The_BlauerDragon Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='iheartseverus' post='1657277' date='Jan 21 2009, 14.32']Except perhaps, that Sansa doesn't relentlessly [i]gloom[/i] her way through life. Catelyn is like Dolorous Edd without any of his humor or wit, oh woe is me, alas and alack, cover the mirrors, black out the sun, woe, woe, woe. I can't stand her![/quote] Give her time. The gloom and self pity will come to her... She's already showing a few signs of it (the snow-castle)... She's young... it took Catelyn a while to develop fully into the wretched whorror that she is... It will take a little time for Sansa to make it all the way there also... I think that she'll become an accomplice to sweetrobin's murder, she may even become an accomplice to Harry's undoing... then, she will start to dwell and gloom... just like good ole Mom used to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Lee Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Haha I get chastised when I blame some users here for posting spoilers for aDwD in the general section but you guys keep bashing Sansa for being naive! Come on that's even worse! Just leave her alone or at least don't make this another Sansa's-so-fucked-up thread! This one's for Cat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakiki Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You know, when my father is dying, I'm not going to go visit him. Not ever. I'll say "Nuh-uh, gotta take care of my kids. Sorry, Dad. I'll just have to never see you again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='wakiki' post='1657384' date='Jan 21 2009, 17.38']You know, when my father is dying, I'm not going to go visit him. Not ever. I'll say "Nuh-uh, gotta take care of my kids. Sorry, Dad. I'll just have to never see you again."[/quote] Well, I don't know that anyone's suggested she shouldn't visit her father as he lies dying--she absolutely should, IMO. Hold his hand, comfort and care for him, grieve and remember... but then focus on the other great duty that awaits you, those two little boys. That's my take, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Lee Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='iheartseverus' post='1657390' date='Jan 21 2009, 23.41']Well, I don't know that anyone's suggested she shouldn't visit her father as he lies dying--she absolutely should, IMO. Hold his hand, comfort and care for him, grieve and remember... but then focus on the other great duty that awaits you, those two little boys. That's my take, anyway.[/quote] And it's right, surely. As you said. It's okay that she went there to comfort him and stay there for a fortnight or so. But then she should have gone to her children. Robb didn't need her. I bet the Greatjon would've been a better councelor! And Lord Hoster wouldn't have wanted her to stay with him anyway. Or would you want your daughter to neglect her children (your grandchildren! Your own blood!) just to hold your hand and a little baby? He's a great lord, not Sansa... Man up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='General_Lee' post='1657375' date='Jan 21 2009, 15.33']Haha I get chastised when I blame some users here for posting spoilers for aDwD in the general section but you guys keep bashing Sansa for being naive! Come on that's even worse! Just leave her alone or at least don't make this another Sansa's-so-fucked-up thread! This one's for Cat![/quote] So true, this is a Catelyn hate thread... I just got a little carried away... Let us return to discussing the stone-fish... People have talked about the kiss of fire making enhancing traits in a personality... I say it simply strips away the facade and shows what was previously hidden beneath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yeah, and Beric Dondarrion always wanted in the bottom of his heart to be a bandit leader in the Riverlands. Fire consumes, and when it is done nothing is left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Lee Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote]People have talked about the kiss of fire making enhancing traits in a personality... I say it simply strips away the facade and shows what was previously hidden beneath...[/quote] Very likely. That's why it should've stayed in Beric Dondarrion. When Nymeria found Catelyn, I so hoped she would eat her :D That would've been the end of her, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='General_Lee' post='1657417' date='Jan 21 2009, 15.56']Very likely. That's why it should've stayed in Beric Dondarrion. When Nymeria found Catelyn, I so hoped she would eat her :D That would've been the end of her, for sure.[/quote] I would hope that even wild beasts had better sense than to eat something [i]THAT[/i] rotten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtaud Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='iheartseverus' post='1657277' date='Jan 21 2009, 22.32']Except perhaps, that Sansa doesn't relentlessly [i]gloom[/i] her way through life. Catelyn is like Dolorous Edd without any of his humor or wit, oh woe is me, alas and alack, cover the mirrors, black out the sun, woe, woe, woe. I can't stand her![/quote] Shame on her, everybody went out of their way to make her life so happy! But no, she had to grumble, grumble, grumble... [quote]So true, this is a Catelyn hate thread... I just got a little carried away... Let us return to discussing the stone-fish...[/quote] I suppose it is now. It's a pity, it started like a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtaud Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Double post, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='Courtaud' post='1657457' date='Jan 21 2009, 18.25']I suppose it is now. It's a pity, it started like a discussion.[/quote] And it still is, to be sure. A couple firecracker-type posts won't kill an interesting topic. People are just talking, opining here and there. It's fun, no harm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakiki Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 [quote name='iheartseverus' post='1657390' date='Jan 21 2009, 17.41']Well, I don't know that anyone's suggested she shouldn't visit her father as he lies dying--she absolutely should, IMO. Hold his hand, comfort and care for him, grieve and remember... but then focus on the other great duty that awaits you, those two little boys. That's my take, anyway.[/quote] Bleh. Look, if my dad is going to die any day, I'm staying with him until he does. There is [i]no[/i] chance of me leaving. And then afterwards, I'd go to my children who can certainly wait. And that's just me. [i]Cat[/i] had many other reasons (Robb & Sansa, primarily) to stay in the south, reasons that have been pointed out by other people in this thread. And let's not forget that the author has reasons as well. We needed a view of the King on the North. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackfish Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 If you've never dealt with major depression that can be brought on by so much incredible loss in such a short amount of time, what exactly qualifies you to comment on it? I mean, I'm glad if you've never experienced it, but it sounds very judgmental and dismissive all the same. Catelyn did not gloom her way through life, she gloomed her way through the novels because Martin had bad stuff happen to her -- the worst things that could ever happen to her -- since the very beginning. If you don't enjoy reading it, that's one thing, but depression is an incredibly difficult experience and I've never understood why people are so dismissive of it. Why is it so offensive that she becomes depressed? Human beings get that way. And why no responding to the points Red Sun and Mormont made? They kind of addressed your standards and I don't see any response to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 [quote name='Lady Blackfish' post='1657531' date='Jan 21 2009, 19.49']what exactly qualifies you to comment on it?[/quote] Hmmm, now there's an interesting question. What [i]qualifies[/i] me to comment on the actions of an imaginary character in a fictional story, what [i]qualifies[/i] me to open a discussion at a discussion board about the topic. Actually, to be quite honest, I hadn't realized I needed to be pre-qualified! Or that you're the one I had to submit my application to! (I take it you [i]are[/i] the one who issues Certificates of Qualification to determine which members are qualified to have opinions on which actions of which characters, and which members simply don't qualify?) This gets tricky: I've never flayed anyone, I've never thrown a child out of a window, I've never committed incest, I've never cut off my horse's head, I've never chopped anybody's feet off, I've never stuck my brother's head in a brazier, I've never put a crossbow bolt through anybody at all, I've never poisoned my husband (well, not deliberately), I've never stabbed a stableboy, I've never even seen a wight, let alone burned one to a crisp. I've never executed a deserter, fired arrows into a mammoth, fed corn to a talking raven, given birth to a shadow-baby, warged into a direwolf, worn a crystal crown or smuggled a shipful of onions. Alas. *wanders off feeling distinctly... unqualified* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackfish Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Sorry you reacted that way, but I don't see what's unreasonable about saying that not experiencing that kind of loss means that you might not understand it. You do come across as very dismissive of that experience (whereas I've never seen you say that someone should shrug off a defenestration, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 [quote name='Lady Blackfish' post='1657547' date='Jan 21 2009, 21.18']I don't see what's unreasonable about saying that not experiencing that kind of loss means that you might not understand it.[/quote] If you had clue one about the life I've lived... well, what's the point. This is beyond absurd. But thanks for the inspiration for my new sig. I love it. hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackfish Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Then can you explain to me why you are so dismissive of her depression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Lee Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Because she had duties. And her duties are dismissive of her depressions. Her children are dismissive of her depressions. Not we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackfish Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 That's a separate issue though. She stayed with her father and with Robb because she felt they needed her more. That is one item to discuss. But her depression is something else. She doesn't stay with her father and Robb because she is depressed, it's a separate thing I'm talking about here. She is depressed as an effect of her losses, it doesn't act as a cause in her decision about where to go. I want to know why her depression angers people. It's not just that people don't want to read about it, then people would simply say that they don't like reading her chapters, that they find it uninteresting or not fun, etc. But people are offended by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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