Podrick Payne

[The Anti-Targ]

[url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0188871/"]Mackenzie Crook[/url] was my first thought. Pirates of the Caribbean and [British] The Office, are his 2 biggest roles so far I think. I made the suggestion in the official Lannister thread. But there might be other actors worth discussing.

[psim]

you know that Podrick Payne is about 12 years old, don't you?

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='psim' post='1590609' date='Nov 17 2008, 02.11']you know that Podrick Payne is about 12 years old, don't you?[/quote]

Podrick's age in the books is irrelevant. There is nothing essential to the story that requires him to remain that age. In fact the older he is in the TV series the more pathetic he will seem. A squire who is into his adulthood, but even worse squiring for a dwarf who is of a similar age. Truly a pathetic figure.

[psim]

I wouldn't say that his age is irrelevant, and also he isn't meant to be a truly pathetic figure in my opinion, especially when he gets over his usual fears and all, like he did in the battle of the blackwater or later in AFFC when he follows Brienne.
Also while I can see Tyrion accepting a young boy like Podrick as his squire, having a 40 year old men who must come off as a halfwit would just seem like too much of an insult.

That said, Mackenzie Crook was great in The Office and I could see him as Dolorous Edd for example.

[The Blackfish]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1591038' date='Nov 16 2008, 19.16']Podrick's age in the books is irrelevant. There is nothing essential to the story that requires him to remain that age. In fact the older he is in the TV series the more pathetic he will seem. A squire who is into his adulthood, but even worse squiring for a dwarf who is of a similar age. Truly a pathetic figure.[/quote]

Funny, I never thought of Payne as a pathetic figure. As someone trying to escape the shadow of an infamous family member. Someone remarkably courageous and smart. A sense of duty to his master, and childlike honor. And most of all, a child of 12, with great potential as a future warrior. He is a nervous, unsure youth, going through an awkward time in his life. But all signs point to him being someone with a great future.

Just my opinion, but he is anything but pathetic. Nervous and awkward, and greatly underestimated.

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='psim' post='1591046' date='Nov 17 2008, 13.22']I wouldn't say that his age is irrelevant, and also he isn't meant to be a truly pathetic figure in my opinion, especially when he gets over his usual fears and all, like he did in the battle of the blackwater or later in AFFC when he follows Brienne.
Also while I can see Tyrion accepting a young boy like Podrick as his squire, having a 40 year old men who must come off as a halfwit would just seem like too much of an insult.

That said, Mackenzie Crook was great in The Office and I could see him as Dolorous Edd for example.[/quote]


[quote name='The Blackfish' post='1591048' date='Nov 17 2008, 13.22']Funny, I never thought of Payne as a pathetic figure. As someone trying to escape the shadow of an infamous family member. Someone remarkably courageous and smart. A sense of duty to his master, and childlike honor. And most of all, a child of 12, with great potential as a future warrior. He is a nervous, unsure youth, going through an awkward time in his life. But all signs point to him being someone with a great future.

Just my opinion, but he is anything but pathetic. Nervous and awkward, and greatly underestimated.[/quote]

40 can be made to look 20 easy enough.

I dunno if there can be too much of an insult for Tyrion in the TV series.

OK so perhaps I should explain the pathetic figure bit. I should have said tragic figure. The whole thing is for the audience to see him as possessing the virtues of loyalty and honesty for sure, but not amounting to a hill of beans when it comes to the grunt work of soldiery. And unlikley ever to do so. With a 12 year-old there is hope for redemption while you've still got growing up to do. But if you've matured as much as you're goping to then expectation is as low as it can possibly be. Then comes the heroics of CoK and AFFC. No matter how old you are you can always redeem yourself.

The way I see it nearly everyone will get aged up by about 3-5 years from the get go anyway. Sansa, and especially Dany, will need to be at least 16 on their wedding days. It'll appeal to a wider audience even if Rickon is 8 or 9 instead of 4, Bran is 12 or 13 instead of 8/9 etc. Probably more believable for a general audience too. Robb will make a much more striking king at 19 or 20. And Jon will be much more convincing as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch at 20/21. There is no reason at all for Pod to be 12.

It just means Bob's rebellion will have to have occurred 5 years earlier making his reign 5 years longer.

[The Blackfish]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1591089' date='Nov 16 2008, 19.50']40 can be made to look 20 easy enough.

I dunno if there can be too much of an insult for Tyrion in the TV series.

OK so perhaps I should explain the pathetic figure bit. I should have said tragic figure. The whole thing is for the audience to see him as possessing the virtues of loyalty and honesty for sure, but not amounting to a hill of beans when it comes to the grunt work of soldiery. And unlikley ever to do so. With a 12 year-old there is hope for redemption while you've still got growing up to do. But if you've matured as much as you're goping to then expectation is as low as it can possibly be. Then comes the heroics of CoK and AFFC. No matter how old you are you can always redeem yourself.

The way I see it nearly everyone will get aged up by about 3-5 years from the get go anyway. Sansa, and especially Dany, will need to be at least 16 on their wedding days. It'll appeal to a wider audience even if Rickon is 8 or 9 instead of 4, Bran is 12 or 13 instead of 8/9 etc. Probably more believable for a general audience too. Robb will make a much more striking king at 19 or 20. And Jon will be much more convincing as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch at 20/21. There is no reason at all for Pod to be 12.

It just means Bob's rebellion will have to have occurred 5 years earlier making his reign 5 years longer.[/quote]

I definitely agree with you there.

[Venardhi]

And some of us disagree to the same extent. Not everyone has to be aged up, and not everyone should be aged up. If George didn't want Rickon to be a toddler he wouldn't have made him a toddler. Bran doesn't necessarily have to be 8 or 9 or whatever, but I see no reason he HAS to be older. Robb is a boy king trying to prove he is just as much the man his father was, make him look like a 21 year old striking man-king and that goes out the window.

Pod doesn't have to be 12, but it would change the character to have him be more than in his mid-teens.

Change just for the sake of change is unnecessary at best in this case. Let the 40 year-olds play 40 year-olds and not middle-aged teenagers.

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='Venardhi' post='1591182' date='Nov 17 2008, 15.58']And some of us disagree to the same extent. Not everyone has to be aged up, and not everyone should be aged up. If George didn't want Rickon to be a toddler he wouldn't have made him a toddler. Bran doesn't necessarily have to be 8 or 9 or whatever, but I see no reason he HAS to be older. Robb is a boy king trying to prove he is just as much the man his father was, make him look like a 21 year old striking man-king and that goes out the window.

Pod doesn't have to be 12, but it would change the character to have him be more than in his mid-teens.

Change just for the sake of change is unnecessary at best in this case. Let the 40 year-olds play 40 year-olds and not middle-aged teenagers.[/quote]


The point is a 20 year old becomming a respectable king is a struggle. What 20-year old do you know who can live up to the greatness of their much celebrated father? Prince William would be hard pressed to be a King of greatness form the get go if he was to inheret the throne tomorrow. He'd be popular for sure, but he'd still have to mature into the job over a nuber of years. And he wouldn't be trying to lead a breakaway kingdom. Mass audience appeal virtually demands that every young character of significance gets aged up so that they are credible in the eyes of those who are unfamiliar with the source material, and who think in terms of modern day development of maturity.

To refer back to GRRMs intent in having his characters aged as thery are implies GRRM was writing with half an eye on getting a movie or TV deal out of it. I tell ya what, if he was gunning for the screed (big or small) as a significant motiviation then he would have written the series entirely differently and it would be the worse for it.

Massaging it for the screen will require a fair bit of compromise. Character age is one of the less contentious compromises in my view.

As for Pod, he is basically a disposable character. Most of us would like to see him in there, but unless GRRM has plans for him he could be a gonner.

SPOILER: AFFC Spoiler

(he isn't even necessary for Brienne's story in AFFC)

Tyrion can make do with Bronn and a generic boy servant.

Have there been any other suggestions for an actor for Pod?

I also agree that Crook would make a decent Dolorous Edd.

[ogbebaba]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1591227' date='Nov 17 2008, 00.27']I also agree that Crook would make a decent Dolorous Edd.[/quote]

:agree: better than decent actually

[superkick]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1590562' date='Nov 16 2008, 05.31'][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0188871/"]Mackenzie Crook[/url] was my first thought. Pirates of the Caribbean and [British] The Office, are his 2 biggest roles so far I think. I made the suggestion in the official Lannister thread. But there might be other actors worth discussing.[/quote]

cast him as the goat instead :P

[Randall]

[quote name='superkick' post='1591461' date='Nov 17 2008, 15.25']cast him as the goat instead :P[/quote]

great!

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='superkick' post='1591461' date='Nov 18 2008, 03.25']cast him as the goat instead :P[/quote]


[quote name='Randall' post='1592012' date='Nov 18 2008, 11.39']great![/quote]

Not mean enough.

I reckon Geoffery Rush would make a good Goat though. (See the Pirates connection there? In fact I think we transfer the entire cast of Pirates into Westeros and we'd be pretty right. Orlando can be Weymar Royce and be killed off in the first 5 minutes :D )

[Morrigan]

I had the same idea, but with Hayden Christensen. :D

[Durendale]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1590562' date='Nov 16 2008, 11.31'][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0188871/"]Mackenzie Crook[/url] was my first thought. Pirates of the Caribbean and [British] The Office, are his 2 biggest roles so far I think. I made the suggestion in the official Lannister thread. But there might be other actors worth discussing.[/quote]
He would be a perfect Ed Tollet!
I think Pod should be younger.

[superkick]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1592101' date='Nov 17 2008, 18.52']Not mean enough.

I reckon Geoffery Rush would make a good Goat though. (See the Pirates connection there? In fact I think we transfer the entire cast of Pirates into Westeros and we'd be pretty right. Orlando can be Weymar Royce and be killed off in the first 5 minutes :D )[/quote]

dont make a gross generalization as not mean enough, he deifnatly has a look and im sure he could pull off an evil character if required.

[The Blackfish]

Vargo Hoat is the kind of character I see as either getting cut, or becoming an amalgamation of several different characters. The whole Brave Companions (Bloody Mummers) Vargo Hoat, Amory Lorch situation still confuses me to this day, after 5 rereads.

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='The Blackfish' post='1592729' date='Nov 19 2008, 05.50']Vargo Hoat is the kind of character I see as either getting cut, or becoming an amalgamation of several different characters. The whole Brave Companions (Bloody Mummers) Vargo Hoat, Amory Lorch situation still confuses me to this day, after 5 rereads.[/quote]

You have a point there. But you need someone other than the Mountain to

SPOILER: SoS spoiler

capture Jaime in Series 3, who is known to the audience as a character capable of cutting off the swordhand of a highborn noble.

Unless you're gonna dump that particular storyline. An amalgamation character would do quite nicely. It will shorten Aryas prayer, but that is neither here nor there.

But where are the suggestions for Pod? So far only reasons not to have Crook as Pod.

ETA: yay I'm a Noble!!!

[Ammena Piper]

Luis Armand Garcia as Podrick Payne.
[url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1141403/"]http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1141403/[/url]
[url="http://www.buddytv.com/luis-armand-garcia.aspx"]http://www.buddytv.com/luis-armand-garcia.aspx[/url]

[King Nobody]

I hate when movies try to rewrite books. Change is O.K when its necessary but when you start changing things just for the sake of it, IMO it ruins the story. If George wanted Pod to be 20, he would have wrote him as 20, but he didn't, so don't change it, there's no point in aging him up as there is with some of the main characters.