House Connington Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I have a few questions/thoughts relating to Tully.Starting with this statement you made to Erenford:I'm yet to decide how I feel about your end of day play. I'm inclined to believe that it makes you look more innocent. A thinking FM would have stretched out the game of chicken with Tyrell longer, preferring to take the point than lynch even an innocent. I think that whoever said that FM won't be playing for points was wrong. They'll certainly be playing to deny innocents points, and whichever of them is left alive at the end is going to want a goodly cache of them for their own use. I think optimal FM play would have been to get the hammer, but an FM would have denied the innocents a lot of points by screwing up the lynch entirely. Of the three options open too you last night you chose the one that was least beneficial to the baddies.3 minutes...ok, I'd be willing to hammer Botley. :/Tully, how do you feel about Tyrell? He went for the hammer, something you said you expected from a FM.I know he's done other things since then that make him look innocent, like coming up with these plans to help the innocents. But I'm surprised you didn't mention any suspicion of him earlier (unless I missed it).Later you said this to me:I really don't know how far to consider the points in looking at people's likely actions. I know I talked about them a bit with regard to Erenford, but I suspect that evil's top priorities will be the same as usual: stay alive, get innocents lynched, kill folks messily. I imagine that point considerations will be a distant second to all of this. Either way, I don't think we can make a solid enough assumption to do any real analysis.So first you said that you think the FM will be playing to deny innocents points and gather their own points. But later you say that you think points are a distant second concern for them. I know those two statements aren't entirely mutually exclusive, but it does look to be a contradiction to some extent. If you think they are concerned about points, then you should be thinking over my speculation, not just shoving it off to the side like you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I don't want to spend 4 points on shielding myself. It would handicap me, and it would be unfair, considering that I came up with the plan.So, we're left with two options: have an odd man who would shield himself, in which case I'd give him an honor of being the hammer vote, which should gain him an extra point, which should be enough for them to shield themselves. Anyway, since this is a kind of punishment, I believe that player should be our top suspect, the person with the second greatest number of votes.The other option is for us to have a group of 3. I still have to check to see if the FM could manipulate this version somehow, but currently it seems better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Connington Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 You miss the point. If we team up now, there's an even number of us. Once someone is lynched, it goes odd. We then have to arrange it so that tyrell is the odd man out, and all send in our heals, before the killers fire off a quick "Kill soandso" and the mods end night.I understand what you are saying but I'm sure we can figure out a way around it. Cerwyn - I don't think mods would end a night before receiving notices from every player having some points to do something.I never sent anything into the mods about my points last night, and they didn't wait to hear from me. They ended night after only 90 minutes. Maybe we can ask them to wait to hear from everyone (or for the full 8 hours to pass) tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Actually, I really like this plan. It drastically increases our chances. One little suggestion: the lone player should purchase notebook of Gregor Clegane. Cheaper and effectively the same.No sane player would do this, as it guarantees his death and him losing the game, since this isn't exactly a team game.Those who refuse this plan and do not provide some serious flaw in the plan or some other reason for it, become my next lynches.:agree: I'm looking at you, Stokeworth.Tyrell currently looks best. This effectively neutralises the FM's killing powers. He will recieve my heal tonight because this drastically increases chance of him getting NK.Are you proposing to be my healing partner? How sweet. It's ok by me, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gaga Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Ok, it's better. This way, we pay 12 points for having no kill next night and, therefore, winning an extra day. Cerwyn - I don't think mods would end a night before receiving notices from every player having some points to do something.Depends how the mods interpret the rules. I'd read them as "you don't have a power until you tell us you want it", so there wouldn't be any power roles that hadn't sent in their actions.Night was short last night. Very short. We all had at least 1 point. Are you implying that you believe everyone sent in an action / no action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 We have enough time, if I arrange the list in the next 2 or 3 hours, everyone should be able to send in a provisional.Plus, I think we're able to buy the actions before actually using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gaga Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 We have enough time, if I arrange the list in the next 2 or 3 hours, everyone should be able to send in a provisional.Plus, I think we're able to buy the actions before actually using them.Organise it, sure. I'd suggest that we ask the mods for verification of how it'd work though, so we can just pull out / not spend our points if it does seem impossible to work out without knowing who's going to be lynched. :-pPS. yes, this is an official request for Targ to tell us how he'd treat an attempt to delay night while we all get our actions in. Would he allow us to all just buy a heal, but not specify who yet? Or to delay night until we've all had a chance to act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Mooton Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 No sane player would do this, as it guarantees his death and him losing the game, since this isn't exactly a team game.Well, I prefer to play this like a regular game. I'll risk to die if it would reduce killers' chance to win. Their lose is more important to me than my (highly doubtful) chance to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Velaryon Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Personally, I like the heals being circular idea best. I heal the person listed below me in the player list, they heal the one below them, etc. It's quick and easily accessible for reference, it's random in regard to role, and it's easy to make a provisional. (If X is lynched, I heal Y) Is there a reason I'm not seeing that we just don't do it this way?Also, how many days do we think we can keep this up? Can we rig things so that people low on points are able to gain a few by being first vote, hammer vote, etc? I haven't worked out how many points are possible or predictable each day, but if this is a one off, are we sure we want to do this today? I think we should be able to do this at least a couple of days, but after that there may not be the points to do so.eta: and yes, I would like verification from Targ on if they wait at night for all possible actions. I am thinking not, so provisionals are the way to go. Again - easiest with circular healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well, I prefer to play this like a regular game. I'll risk to die if it would reduce killers' chance to win. Their lose is more important to me than my (highly doubtful) chance to win.So, you agree to be the odd man out, and buy Gregor's notebook instead of a shield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Connington Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Ah, I took that to be a transition between serious and joke phase post. At that time there wasn't a great deal to say, and what needed to be said to stark, I was already saying, so yeah. I don't consider that a notable post either way. Do you? And why? What's remarkable about it?Did you ignore the case against him on day 1? He posted during the middle of your back and forth with Stark, but didn't bother to comment on any of it, beyond agreeing with Stark that Yronwood's post was inane. He was there, but chose to remain outside the debate for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Personally, I like the heals being circular idea best. I heal the person listed below me in the player list, they heal the one below them, etc. It's quick and easily accessible for reference, it's random in regard to role, and it's easy to make a provisional. (If X is lynched, I heal Y) Is there a reason I'm not seeing that we just don't do it this way?Also, how many days do we think we can keep this up? Can we rig things so that people low on points are able to gain a few by being first vote, hammer vote, etc? I haven't worked out how many points are possible or predictable each day, but if this is a one off, are we sure we want to do this today? I think we should be able to do this at least a couple of days, but after that there may not be the points to do so.eta: and yes, I would like verification from Targ on if they wait. I am thinking not, so provisionals are the way to go. Again - easiest with circular healing.I don't really like the idea of circular healing. It feels too complicated to me. Not sure why, but I really dislike it on a purely gut level.We should be able to do this for at least 3 days, even more if we organize in order to give everyone enough points, and that's enough, as this only works when there is more than 1 FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gaga Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Did you ignore the case against him on day 1? He posted during the middle of your back and forth with Stark, but didn't bother to comment on any of it, beyond agreeing with Stark that Yronwood's post was inane. He was there, but chose to remain outside the debate for the most part.Fair enough. I still don't feel the Erenford case was as strong as the one on Botley, it was almost identical, only Botley posted a lot during that time while Erenford only once. That's probably why I didn't really remember you was the one who had made that case. Botley looked far more involved in the game without being so than Erenford did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gaga Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I don't really like the idea of circular healing. It feels too complicated to me. Not sure why, but I really dislike it on a purely gut level.We should be able to do this for at least 3 days, even more if we organize in order to give everyone enough points, and that's enough, as this only works when there is more than 1 FM.Circular healing is just as good. If we go on "order of the Original post", then we all heal the guy below us, with a provisional to heal the one below that should he be lynched first. That way it goes a > b > c > d > e > a. When D hangs, it's fixed to a > b > c > e > a. If e drops dead, C either messed up and didn't make their heal provisional, or C didn't heal at all and is therefore a killer. The living player immediately above the nightkill is the one who was responsible for healing them, and thus guilty. There's no way for the killer to screw with it as long as we use a simple order rotation like that.edit: it's more likely for a traitorous innocent to screw it by saving their points or slyly guarding someone else in the chain as a frame attempt, than for a killer to screw up the plan by somehow subverting the rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Mooton Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 So, you agree to be the odd man out, and buy Gregor's notebook instead of a shield?Yeah.I suppose I should have two points now, since I never changed my vote on Erenford.And, well, I suppose this would frighten them from killing me. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Connington Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I don't really like the idea of circular healing. It feels too complicated to me. Not sure why, but I really dislike it on a purely gut level.I don't understand the objection. It's an easy way to make your plan work. Unless you're just afraid because I'm the one set to heal you, and I'm a drunk. Don't worry, I'll keep my hands steady, I promise. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Stokeworth Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yeah.I suppose I should have two points now, since I never changed my vote on Erenford.And, well, I suppose this would frighten them from killing me. :)Well, yeah, that occured to me too. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gaga Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 So, will we be allowed to set a "I want to heal B, but if he's lynched, then I want to heal C instead" type provisional? If so, lets use the players list as posted here:[quote name='King Wayne Targaryen' date='07 December 2009 - 01:19 There will be 14 players:Siobhan StokeworthVeronica LannisterGareth StarkRupert MartellJez TyrellRose TullyEadweard DondarrionThomas Hunt StonetreeRonald KenningFrancesca CerwynVictor ErenfordStevie Yronwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gaga Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Siobhan StokeworthVeronica LannisterGareth StarkRupert MartellJez TyrellRose TullyEadweard DondarrionThomas Hunt StonetreeRonald KenningFrancesca CerwynVictor ErenfordStevie Yronwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Connington Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Anybody else find it funny that Erenford is supposed to heal Yronwood? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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