Brienne's one word.

[shadowbinding shoe]

As I read it Brienne doesn't have a chance from the BWB thugs that hung her no matter what she says. These people developed a taste for hanging and it would ruin their day to string the wench down and let her breathe. Also wouldn't they worry she would get back at them for doing it?

She had her chance to become one of Stoneheart's pawns and she didn't take it. Yelling "I want to make the plea bargain!" after the trial is over and they're about to throw you in the jail doesn't work.

She'd gurgle "Thwuurrrd, thwuurrrd, blah" and Lem would ask "What's that you said?" "Arrrgh..." and that would be the end of that. Stoneheart may have had thoughts of sparing the traitor if she served her but the rest of her henchmen (the ones that hang her) don't have any. Why should they want to spare her? They have their own men to hunt down Jaime and even if she was once a good warrior, Biter ate her up so now she'd be a burden on them instead.

The whole: she must be saved because that would be good story building may hold water (and may not. she already accomplished her purpose in FFC. She let us see a new view of the post war riverlands from a non noble perspective, introduced various interesting characters and even killed some of the human monsters prowling in the area) but going against her character to accomplish it is much worse than the mere Death snatched her before she could do more things.

She may not be oath bound by Jaime but she is deeply in his debt. Going to kill the guy who saved you from death, rape, dismemberment and a slew of other things is not a very chivalrous thing to do not to mention the bonding that she did with him. She did the right choice morally not to accept Uncat commands and would go against her character to start back pedalling now.

If we believe her role is not done in the story we shouldn't seek "Thwuurrrd!" we should expect someone to rescue her at the last second.

At first i thought it would be Jaime coming to her rescue again but rethinking it I relized it would be unlikely since he doesn't seem in a rash to leave Riverun and catching Brienne just when she needs him would stretch chance. But Jaime is not the only possibility. I believe it would be Gendry that would rescue her. The brotherhood really let Gendry down. They had Biter and his fellows coming at them and the only ones that helped them were Brienne and her friends. The BWB members were supposed to be there and they were off somewhere else instead.

Gendry seemed pretty cold to Brienne but maybe that was because he was struggling with his loyalties at this point. He wanted to be one of the good BWB members and there comes this Lannister woman warrior and show him by personal example how unworthy his fellow BWB members are. That's why he lashes out at her.

After she is taken he gathers others that think like him (maybe after sulking alone for a while) and secretly follows her and rescue her from the noose.

When Brienne sees him she thinks it's Renly again coming to recieve her to the dead-lands (or whatever ghosts do) and sighs "Renly" with her last breath. Or maybe she said "Jaime" before Gendry comes to her rescue.

There would be no "Thwuurrrds"

[Happy Ent]

She did the right choice morally not to accept Uncat commands and would go against her character to start back pedalling now.

Ghaa! The conflict between morality and honour is the whole point. Of Brienne's arc, and a major point of the whole epic.

In Storm she accuses Jaime of Kingslaying. Again and again. She really, really loathes him because he betrayed his oath. Did Jaime do the moral thing killing Aerys and saving Kings Landing? Absolutely. But that argument doesn't enter into Brienne's evaluation then. His oathbreaking is the only thing she cares about. No matter the why. Jaime swore an oath of obedience and old-Brienne hates him for breaking it.

And now we've come full circle. Now Brienne is the one who swore an oath of obedience. (To Catelyn Stark.) And she breaks it. Her reasons? Love, personal commitment. Nothing like saving a million lives. Much weaker reasons than Jaime had. And the magic is that GRRM gets us to be inside Brienne's head and actually feel it's unfair. Towards her.

But the thruth is that she gets to taste a bit of her old medicine. Form somebody who can really hold a grudge. Not like old-Brienne.

So I absolutely understant that Brienne's view of these things has changed. (Which is why so far hers is my absolutely favourite story arc.) But you go as far as saying that putting her oath above her personal feelings of morality actually goes against her character? No. A few hundred pages back it would be exactly what she'd do. In fact, she'd detest anybody who behaved differently.

[shadowbinding shoe]

Ghaa! The conflict between morality and honour is the whole point. Of Brienne's arc, and a major point of the whole epic.

That's true. Still...

In Storm she accuses Jaime of Kingslaying. Again and again. She really, really loathes him because he betrayed his oath. Did Jaime do the moral thing killing Aerys and saving Kings Landing? Absolutely. But that argument doesn't enter into Brienne's evaluation then. His oathbreaking is the only thing she cares about. No matter the why. Jaime swore an oath of obedience and old-Brienne hates him for breaking it.

That's simply not the way it was. Brienne assumed there was no WHY. He just did it. Else why hasn't she heard his good, moral reasons? Once she hears why he did it her view of his 'crimes' changes. That is part of the reason why she no longer despises him.

And now we've come full circle. Now Brienne is the one who swore an oath of obedience. (To Catelyn Stark.) And she breaks it. Her reasons? Love, personal commitment. Nothing like saving a million lives. Much weaker reasons than Jaime had. And the magic is that GRRM gets us to be inside Brienne's head and actually feel it's unfair. Towards her.

What about her obligation to him for saving her life and generally taking care of her when she's in need? It may not be a formal oath of fealty but there is an obligation there.

But the thruth is that she gets to taste a bit of her old medicine. Form somebody who can really hold a grudge. Not like old-Brienne.

Well, we have there an example of once again judging on partial and skewed knowledge. In that sense we have history repeating itself (even to the part where the accused - Brienne - can't find the words to answer like: "He may be your enemy, but I owe my life to him" or "He may be from a rival house to you but he really tried to help me fulfill the quest you'd given me"

So I absolutely understant that Brienne's view of these things has changed. (Which is why so far hers is my absolutely favourite story arc.) But you go as far as saying that putting her oath above her personal feelings of morality actually goes against her character? No. A few hundred pages back it would be exactly what she'd do. In fact, she'd detest anybody who behaved differently.

She had uptight obedience to the dictates of honor but was it from thickheadedness or lack of proper experience in teh real world?

[shadowbinding shoe]

Happy Ent -

I saw earlier a post I was sure you would respond to (maybe you did respond on other threads. I don't know.)

Brienne is hanged on a willow tree while her companions are hanged on oaks. What's the significanse of this?

Does that mean that unlike the judgement on Pod and Hyle justice on her was fickle or maybe she still has a chance because it's only a willow hanging?

[Happy Ent]

Brienne is hanged on a willow tree while her companions are hanged on oaks. What's the significanse of this?

OMG what a great find! Under the "FfC Reread" I posted arboreal perspectives for every chapter, so how could I miss this! The most significant arboreal reference in the entire epos and it goes right over my head.

What it means? Your interpretation is certainly compelling. I have to think more.

[The_BlauerDragon]

Happy Ent -

I saw earlier a post I was sure you would respond to (maybe you did respond on other threads. I don't know.)

Brienne is hanged on a willow tree while her companions are hanged on oaks. What's the significanse of this?

Does that mean that unlike the judgement on Pod and Hyle justice on her was fickle or maybe she still has a chance because it's only a willow hanging?

I think it means that they ran out of strong branches in the oak trees and had to find another tree that was suitable for hanging her...

[The_BlauerDragon]

I think it means that they ran out of strong branches in the oak trees and had to find another tree that was suitable for hanging her...

I have been mulling this over and over in my mind... correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the entire Tyrell Host marching (at break-neck speed) through the exact same area that Brienne is being hung in on their way to King's Landing presently?

[shadowbinding shoe]

I have been mulling this over and over in my mind... correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the entire Tyrell Host marching (at break-neck speed) through the exact same area that Brienne is being hung in on their way to King's Landing presently?

I don't think so. They'll use the main roads not traipse through the middle of the forest and why do you think they are even in the same area?

[The_BlauerDragon]

I don't think so. They'll use the main roads not traipse through the middle of the forest and why do you think they are even in the same area?

That was my impression of the geography... Am I way off? I thought that they'd have to cross through that area to go from where they were to King's Landing... Is this not the case?

[redcandle17]

That was my impression of the geography... Am I way off? I thought that they'd have to cross through that area to go from where they were to King's Landing... Is this not the case?

I looked at the maps in AFfC. If Tarly's men use the Kingsroad, they may have to pass by the Saltpans-Quiet Isle area where Brienne was before she was abducted by the BwB. But Brienne was out of it for a while; we don't know where the BwB took her. She may not be in that area anymore.

[lokisnow]

Freedom!

man this thread is old...

[Jon Targaryen]

I thought Brienne made it all the way to the inn at the intersection of the River Road, Eastern Road and Kingsroad. But the BWB took her somewhere else.

[Euron]

My guess is she said: Arya

Yeah, I know this has been hashed out before, but the reasons are interesting.

Everyone ASSUMES that the bandits told zombie Cat about Arya, but we don't know that. In fact WHY would they?

"Umm mam, we DID have your younger daugther for a few weeks, but we let her run off and get captured by the Hound and all. We didn't harm her, no, not at all, we was ges trying to ransome her back to your brother..."

"Silly, us did we say RANSOME? No no we meant return with all haste, and it was really only a day or so we had her, really. We fed her real good too."

Brienne had made no mention of Arya her talk to Cat, only Sansa.

How about Brienne crosssing the small sea in search or Arya? It could happen.

[Faceless Man of Braavos]

I still maintain that Sandor is going to rescue Brienne and that her screamed "word" has something to do with the fact that as she is swinging on the rope he enters the hideout... don't really know what the word would be in this case, though.

[Rhaegon Targaryen]

The word is sword. Any other word means instant death.

[Jon Targaryen]

Sword was just set up so well. We know she says one word. She had a choice of two words just a bit earlier. Saying "noose" would be redundant.

[Westrosi]

You folks need to work on your reading comprehension. She could not know and she did not know the sword was made from a piece of Ice.

Now as to Brienne's word, sword, what meaning could that have on anybody at the hanging? Maybe she says R'hllor.

I agree, even Jamie, who knows a heck of a lot more about swords, was not sure it was even Valyrian steel when he first saw it. With its unique red/grey look, why would Cat think... ah yes, that's part of old hubby's sword, completely reforged.

[GSP]

'Sodomy!'

That's what Breanne screamed. I don't know why, or what relevance that has to anything. I just think that's what she yelled.

(Sorry, bit of an inside joke. I asked a buddy of mine what Bill Murray's character whispered at the end of the movie to that chick in that piece of shit film 'lost in translation' that was so fucking profound. He told me he was adamant that she whispered 'Sodomy'. I've chuckled at that ever since).

[Uzumaki_Kiba]

I assumed initially that she just said "Jaime," one last time.

On some of the theories I've seen put forth (I didn't read all fifteen pages) -

Oathbreaker: I kinda like the idea of her calling Stoneheart an Oathbreaker and Stone remembering a bit of the friendship they once had and the oaths that were sworn.

Stannis: I like it, in the same vain as "oathbreaker." But it doesn't seem like to phase Stoneheart much. I mean, neither does "oathbreaker," really, but Stannis is a bit more obscure.

Robert: It doesn't seem like the word "Robert" alone would get the BwB back on track. Plus, didn't Thoros indicate that the only ones who remained were folks who well and truly didn't care? They were all for the hangings and the looting, weren't they? Maybe an impassioned speech about what the Brotherhood once stood for... But just the word "Robert"? Prob'ly not.

Gendry: Only would make sense with the theory that Gendry came to save her, and she saw him and yelled his name as he jumped to her rescue. Which would be cool. I like Gendry.

Sword: Makes sense, I guess. But does it really ensure her life? Would they immediately think "Oh, she chose the sword. Better let her down"? Or would they just wonder what she was yelling about?

I'm not sure any of them feels exactly right to me, but I just hope whatever it was was life-saving. I like Brienne.

A friend of mine proposed that she saw some of the folks who may or may not be marching round that area (Lannister men, weren't they? Folks with Jaime?) and just yelled for help.

[Adanin]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I think "combat" is a possibility (as in trial by combat). Not sure if UnCat would respect that, but the rest of the BWB probably would, though...especially since they'd assume they could beat her easily, she being a helpless woman and all.