Mafia Game 73 (Mk. II)

[House Clegane]

I don't know. I have a major problem with the set up/balance, but that is for the spoilers.

I have changed my vote to Royce

It was my plan from the time I learned my role. There are 2 reasons to do it first thing: if I waited until I was under pressure, I might be doubted more; the second reason was to give us all time to discuss the vig target.

OK, thanks. The main reason I was asking was because of the threat of a killer guard. If I had been in your shoes I would have killed and claimed afterwards.

[House Baratheon]

I'm voting Royce today.

I think that would be the hammer vote now, though.

Let's wait for Tollett's reread first.

If you made a decision already, please don't wait. Tollet definitely won't be killed tonight, so you might read his reread tomorrow as well. And I want spoilers ASAP.

Royce, can't you just admit that you're evil if you're evil instead of torturing me more? :(

I am too evil to admit I am evil!

Just kidding.

[House Clegane]

OK, Royce.

[House Baratheon]

Do you remember my last plan? Look at whom will die, Lannister or Mallister, and decide because of this.

[House Dondarrion]

I've given up on rereading a particular player, it's a pain in the ass and you don't even have the context. I instead do selective rereads of game bits that seem relevant. Of course, it relies a lot on my memory.

I'm fine with rereading players because I generally look at the posts around it to get the context. And my memory is generally pretty good.

After I had such a hassle with Tollett/Royce, I started scrolling through and searching House Royce instead of going through his posts to find what I was looking for. It was easier that way unfortunately.

[House Dondarrion]

Do you remember my last plan? Look at whom will die, Lannister or Mallister, and decide because of this.

I'm going to laugh after this game if you turn out to be the symp and you're telling your master who to kill.

This game is doing my head in.

If Royce is innocent, I don't even know what to do. I know Lannister is innocent. Clegane has looked about as innocent as you can since day 2.

Mallister could be lying but it was a pretty bold move. And then there is Tollett with his early vote on Vance. Sigh.

[House Mooton]

OK, thanks. The main reason I was asking was because of the threat of a killer guard. If I had been in your shoes I would have killed and claimed afterwards.

I didn't think the evil's had a guard, or if they did, they would choose to kill instead of guard since there was only one FM left. Again, this is a topic for spoilers.

What point is there to a vig (the only known role for the innocents, btw) if the FM can so easily counter it. It nullified the role. (back to balance and a topic for spoilers)

[House Tully]

Alright, I have read and survived.

Inchfield: A Retrospective

by H. W. Tollett

Honestly I'm a bit stumped at how to come at this. Inch's posting history is too large for a decent chronological analysis, so I've decided to just answer Cleg's questions.

What Makes Inchfield Look Innocent?

*The big one is his vote for Vance.

*I'm actually also inclined to grant him that the Vance reaction which Royce finds so suspicious actually makes his guilt less likely. He had done come pretty decent distancing and it was an unnecessary addition by Vance. It's a small point because it was Vance doing it and who knows what he was thinking at that point. But I think it is valid.

What Doesn't Make Inchfield Look Innocent?

*Telling Vance not to hide his identity. We've already been over the majority of this but just to add the final relevant quote:

I've been thinking about this a lot and it's not real evidence but it has been bothering me.

Vance tried to hide himself by the capital letter thing. He admitted as much. Yet he was never killed. One of the reasons I didn't mind Vance yesterday was because he was trying to hide himself and most of the time, that's an innocent thing to do. But I would suspect the FM to kill him in fear that he might be rolled because why else would you hide yourself? They didn't. They chose Redfort instead. Feels wrong to me. Dayne was the obvious heal so no real threat there. So why not Vance? Because he was getting so much heat? I guess that could be it.

As I said, it's not evidence but it's making me lean toward a Vance lynch over a Connington one.

This is Inch's flip back onto Vance and it's not as strong as I thought it would be. He give Vance an out (he was getting heat so why would he be NKed) and acknoledges that it isn't evidence.

*Redfort's death. The problem with analysing NKs is that they are so... personal. Inch says he wouldn't have killed Redfort. Royce believes it would be absolutely the wrong kill. Were I in Inch's place on day one Redfort would have been my kill de jeur. So I honestly think it's WIFOM and has no meaning.

What Makes Inchfield Look Guilty?

*His vote for Vance. I think the vote itself speaks in favour of his innocence, but I think the circumstances leading up to it don't. He really had no choice but to look at Vance/Conn. Not only was everyone discussing it but Clegane asked him directly to give an opinion. He rereads both, finds signs of guilt, but also votes me and continues to push me throughout.

*His interactions with others. Especially Dayne. There is little question that Dayne concentrated a lot of effort on Inch, but Inch was quite agressive not just in defending himself, but in trying to make Dayne choose another target. At times he really seems to feel he's being persecuted, and I think this tends to be an FM mindset more than an innocent one. I know it isn't fun to have every post thrown back at you (believe me) but the reaction seems excessive.

For example:

Ok. So my case is accurate but because you find all of her suspicious behavior geniune, I'm a spinnster.

Here we go again. Back to making everything I do look like I'm guilty. This level of obsession is getting a bit ridiculous.

*I also find a lot of his characterisations of people inaccurate. This is especially true days one and two. I've said before but I often get the impression he's forcing the facts to match the case he wants to make. I'm probably a little biased in this because I found it most in numerous posts about me, but I've seen others mentioning the same thing. Kettleblack points out here, that he takes finds one incorrect fact in a post and so disregards everything else. His rereads from the start of day two (here).

Alright there is no glowing sign and concrete fact that points to his guilt. For me his actions look guilty and the points in his favour really don't weight heavily enough. Weighing this with my reread of Royce I really do feel like Inchfield is the best choice. My vote stays where it is.

ETA: Formatting

[House Mooton]

Do you remember my last plan? Look at whom will die, Lannister or Mallister, and decide because of this.

Or Clegane.

Since I have developed a slight attitude about the game, you'll most likely be stuck with me.

[House Baratheon]

If Royce is innocent, I don't even know what to do.

Did you consider confessing?

[House Clegane]

I didn't think the evil's had a guard, or if they did, they would choose to kill instead of guard since there was only one FM left. Again, this is a topic for spoilers.

What point is there to a vig (the only known role for the innocents, btw) if the FM can so easily counter it. It nullified the role. (back to balance and a topic for spoilers)

mentat hates role claims (or he used to hate them) so that may be an explanation ;)

[House Dondarrion]

Did you consider confessing?

To what?

[House Baratheon]

To what?

To be evil? Or to this being your worst ever game as innocent? Choose one.

[House Clegane]

Lannister, please make up your mind.

[House Dondarrion]

To be evil? Or to this being your worst ever game as innocent? Choose one.

I've had worse games as an innocent.

Just out of curiosity, who do you think is next likely to be guilty over me?

[House Tully]

Wow, things got exciting while I was typing.

[House Dondarrion]

*Redfort's death. The problem with analysing NKs is that they are so... personal. Inch says he wouldn't have killed Redfort. Royce believes it would be absolutely the wrong kill. Were I in Inch's place on day one Redfort would have been my kill de jeur. So I honestly think it's WIFOM and has no meaning.

I'm not going to argue anything because to be honest, your entire post is a matter of opinion. His vote looks like he's innocent yet it makes him look guilty because Vance/Connington were being talked about. Nothing really to talk about there.

However, this is one that I will talk about. WIFOM arguments rarely work. I would never base my kill on using a WIFOM argument later in the game. And I can't honestly believe that you would. It's not a strategy that works and I think you only do that when you're incredibly desperate at the end of the game to pass some suspicion on someone else. On night 1, you're not desperate and with 4 people voting you at the end of the day, it's clear that you should kill a strong antagonist instead of a moderate protagonist.

[House Baratheon]

Just out of curiosity, who do you think is next likely to be guilty over me?

It's either you or Tollett.

For now, I'd bet 70 to 30 it's you.

[House Dondarrion]

It's either you or Tollett.

For now, I'd bet 70 to 30 it's you.

Thought so :)

I'll let you think about that post for a minute then tell me it's the worst game I've ever played as an innocent.

[House Mooton]

Thought so :)

I'll let you think about that post for a minute then tell me it's the worst game I've ever played as an innocent.

I know it's not. :lol:

But it might be close for me.