House Ashford Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Miyagi' post='1720990' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.43']Easily the most suspicious thing posted so far. Hall is the only real suspicious person? Okay, first, if you think the case on him is 'very very light' then how is he also 'the only real suspicious person'? Second, if you do suspect him, then you need to explain why. Are you just agreeing with other people? Or is there something more? Third, are you really ready to just throw up your hands and stop looking for suspicious behavior? There's still a ton of time left in the day. Why would you be willing to just settle on the lynch of somebody, when you described the case against him as 'very very light'? That makes absolutely no sense. So Hall is the obvious candidate to be lynched, in spite of the fact that you don't think the evidence on him is incriminating? And again, you are ready to just stop looking for evidence, with so much time left in the day?[/quote] You see I'll be getting off the internet soon, and probably won't be back on before the daye ends. I was going on the fact that other people think Hall is suspicious to say he is "the only real suspicious person". I don't think there is much of a case on Hall, but I think it's probably better than the one on anyone else except maybe Espinoza. I'd have to see how the game evolves before I can make a proper judgement. I've got to go now anyway. Bye, all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Clegane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Tommy' post='1720977' date='Mar 16 2009, 18.34']Karl - Dude, stand up for yourself! We lynch people we think might be innocent all the time, especially day one.[/quote]Tommy, I don't know about you, but I won't support a case I am not convinced by, even at day 1, unless in few last hours of the day. In kingmaker game, I won't support it at all. Why? Your vote is needless to make a decision. The king is the one to decide. Your duty is to inform him (and the rest of the field) what do you actually think, there is absolutely no need to join the majority just because it is a majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Tommy' post='1720977' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.34']Espinoza - You don't read the rules? OK, fine. I know that there are players out there who do this. Did you even know that this was a king/ref maker game? Certainly you will admit to yourself, if not to us, how your first 2 posts (*stretch*, "Who, me, king?") make you look a bit iffy.[/quote] I knew it was a Kingmaker game. It is my least favorite game. I hate being King, which is part of why I surprised. Being king on day one is the suckiest. If I had paid attention I would have waited the 8 minutes and let someone else (V in theis case) have it. [quote name='Miyagi' post='1720990' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.43']I'm confused by the contradiction in these 2 posts. Can you explain further? You went from saying that you think Hall 'belongs in a black gi' (which I took to mean that you suspect him) to then saying 2 hours later that you don't want to lynch him. I understand that part of the reason is because he's speaking up and posting, but is that it? Do you still suspect him or has something changed there?[/quote] Yes, that is it. No contridiction at all. I'd rather eliminate the dead weight...you know the people with only 3 posts who have contibuted nothing so far? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Corbray Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Hall' post='1720848' date='Mar 16 2009, 09.47']Seems the popular consensus was that I shouldn't have brought up the possibility of Espinoza's guilt until tomorrow. I debated whether to say something now or just observe, but maybe I'm honest to a fault. If anything, it saves the argument from being brought up later today as a means to deter a popular lynch choice. Maybe it's WIFOM, but without knowing who'd be accused later today, it seems rather short sighted of me to bring this up now if I was working for the Cobra.[/quote] Need you to clarify this, because I'm not understanding your point. How would suggesting that Espinoza is suspicious because he may have posted quickly to grab the Referee job deter a popular lynch choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Bobby Brown' post='1721000' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.48']Tommy, I don't know about you, but I won't support a case I am not convinced by, even at day 1, unless in few last hours of the day. In kingmaker game, I won't support it at all. Why? Your vote is needless to make a decision. The king is the one to decide. Your duty is to inform him (and the rest of the field) what do you actually think, there is absolutely no need to join the majority just because it is a majority.[/quote] You are absolutely right. I need to adjust my thinking to kingmaker thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Clegane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Karl Smith' post='1720996' date='Mar 16 2009, 18.47']You see I'll be getting off the internet soon, and probably won't be back on before the daye ends.[/quote]Too bad. It's very convinient for you to disappear exactly when feeling a lot of pressure. [quote]I'd have to see how the game evolves before I can make a proper judgement.[/quote]So, you preferred to do a random judgement before being able to make a proper judgement? Again, too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 In a way I'm hesitant to give my support to lynching Karl on the grounds that he's doing too good of a job at seeming guilty. Doesn't mean he's not, but I'm pretty sure most FM want to remain in the game for the long haul. [quote name='Espinoza' post='1721004' date='Mar 16 2009, 11.51']Yes, that is it. No contridiction at all. I'd rather eliminate the dead weight...you know the people with only 3 posts who have contibuted nothing so far? :P[/quote] No contradiction? Funny, you made no mention of me being 'dead weight' as reason for wanting to vote me off until now. [quote name='Miyagi' post='1721009' date='Mar 16 2009, 11.55']Need you to clarify this, because I'm not understanding your point. How would suggesting that Espinoza is suspicious because he may have posted quickly to grab the Referee job deter a popular lynch choice?[/quote] The point I was trying to make is that if I [i]were[/i] doing the things I've been accused of doing with regards to Espinoza, there'd be a more apt time for me to claim they look suspicious. The course of the days events were no where near decided at the time I mentioned my suspicion, and if I were looking to get myself or my 'partner' out of the hangman's noose bringing something like that into play might help. I'm not sure if my point is coming through here. It does make sense from my perspective however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Corbray Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Espinoza' post='1721004' date='Mar 16 2009, 11.51']Yes, that is it. No contridiction at all. I'd rather eliminate the dead weight...you know the people with only 3 posts who have contibuted nothing so far? :P[/quote] I'd personally argue that you should lynch the person you find most suspicious. Cutting dead weight is a cop out, unless you suspect that the player is being quiet for some reason thats indicative of guilt (trying to go under the radar, escape notice, etc). At the same time, I'd also argue that the most suspicious person, at this point, is not Hall. If I had a vote, it would currently be on Dutch or Karl Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Miyagi' post='1721039' date='Mar 16 2009, 13.23']At the same time, I'd also argue that the most suspicious person, at this point, is not Hall. If I had a vote, it would currently be on Dutch or Karl Smith.[/quote] Did I miss it? Why Dutch? eta: I see your post where you disagree with D's assessment of Hall. But you don't really say why you think he might be guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Miyagi' post='1721039' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.23']At the same time, I'd also argue that the most suspicious person, at this point, is not Hall. If I had a vote, it would currently be on Dutch or Karl Smith.[/quote] I agree with pretty much every point you've made in your last few posts, including your suspects... which of course makes me a little worried you're guilty yourself :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Corbray Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Hall' post='1721036' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.21']In a way I'm hesitant to give my support to lynching Karl on the grounds that he's doing too good of a job at seeming guilty. Doesn't mean he's not, but I'm pretty sure most FM want to remain in the game for the long haul.[/quote] Evil players can be incompetent just as easily as innocent players. And we've caught a few FM in the past based purely on day 1 middle of the road posts. So while I understand your argument, I'm not willing to rely on the 'too guilty to be guilty' theory. [quote name='Hall']No contradiction? Funny, you made no mention of me being 'dead weight' as reason for wanting to vote me off until now.[/quote] Did Espinoza list dead weight as a reason to vote you off? I thought he was saying he finds you suspicious, but he'd rather lynch somebody who he felt was dead weight? [quote name='Hall']The point I was trying to make is that if I [i]were[/i] doing the things I've been accused of doing with regards to Espinoza, there'd be a more apt time for me to claim they look suspicious. The course of the days events were no where near decided at the time I mentioned my suspicion, and if I were looking to get myself or my 'partner' out of the hangman's noose bringing something like that into play might help. I'm not sure if my point is coming through here. It does make sense from my perspective however.[/quote] Sorry, still doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand how making that argument against Espinoza would influence who Espinoza decides to lynch. It would make sense if you were talking about an argument against somebody other than the Referee - your claim would be that if you had a good argument to derail the lynch, you'd want to save it for [i]after[/i] you found out whether or not the lynch needed to be derailed? Right? But that doesn't work in this particular case, because you'd be moving the lynch away from whoever you are trying to protect, and on to Espinoza....who can't be lynched. The plan would completely fall apart there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Reading leasson #1: Please point out the words "I WANT TO LYNCH HALL" [quote name='Espinoza' post='1720774' date='Mar 16 2009, 09.29']Vidal, what are your thoughts on Hall? He made the first jump to serious posting, looked for an easy target. I still think he would have picked whoever the poster was. [i]I am thinking he belongs in a black Gi[/i].[/quote] Reading lesson #2: The sentense in italics means what? Yes, that is correct. I have a suspicision of him. Is it definate? No. Does it say I will look for no other suspects? No, it does not. Look closely at the phrasing: How strong is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 My appologies. I will edit if needed. It is frustraing to see your words misrepresented. I have a mild suspicion of Hall. It is not huge and there is very little to go on. Even as a day one case, it is weaker than weak. So yes, I do see his as suspicious. We also have several players that are saying nothing. FM have hidden in the bottom before and have skated. I want it know that is not a safe place to hide. I want EVERYONE to participate. I will vote out a totally useless player over a mildly suspicious one. Seems to odds are about the same in that case. I have been clear this time? Is there anyone who doesn't understand my position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Corbray Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Tommy' post='1721047' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.29']Did I miss it? Why Dutch? eta: I see your post where you disagree with D's assessment of Hall. But you don't really say why you think he might be guilty.[/quote] I think Dutch went after an easy target. In the sense that he chose to target somebody who had criticized the Referee. Hall had said a few things that may have possibly caused Espinoza to want to lynch him - I think somebody stepping in at that point, with an argument to lynch Hall, is opportunistic. Also, like I said before, I don't agree with his arguments. To me, it looks as if he's stretching in an attempt to provide justification for lynching Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Clegane Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Miyagi' post='1721039' date='Mar 16 2009, 19.23']At the same time, I'd also argue that the most suspicious person, at this point, is not Hall. If I had a vote, it would currently be on Dutch or Karl Smith.[/quote]I agree with Tommy. Suspicions on Karl are evident, but you should explain what you have against Dutch. For now, I don't see even a ghost of a case in this direction. ETA: crosspost. Now I've seen your answer, Miyagi, but you still need more justification on lynching Dutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Corbray Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Espinoza' post='1721068' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.41']It is frustraing to see your words misrepresented.[/quote] Are you talking to me? If so, then I'll respond. Don't think I ever misrepresented your words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Corbray Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Bobby Brown' post='1721091' date='Mar 16 2009, 13.00']I agree with Tommy. Suspicions on Karl are evident, but you should explain what you have against Dutch. For now, I don't see even a ghost of a case in this direction.[/quote] Read above, I just posted why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Miyagi' post='1721061' date='Mar 16 2009, 12.36']Evil players can be incompetent just as easily as innocent players. And we've caught a few FM in the past based purely on day 1 middle of the road posts. So while I understand your argument, I'm not willing to rely on the 'too guilty to be guilty' theory.[/quote] I'm not the biggest fan of said arguments myself as they have been used by FM/symps as support in the past. I assure you however I'm not saying it to support Karl in any way, but one must assume he's a rather inexperienced player in order to be making such grave errors if he is a baddie. I can just as easily see an inexperienced innocent making similar mistakes. I just don't think we should focus on him at the exclusion of all others. I'd like to hear your argument on Dutch, for example. (My own suspicion boils down to the way he overblew my actions with regards to calling out Espinoza) [quote]Did Espinoza list dead weight as a reason to vote you off? I thought he was saying he finds you suspicious, but he'd rather lynch somebody who he felt was dead weight?[/quote] My interpretation of his answer was that his change of heart regarding suspicion of me occurred after I started to post more. Prior to that he didn't state anything about me being quiet as reasons for why he suspected me. The only reason he gave was with regards to me picking him as an 'easy target'. (...and in what universe is an unlynchable player an 'easy target' I might add :P) [quote]Sorry, still doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand how making that argument against Espinoza would influence who Espinoza decides to lynch. It would make sense if you were talking about an argument against somebody other than the Referee - your claim would be that if you had a good argument to derail the lynch, you'd want to save it for [i]after[/i] you found out whether or not the lynch needed to be derailed? Right? But that doesn't work in this particular case, because you'd be moving the lynch away from whoever you are trying to protect, and on to Espinoza....who can't be lynched. The plan would completely fall apart there.[/quote] But it has the possibility of putting him in just enough doubt to maybe sway popular opinion away from that particular person. Sure the King would still be able to vito general consensus but it may end up making him look bad in the future. Anyway, it's a moot point as it didn't occur. ETA: OK, I totally forgot about the C.F... I didn't factor that in. My bad :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Miyagi' post='1721094' date='Mar 16 2009, 14.01']Are you talking to me? If so, then I'll respond. Don't think I ever misrepresented your words.[/quote] I don't think it was you. I'm in and out and frustrated over other things. But hell, gues that makes it more enjoyable for the spectators. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Espinoza' post='1721106' date='Mar 16 2009, 13.08']I don't think it was you. I'm in and out and frustrated over other things. But hell, gues that makes it more enjoyable for the spectators. :/[/quote] Well, if it's something I said don't take it too personally. Just chillax, 'tis just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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