnish the argument aginst Farwynd. But the first but I would like Farwynd to respond to, and I do think there is some value in the other point - about Farwynd only stepping up now that NK danger is eliminated (if he is the remaining SK) So I'd like Farwynd to respond to this too.

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570612' date='Oct 28 2008, 17.10']Damn crosspost. This fits perfectly...

So you wanted to avoid a nightkill? Why? your individual life means nothing so long as team innocent wins. An innocent should be pointing these things IN CASE they get night killed, so it's out there. What does an innocent gain by avoiding NKs? Lynches, sure. But NKs? a SK has far more to lose.

And you suddenly seem less afraid of a night kill, especially seeing as Odd Killer strikers tonight...[/quote]

I don't think an SK would make it obvious they were afraid of a NK, or they would try very hard not to. Besides, isn't what Farwynd actually said something like he didn't want to draw the NK? Seems like a reasonable strategy for an innocent, so I think this argument is clutching at straws


Yeh so anyway, I am about to reread Farwynd again, but personally I find the case on him less that convincing. I actually want to vote for [b]Saltcliffe[/b] right now, his post really I did not like.

[House Dondarrion]

[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1570684' date='Oct 28 2008, 15.57']Don't give the "now your a leader" argument either, I've only had 5 or so posts today so it hasn't changed much. Plus, that is the new argument that you've pulled out, before the argument had been simpy that I was under the radar.[/quote]

So you want me to tell you why you stand out above the others to me, without me mentioning the very thing that's the crux of my argument?

Anyway, you wouldn't have wanted to be the quietest. The middle ground is far more comfortable.


[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1570689' date='Oct 28 2008, 16.02']I'd also like to note that it interesting the ideas he is concerned to die with are all part of a 'case' against me. Not too concerned about giving people your thoughts on anyone else huh?[/quote]

Yours is the case I feel most important right now. I honestly don't have that much on most people. Mostly just commentary on what they've done so far, rather than useful analysis. If I die now, it's not so bad. Before I'd made that post, there's stuff that might have died with me. Usefull stuff? That's not for me to decide.

[House Dondarrion]

[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1570689' date='Oct 28 2008, 16.02']I'd also like to note that it interesting the ideas he is concerned to die with are all part of a 'case' against me. Not too concerned about giving people your thoughts on anyone else huh?

eta- Sorry I am spamming here a bit, however Orkwood's case is utter bull. I've explained the 'slip' that Myre pointed out and responded to Saltcliffe as well. I refuse to get lynched as an innocent based on this stuff, it would be an immense disservice to the innocents if I didn't fight tooth and nail to get Orkwood lynched right now.[/quote]

Wasn't one of your smoking guns against me how hardly I fought against cases on me?

Seems we really are spiritual brothers. Shame... If you didn't kill people as they slept we could have been friends.

[House Dayne]

Back and tired as hell. Sorry had a pretty hard start to the week. I'll try to do my best though.

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570627' date='Oct 28 2008, 22.18']But I thought "They" were everyone in that list bar me?


edit: My mistake. Then again, moths are creatures of the night.[/quote]
"My name is Darkstar and I am of the night!" :P
:leaving:
Sorry couldn't help, especially since my login is House Dayne


Onto more serious business:
[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1570605' date='Oct 28 2008, 22.04']I've said a few times that even if I think someone is more likely to be innocent than not, I will still lynch them if it is our only chance for a lynch in a CF game. That is exactly the situation we were in, there was no other option than Merlyn because people weren't on enough to actually discuss other options.

The "seemed innocent" was a poor choice of words, I'd say "safe lynch" is probably a better reason. From my view, Merlyn hadn't done much to look innocent (his analysis of everyone was nice, but under duress) and he hadn't really done anything damning either. So from the view of an SK, he would be a safe lynch to try and get done because there wouldn't seem to be a particularly great chance that Merlyn was an SK. Lynching an SK on day 1 would be the beginning of the end for the other SK. Back to my point of view, there was still a [i]chance[/i] that Merlyn was an SK, so why not take it?[/quote]

You've been consistent with the idea that lynching>no lynch.
Now, thinking that someone is neutral and thinking that someone is innocent are 2 very different things. When I think someone is innocent, I at least try to defend them and to find another option. Even if I may end up voting for them in the end for the sake of a lynch.
Maybe it was just a poor choice of words, maybe it was a "slip".
Another thing, we now know Volmark was the even day SK (I really don't believe in the conspiration theory that the kill was withheld, the SK is in a sufficiently hard situation that he doesn't want to lose a day IMO). For the odd-day SK, lynching the even day SK on day 1 or 2 didn't make a difference. Yet, you are voting for Orkwood who IIRC was pretty adamant on voting out Volmark.
How do you explain that?


Now, to answer Botley's question about my suspects ranking:

I think you've brought interesting points about Orkwood, and I think Orkwood has brought interesting point about Farwynd. I still need to do rereads on both of them. I've been saying that all day about Orkwood. But unfortunately I don't think I'm in the state to do proper rereads tonight. I will have less work tomorrow morning, so I'll work on that tomorrow. To sum up my opinion pre-reread:

Orkwood: on day 1 I considered Orkwood as the most innocent looking with Goodbrother. Orkwood looked pretty agressive and didn't shy when people disagreed with him, which made a pretty good impression on me even though I disagreed with him. On day 2, he was much less present, but since we came from week-end to week, it's not necessarily damning. However, it also fits for the day 1 SK, who wouldn't be afraid of a NK on day 1 but would be on day 2. That's why I need a reread.

Farwynd: I could have followed you on Farwynd on day 1 if I had thought there was a chance to get him lynched and if he hadn't started posting more substance at the moment I had to leave. But like Merlyn, he would have been more a default choice than my favourite one (*looks at Saltcliffe*). On day 2, I became slightly suspicious of him when I realized that all of his contributions so far had been arguing with you, but I was distracted by Volmark and to a lesser extent Saltcliffe, and Farwynd started posting other stuff. Then today there was the "slip" that brought back my attention to him. He's my favourite lynch at the moment, but I want to reread him in light of Orkwood's case, if not make my own if I find new stuff.


Saltcliffe: I have a hard time with Saltcliffe. He was my favourite suspect on day 1. And my second favourite on day 2. I really don't understand his approach of the game and have difficulties figuring if it's just a very different way of thinking or something more. Saltcliffe was very defensive on day 1 when I first attacked him, which I found overly suspicious. He said later he was drunk and shouldn't have had that reaction. And since then he has been much less defensive. Though there is still the incident of the vote/unvote on Volmark. As for day 1, he didn't vote for Merlyn but claimed he had internet problems so I don't know if we can draw any conclusions from that one way or the other. Actually, I had a bit forgotten Saltcliffe today with the Orkwood/Farwynd focus but my suspicions come back quite strong when I think back on it.

Harlaw is a blank slate for me. I really hope he can post more tonight. Yeah, you see the conclusion coming... reread!!!

Merlyn: don't have a real read on Merlyn either. The main good point in his favour, as Botley noted, is his reaction to lynch threats.

Goodbrother and Botley are the ones I consider as the most innocent looking.

So if I have to give tiers, it would be :

tier 1: Farwynd, Saltcliffe
tier 1.5: Orkwood
tier 2: Harlaw
tier 2.5: Merlyn
tier 3: Goodbrother, Botley

And after this long post I'll leave you. Hopefully I'll have time for rereads before the day is over. If possible don't end the day too soon. I have little hope to make it through the night and I'd like to have a chance to give more thoughts.

[House Dayne]

I'll [b]remove my vote[/b] for now.
I see Farwynd got a 3rd one, I see he answered some more things while I was posting and I don't have the courage to look at it in details for tonight.
So I want to give myself more time to think./

[House Clegane]

Ok I've just reread Farwynd. I see him just less suspcicious than Orkwood or Saltcliffe and these are at the moment my top three suspects. this may change after further rereads. But a Farwynd lynch would not be my preferred for tonight.

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570700' date='Oct 28 2008, 18.10']So you want me to tell you why you stand out above the others to me, without me mentioning the very thing that's the crux of my argument?[/quote]Your argument depends on two fallacies. First that I was under the radar. I've already pointed out this was untrue Day 1 (if staying under the radar was my intention I would have faked contribution and probably would not have left a joke vote out there as long as I did, not a very safe/careful move). Then Day 2 and on, I've been active. So your idea that now that the SK is gone I am willing to stick my neck out is BS, it has been out, I've been in the, at or near, forefront of every day pretty much.

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570700' date='Oct 28 2008, 18.10']Anyway, you wouldn't have wanted to be the quietest. The middle ground is far more comfortable.[/quote] Haha, is it really? Merlyn was close to getting lynched Day 1, but other than that...Harlaw, Saltcliffe, Merlyn, and Goodbrother have all been very safe from lynch attempts.

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570700' date='Oct 28 2008, 18.10']Yours is the case I feel most important right now. I honestly don't have that much on most people. Mostly just commentary on what they've done so far, rather than useful analysis. If I die now, it's not so bad. Before I'd made that post, there's stuff that might have died with me. Usefull stuff? That's not for me to decide.[/quote]We know this is true for myself because I pushed my case on you first, however we can't really know if you are being honest here. By the way, it has been exactly 24 hours that you've mentioned any suspicion of someone other than myself and even that didn't truly start until after I posted my vote analysis and voted for you. Here's what you said, way back, 24 hours ago:[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1569236' date='Oct 27 2008, 17.44']I'm watching all of you![/quote]then shortly later:[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1569354' date='Oct 27 2008, 18.36']The others? There are a few people that are plodding along doing some guilty things, some innocent things, but not enough to really bother with one way or another yet. I'd rather keep any specific observations on both them and anyone else I have extra stuff on to myself until it's useful. After all, Mafia's as much about what you sit on as what you reveal, as giving away too much too early may cause people to change their play subtly to avoid any traps...[/quote]All thoughts about everyone are always useful. Orkwood claims to be holding back thoughts he has about everyone and says he has been watching everyone closely, but has done NOTHING to show it. Since these posts he was vigorously defending himself when it was obvious he wasn't going to be lynched and now posted, essentially, an OMGUS case against me and has completely ignored everyone else playing in the game. That doesn't strike me as very innocent behavior at all.

[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1570703' date='Oct 28 2008, 18.12']Wasn't one of your smoking guns against me how hardly I fought against cases on me?[/quote]You rambled and raved when there was ONE VOTE on you and it was clear you weren't being lynched. I'm fighting hard because it is you or me at this point. I've looked to see if anyone else makes more sense to me and they don't at this point. You haven't given any evidence that you've done the same.

By the way, as for sucking up to Myre (like you claim I did by mentioning Saltcliffe before I lynched Volmark):[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1569354' date='Oct 27 2008, 18.36']I've also made it clear that I like Myre and want to keep him around for now. If he's a SK, he's likely to help us kill the other one. If he's an innocent, he;s a strong one. Either way, better alive than dead right now.[/quote]This had been pretty clear for ahwile, yet you keep feeling the need to bring it up. That's brown nosing.

Finally,
[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1569819' date='Oct 28 2008, 06.28']Okay, I now feel a lot better about Botley. I just can't see him as odd SK. Of course if we have no death tomorrow night, then another death on night 4, he's my main suspect again. He's not that crafty as to send in a "no kill" is he? :tinhat:[/quote]So I was suspicious for assuming the even-SK was dead, but you do it right here! After having a huge problem with Botley when Orkwood thought his case was half-truths and fabrications, Orkwood is willing to just clear him based on an assumption he finds me suspsicious for also thinking! So Orkwood why, really, are you no longer suspicious of Botley? Just because fewer people are willing to lynch him than lynch me?

[House Dondarrion]

So Farwynd is down to 2 votes. While I don't want to see anyone on L-1 yet, I'm happy to put [b]Farwynd[/b] back on L-2.