Manfryd Lothston Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I think Loras is experiencing a character overhaul, like Jaime when he lost his hand (or the Hound, when he was burned by his brother before the story began). His despair at Renly's death was palpable - he actually attacked and killed his own men in a "blood rage" after learning of it, and afterwards was not the same "summer knight" (“When the sun has set, no candle can replace it"), with his thoughts endlessly revolving around the tragedy. To me it was obvious he wanted to lead the charge on Dragonstone to wreak revenge upon Stannis, and did so with complete disregard for his own safety and that of his men.Now that he's been wounded and disfigured, he's likely to turn into a disillusioned, vicious person like The Hound, Mandon Moore, or Ilyn Payne, with nothing in his life except revenge and killing. It would be an excellent example of how cruelty perpetuates itself during a war, and how the noble, gallant "knights of summer" are turned into the monstrous "knights of winter". I'd welcome the appearance of such a figure in the storyline, to fill in the vacuum left by the vanquished Cleganes and Moore.Or, he might pull a Jaime/Lancel and turn to serenity (though I believe that to be less probable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbits Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 There is no way that beautiful man was going to let himself be burned by oil.Do you love him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I think Loras is experiencing a character overhaul, like Jaime when he lost his hand (or the Hound, when he was burned by his brother before the story began). His despair at Renly's death was palpable - he actually attacked and killed his own men in a "blood rage" after learning of it, and afterwards was not the same "summer knight" (“When the sun has set, no candle can replace it"), with his thoughts endlessly revolving around the tragedy. To me it was obvious he wanted to lead the charge on Dragonstone to wreak revenge upon Stannis, and did so with complete disregard for his own safety and that of his men.Now that he's been wounded and disfigured, he's likely to turn into a disillusioned, vicious person like The Hound, Mandon Moore, or Ilyn Payne, with nothing in his life except revenge and killing. It would be an excellent example of how cruelty perpetuates itself during a war, and how the noble, gallant "knights of summer" are turned into the monstrous "knights of winter". I'd welcome the appearance of such a figure in the storyline, to fill in the vacuum left by the vanquished Cleganes and Moore.Or, he might pull a Jaime/Lancel and turn to serenity (though I believe that to be less probable).Hmmm. Interesting. And well put! You've almost persuaded me away from my theory. Almost but not quite. :) I'm still going with the whole thing being a clever ruse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Do you love him?:lmao: A jokster huh? Yes I guess I do love him. Wouldn't be the first time I had a crush on a gay man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I hope there is not already a thread on this but I believe that Ser Loras was not in fact injured at Dragonstone. I think there is a deep sub-plot going on here. Maybe the Tyrells are trying to ally with Stannis out of growing hatred of Lannisters. How convinient that he was burned by oil. All the better to trick people into thinking it's him when it isn't. Loras's main priority seemed to be his sister. Why would he so recklessly voulenteer to go off on some heroic mission like that? I don't believe he would. It was said that he turned what could have been a peaceful resoultion into a bloodbath. Of course he did. He needed to do that in order to successfully fake his injury. I think he and whoever is helping him, most likely the Queen of Thorns, arranged to fake this injury so he would be free to go off and do whatever to bring down the Lannisters. Thoughts?I think you're forgetting that Martin loves to disfigure beautiful people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I think you're forgetting that Martin loves to disfigure beautiful people.Im not forgetting that. I'm well aware. I stick to my theory despite Lord Matrtins love of disfigurement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I'm still going with the whole thing being a clever ruse.I can't believe that GRRM would wimp out of facing the darker parts of the human spirit like that. In a "nice" fantasy it would all be a clever ruse by his cunning but lovable grandmother, and gallant Ser Loras would turn up at the last minute to save his kind and noble sister from the machinations of the Evil Queen. However, we know that ASOIAF is not being written by Sansa. If there's one thing that has been established so far it is that acting like a character from a fairytale is a short route to unending woe. Oh well, I suspect we will find out for sure in a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I can't believe that GRRM would wimp out of facing the darker parts of the human spirit like that. In a "nice" fantasy it would all be a clever ruse by his cunning but lovable grandmother, and gallant Ser Loras would turn up at the last minute to save his kind and noble sister from the machinations of the Evil Queen. However, we know that ASOIAF is not being written by Sansa. If there's one thing that has been established so far it is that acting like a character from a fairytale is a short route to unending woe. Oh well, I suspect we will find out for sure in a couple of weeks.Yep we will. And I never said he would show up and be fine and everything would be happily ever after. I never said their plan would be successful. Maybe it fails and Loras dies anyway. Geez, don't be so closed minded <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Sand bastard of AZ Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 It wasn't really boiling oil. It was a waterhose. Ser Loras took the spray full on while running his hands through his hair and posing to ditsract the enemy while his soldiers stormed Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Geez, don't be so closed minded <_<I won't be annoyed if it turns out your way. I don't hate Ser Loras or anything. In fact, I will be happier, because I am not looking forward to reading about horrific burn wounds in the next book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 It wasn't really boiling oil. It was a waterhose. Ser Loras took the spray full on while running his hands through his hair and posing to ditsract the enemy while his soldiers stormed Dragonstone.Yes. I like this! Can you make a pic of that like the Karstark thing please? Lol:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So1ar Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I think you're forgetting that Martin loves to disfigure beautiful people.this is the reason i believe loras is horribly burned beyond all recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha—Not Yara! Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Along the same line of thought, I also have a pet theory that something disfiguring is going to happen to Dany. probably in the next book. Here's the rest of my ADWD theory: We saw a glimpse of a chapter where Tyrion talks about greyscale. I think that disease is going to break out in Meereen and Dany's going to get it.For Loras I feel pretty certain he is burnt and disfigured, but it'd be a nice twist for it to be a ruse instead, so I'm hoping this is the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clariana Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Or, he might pull a Jaime/Lancel and turn to serenity (though I believe that to be less probable).Jaime and Lancel are still works in progress. Neither of them have attained serenity yet. Jaime is in the painful throes of reassessing all his previous assumptions. Lancel has surrendered to fanaticism. Both are at an intermediate stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbiczer Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 One point I think nobody brought up so far. In the last Sansa chapter during the descent from the Eyrie Lady Miranda Royce tells Sansa that "the war goes on. Riverrun has yielded, but Dragonstone and Storm's End still hold out for Stannis." This is the first time we learn that Riverrun has given up. The Cersei chapter where we learn of Dragonstone's fall and Loras' injury comes before that. What can this mean:1. Lady Royce lies to Sansa. --- Unlikely, she has no motive.2. Lady Royce is misinformed. --- Possible, news travels at different speeds. Maybe they got a bird from Riverrun, and none from Dragonstone. Although Miranda Royce says that "we have had other birds" implying that the news about Dragonstone came by raven. (Thus it would not only be based upon the lack of news, but actual confirmation.)3. GRRM or his editors made a mistake. --- Unlikely. 4. Chapters are not always in true chronological order. --- This is certainly true. But unless GRRM moved some chapters around just for the fun of it to completely confuse us, Dragonstone's (reported) fall must have taken place before Riverrun's surrender. 5. Dragonstone is indeed still holding out. --- BIG CONSPIRACY! As far as I know, it was only Aurane Waters who brought new about Dragonstone to Cersei and King's Landing. Nobody else returned from Dragonstone yet. Aurane had obviously a ship, and that ship had a crew, but there is precedence in GRRM's writing for a big group of people to hold a secret: the Bolton men knew about the planned attack on Robb's men, but nobody told Robb. So it could very well be that Waters told a lie, and his crew kept the secret. The Tyrells would be interested in spreading the news of Dragonstone's fall, since only this would allow the Redwyne fleet to return home to fight against the Ironborn. Based on all of this my gut feeling is that Dragonstone hasn't fallen yet. And since part of Waters' story is fake, likely the part about Loras is also not true. We will know in 10 days (plus the time it takes to get to the end of the book). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 2. Lady Royce is misinformed. --- Possible, news travels at different speeds. Maybe they got a bird from Riverrun, and none from Dragonstone. Ravens as a news source is never going to be completely reliable. Birds can die or be blown off course. They are not telegrams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Amazing to me that only one person in this thread (that I noted while skimming) listed the obvious reason for the Tyrells to fake a story of Loras's maiming: to prevent his being ordered to defend Cersei in a trial by combat. Yes, Margaery is in real peril, but the Tyrells had no real means to avoid that, and so they controlled events as best they could. Asserting that there is a Tyrell conspiracy in play is not nearly the same thing as asserting that the Tyrells are in complete control of events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Amazing to me that only one person in this thread (that I noted while skimming) listed the obvious reason for the Tyrells to fake a story of Loras's maiming: to prevent his being ordered to defend Cersei in a trial by combat. A bout of fever or a broken arm could be easily faked, prevent Loras fighting for Cersei, and be easily recovered from when needed. No need for the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 A bout of fever or a broken arm could be easily faked, prevent Loras fighting for Cersei, and be easily recovered from when needed. No need for the extreme.All of which would give Cersei a plausible reason to delay for his recovery. Maiming him beyond recovery, possibly as a precursor to faking his death, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 All of which would give Cersei a plausible reason to delay for his recovery. Maiming him beyond recovery, possibly as a precursor to faking his death, not so much.Why would they want to fake his death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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