First Read of AFFC

[JD44Irish]

Hello All,

So I'm in the high 200s of the paperback copy of AFFC. I just finished Sam's chapter on the boat.

Here are my thoughts so far, I would love to hear the others. Please note minor spoilers up through the Sam chapter will be included, I saw minor because nothing major has happened yet. This is more of a running stream of conscious so feel free to take the conversation where ever you like.

Iron Islands - So far this is the most boring story line IMHO. I don't love the Damphair and his drowned men. He's very droll. But I think the Kingsmoot has a lot of potential. I am hoping for a lot of political maneuvering and some good killings. I do like Asha, I loved the way she messed with Theon in ACOK. She sounds pretty sexy actually. In fact, AFFC definitely has the most attractive women in it so far - Martin seems to be paying more attention to them in this book both in terms of women and power and women and sexuality. I fully expect the two to overlap and intersect. I enjoy her ambition and the scene with her uncle gave some good background on the Iron Islands... but I think we'll need more for the Kingsmoot to be really interesting.

Dorne - This is another new line that has a lot of potential. I like the characters a lot more than those in the Iron Islands. Two warriors Hotah and The Soiled Knight. Two very different knights I suspect. I loved Oakheart's chapter with the Dornish Princess. GRRM didn't tell us right away who she was, but she was great. I love her ambition and use of her feminine wiles to get Ary's to do her bidding. I have a very bad feeling it will end poorly for him and probably them as well. Men who think with their dicks don't get too far in life.

I hope the Sand Snakes get released. They're no fun in the tower and the Prince of Dorne is pretty lame. I fully expect some more independent minded person to take the throne. I have to wonder if there is master puppeteer behind the scenes here somewhere. Adrianna could be pulling all the strings, but I'm not sure yet.

King's Landing - Ah, the Cersei and Jamie chapters. I have to confess, with the exception of Tyrion, I am a Lannister hater. I wish them nothing but the worst. So when GRRM gives us facts that tend to redeem Jamie, I don't take it well. But I still enjoy those chapters. He seems so lost to me, like the world changed and he has no idea how to keep up. There is an old axiom about men going crazy when they lose their fathers. I expect Jamie will be no exception.

I love Cersei's new Myrish friend, Lady Merriweather I want to say her name is. She's definitely the hottest woman in the book and I think she's about to play Cersei like a flute. She was very good at easing her way into Cersei's good graces. Cersei is no Tywin and I just get the sense things are going to start falling apart at the seams and quickly. Kevan Lannister denying the position of Hand is just the start. I wonder if the burning of the tower of the hand is a metaphor for the fact that he Hand will never be powerful again.

Lots more to go here, War is about to be waged at Storm's End and Dragonstone.

Brienne/Sansa/Arya - Not a lot to go on here yet. I know realize why this board is bonkers for Podrick Payne. He's a nice guy and I enjoy him w/ Brienne, it makes the chapters much more readable. Without him they were as brooding as the character herself.

It took me FOREVER to realize that Lord Randly Tarly in Duskendale is Samwell's father. That is the case, right? I'm not sure why he would have wanted to leave Horn Hill for Duskendale but he seems a competent if not stern lord. He needs to get the raping out of his men's systems.

I'm finally starting to like Sansa. I think she's learning and I hope she's the one to turn the tides on Baelish. He clearly needs her for something (or he just wants to bang her now that her mom is gone). Either way, she is safe for a while and seems so innocent, LF won't kill her unless she does something obvious to give a way a betrayal. I like the Royce's so far, but the skeptical ones are coming. We will see if LF is as cunning as he appears.

Arya - I'm very curious to see more of Braavos. I always hope for the best for Arya, but she is struggling. She must have a part to play yet - but I can't seem to figure out what. She's heading towards the Faceless Men I'd have to think... but will they train an 11 year old girl to be an assassin? Will she finish the training? If so, how far into the future will these books go?

Samwell/The Wall - I'm not sure I loved Lord Snow's decision to send Sam to become a Maester. Seems wasteful when the others could come at any time and Sam's knowledge could come in handy. I suspect the mission was more about Gilly and the baby. Now I must have missed something at the end of ASOS b/c I did not get the whole baby switch thing. So the Red Priestess wanted to kill Mance Raydar's baby too? Another kings blood sacrifice? Why this time? Wasn't Edric Storm enough? And why does John want to save that baby so much and why is Gilly's so expendable?

Finally, its clear I need to read the Dunk and Eggs stories. They must flesh out more of the history. And since we now know history is cyclical.... they will be more relevant than ever.

So thats it for now. Have a field day, I look forward to hearing all your thoughts.

[Achilleas]

Well JD44Irish, I am glad you started this conversation! I have just (two weeks ago) finished AFFC and counting the days until ADWD will reach my postbox! I will be quite careful in order not to reveal what comes after the first 200 pages, I just wanted to write my thoughts on the things you mentioned because AFFC had absorbed me for all this time and it's still in my head!

I have to say that I love this book, for the reason that it requires a slow and careful reading and will reward you. It should not be breathtaking like ASOS and it has a deep focus on characters and really beautiful descriptions of places of Westeros (and Braavos) that we have never "been" before. Now I feel like I have actually "walked" there and got to know more landscapes and people, mainly thanks to Brienne's quest, Jamie and the Dornish POVs.

Well, Doran Martell does not look so lame to me. He has taken the role of the quiet and thinking person, in a place where everyone is hot-tempered someone has to keep the balance. He talks and acts very carefully, he swallows his anger and pain (physically and sentimentally) and makes his plans. Arianne is more like her cousins and she is bitter with her father. But Doran actually rules, don't underestimate him... I liked Areo Hotah very much, the trustworthy soldier, as well as Arys Oakheart, with his desperate dilemma between love and honor. This mix of characters made all the dornish chapters very enjoyable and intriguing!

I agree with you about the Iron Islands, but in this book we finally get to know what kind of people the Ironborn are. The Greyjoy brothers are so different from each other, they all have their stories and backgrounds, and the Reader (Rodrik Harlaw) is the only "noble" version of an Ironborn, which makes him very interesting. I was a bit disappointed with Asha, her character has not yet "unfolded", she comes and goes. Anyway, be prepared for the Kingsmoot!

Lord Randyll Tarly is Sam's father, of course. A stern and just lord and a warrior. One of the "minor" characters that hold much power and respect (or fear) from others, even though he is not well-liked. He has not left his seat (Horn Hill) for Duskendale, but he is a Tyrell bannerman and followed Renly first and the Lannisters after Renly's death, just like Mace Tyrell. He is temporarily in Duskendale with a mission to restore the place and hunt down the outlaws, the castle still "belongs" to lord Mooton. Don't you remember the old Sam chapters (I think it was the first chapters of ACOK) when Sam says that he took the black because his father despised him? Randyll Tarly wanted a warrior son and Sam was soft and weak...

Sam is becoming better and better in my opinion. Jon Snow's decision to swap the babies was very harsh for Gilly, but Jon had to protect the baby, as well as Maester Aemon from being thrown into the fire. The red woman is obsessed with feeding the fire with kings' blood and Mance Rayder is "the king beyond the wall". I have some expectations from this swapping story and the two babies, I hope it will show more on the coming book(s). Unfortunately there are no Sam chapters in ADWD, but I sense that he will play an even bigger role towards the end. And he is one of the few persons who know that Bran is alive. Oh, and Edric Storm did not fall into the fire, Davos Seaworth sent him away just before... Check ASOS again :-)

Now I want to start writing also about Brienne, Arya, Sansa and so on, but I am afraid that I cannot do that without spoiling what comes next. I just wanted to focus on characters that drew my attention and these 3 characters are well known and analyzed. Nevertheless, I enjoyed Sansa's chapters, especially her conversations with Littlefinger.

And finally about the Lannister twins. For me these are the main roles of this book. And I like Jaime Lannister a lot, from ASOS and afterwards. I hope you will agree with me after you finish this book. Losing his hand made him lose his vanity. And his reputation follows him and pays him back even when he wants to do the right thing. The nice thing with GRRM is that his characters are not black or white, but different shades of gray. This is mentioned by many other readers too and I agree. OK, I think that one person that I really hated was Joffrey, but even he had some excuses. He tried to look like a (so thought) father who didn't give a shit about him and was only interested in drinking and bedding whores.

Robert Baratheon has left his mark on Cersei also. She remembers him quite often, always with contempt. But her ambition to be a better ruler than him and to prove that she is a female Tywin Lannister has become an obsession and affects her decisions. Scheming, plotting, losing or denying the support of the family (Jaime, Kevan), I think that this book was dedicated to her.

Well, that's definitely not all I would like to write, but I have to stop here I guess... I really enjoy this topic and hope to read more from others too!

[JD44Irish]

Thanks for the reply! I'm a little further on now -

Cersei has just sent the youngest Kettleblack to seduce Tommen's lady and plans to send him to the Wall as "punishment" with 100 men to kill Lord Snow.

I also love the descriptions of Braavos and some of the other places we haven't seen yet.

Cersei is tapped. She thinks she's her father but I get the sense there is treachery all around her. I love the contrast between Cersei's chapters here and Tyrions in ACOK. Tyrion seemed to know everything that was going on in King's Landing... he put his men in place and got shit done. Cersei seems to be being set up to fail. And I still love Lady Merryweather. I can't tell what she's up to yet, but I don't trust her at all.

As for Jamie, I can tell that GRRM wants us to change our opinions of Jamie and realize that we only got one viewpoint of him... the Stark viewpoint. Even Tyrion's wasn't all that flattering considering all the brotherly love. But I am very resistant to it. I just can't forgive Jamie for throwing Bran out of the tower at Winterfell. I can let the Kingslaying go after all we learned about the Mad King's plans to burn King's Landing. But I really don't want to like Jamie Lannister and so far have not seen enough reason to forgive him. If he does something really big, say help re-unite the Stark kids, I'll forgive him. But its kind of like Borromir in Lord of the Rings. I'm not going to like him until he redeems himself.

I hope to read a ton over the holiday weekend. I'll be back after that with more insight.

Where is everyone else who should be reading AFFC? I have to imagine I'm not the only one!

[Exmortus]

Thanks for the reply! I'm a little further on now -

Cersei has just sent the youngest Kettleblack to seduce Tommen's lady and plans to send him to the Wall as "punishment" with 100 men to kill Lord Snow.

I also love the descriptions of Braavos and some of the other places we haven't seen yet.

Cersei is tapped. She thinks she's her father but I get the sense there is treachery all around her. I love the contrast between Cersei's chapters here and Tyrions in ACOK. Tyrion seemed to know everything that was going on in King's Landing... he put his men in place and got shit done. Cersei seems to be being set up to fail. And I still love Lady Merryweather. I can't tell what she's up to yet, but I don't trust her at all.

As for Jamie, I can tell that GRRM wants us to change our opinions of Jamie and realize that we only got one viewpoint of him... the Stark viewpoint. Even Tyrion's wasn't all that flattering considering all the brotherly love. But I am very resistant to it. I just can't forgive Jamie for throwing Bran out of the tower at Winterfell. I can let the Kingslaying go after all we learned about the Mad King's plans to burn King's Landing. But I really don't want to like Jamie Lannister and so far have not seen enough reason to forgive him. If he does something really big, say help re-unite the Stark kids, I'll forgive him. But its kind of like Borromir in Lord of the Rings. I'm not going to like him until he redeems himself.

I hope to read a ton over the holiday weekend. I'll be back after that with more insight.

Where is everyone else who should be reading AFFC? I have to imagine I'm not the only one!

So far I'm a little past halfway through.

I can clearly see that Cersei is setting herself up for failure. I'm not sure if you've gotten too this point but in one of Jaime's chapters he compares Cersei to Aerys Targaryen.

I understand why you're a little skeptical about Jaime too, I was too. But from what I've read he's gonna grow on you. without spoiling anything he does kinda do something big, at least for Jaime, that will make you say "damn I hated you not too long ago". Whether or not it sways you is another story but it definately will lessen your dislike of him. Unless you've already gotten to that part, have you gotten that little interaction with Brienne? I don't remember where it was in the book but I'm pretty sure it was earlier on.

[White Ravens]

With A Dance With Dragons hitting the stores so soon I decided to read A Feast for Crows again and I'm really enjoying it! I would echo the sentiment that Doran Martell does not look lame to me. I think he is someone who uses strategy and intrigue to further his goals. He may even rival Littlefinger in that regard by the time this all plays out. He has soldiers and power at his disposal as well, so future books might show him playing those cards as well.

[LordTabelz]

I'm just finished with the 2nd Arya chapter.

I really like the Arya, Sansa and Jaime chapters, but god Brienne is so boring. I couldn't care less about her search for Sansa. She doesn't really strike me as a character I want to know more about but I liked her story about Renly's men trying to seduce her. I live for character development in ASoIaF and to me, Cersei's character development is really one dimensional. Like I know she's a paranoid bitch. But it was cool to hear about her prophecy. A lot of people loathe Cersei's chapters, but I really don't.

[TheEvilKing]

Someone remind me - does Cersei actually send those men to kill Jon Snow? I totally forgot about that. If it was the same Kettleblack that ended up hanging out with the High Septon, then I guess not.

[zmflavius]

Someone remind me - does Cersei actually send those men to kill Jon Snow? I totally forgot about that. If it was the same Kettleblack that ended up hanging out with the High Septon, then I guess not.

Possibly. If they were carrying on with the Kettleblack plan, then no, but I think Qyburn said he would take care of it, and that would mean that it was carried out anyhow, without Kettleblack.

[Warlock Vetolgar]

So far I'm a little past halfway through.

I can clearly see that Cersei is setting herself up for failure. I'm not sure if you've gotten too this point but in one of Jaime's chapters he compares Cersei to Aerys Targaryen.

Can you please tell me which Jaime chapter is that? I don't think I remember him saying that and I want to read it. I would ask for the page number, but I'm not sure if we have the same edition. (Just in case, I have the big. red-colored Bantam trade paperback with the crow heraldry on the front cover)

I understand why you're a little skeptical about Jaime too, I was too. But from what I've read he's gonna grow on you. without spoiling anything he does kinda do something big, at least for Jaime, that will make you say "damn I hated you not too long ago". Whether or not it sways you is another story but it definately will lessen your dislike of him. Unless you've already gotten to that part, have you gotten that little interaction with Brienne? I don't remember where it was in the book but I'm pretty sure it was earlier on.

[rulandor]

I am in my first reading of AFFC and have just finished a Brienne chapter, ending on page 536.

I like the Brienne chapters very much; I think her character is well thought-out, and her chapters give a vivid impression of the countryside in the Eastern Riverlands and Crackclaw Point. She seems still a bit naive and in over her head, but Poderick Payne is cool, somehow reminiscent of Gendry, whose openness and exasperation of Arya and Edric Dayne being highborn always was a lot of fun to read.

And Septon Meribald is simply fantastic. As amusing as his dry comments are, he gives for the first time in all the novels a real and vivid impression of what the crows are feasting on - human beings. His tale of the "broken men" is heartbreaking, and at this point you want to slap all the highborn people in the face, even those on the (more or less) "good" side.

Not only the Tywins and Maces and Marbrands, the Robbs and Oberyns and Greatjons as well should walk barefoot for penance, not only this deeply humane priest.

[Exmortus]

Warlock Vetolgar

It's the chapter where they have Tommen and Margerie's wedding and they burn the tower of the hand. It's actually a Cersei chapter. Page 249 Cersei Is saying something like let the whole city see the flames, it will be a lessen to our enemies and such and Jaime rplies that she sounds like Aerys.

I went back and found the pages and we do have the same edition. Again on page 330 it goes into more detail about how that night reminded him of how the Targaryens were obsessed with fire and such and how he saw a bit of that in her the night they burned the tower of the hand.

[Warlock Vetolgar]

Warlock Vetolgar

It's the chapter where they have Tommen and Margerie's wedding and they burn the tower of the hand. It's actually a Cersei chapter. Page 249 Cersei Is saying something like let the whole city see the flames, it will be a lessen to our enemies and such and Jaime rplies that she sounds like Aerys.

I went back and found the pages and we do have the same edition. Again on page 330 it goes into more detail about how that night reminded him of how the Targaryens were obsessed with fire and such and how he saw a bit of that in her the night they burned the tower of the hand.

Thanks for going beyond the call of duty friend :) :) Yeah, I knew I couldn't have missed it. I'll keep the page number at hand.

[John W]

Just finished AFFC last night. I can't wait for ADWD. I'm also concerned about how long the wait is going to be for the next one.

[Achilleas]

Just finished AFFC last night. I can't wait for ADWD. I'm also concerned about how long the wait is going to be for the next one.

I can't wait either, but I guess that we can survive for one more week! To be honest, I am also concerned about how long we will have to wait until the "Winds of Winter". I hope that the HBO series will go on strong (and even better, since there have been notable weaknesses...) and if each season is a book, the sixth book will have to be published by 2015, so that there will be time until the sixth season in 2016! Just an optimistic guess...

[Warlock Vetolgar]

I can only hope that George stands on terra firma concerning the last two books. The way I understand it, AFFC and ADWD got bogged down because of constant revamps in the writing. With any luck, that won't happen with the last two installments.

[JD44Irish]

Love all the input folks, thanks so much.

So regarding Doran Martell if he is responsible for this (and I think he is):

The ambush by Areo Hotah along the Green River was amazing. I could tell from the way Myrcella was acting there was no way she could or would become queen. Still, I thought this plot line had a bit longer to go. I wonder if this is the end of it or if there will be a great relevance to it soon enough. Oakheart is a fool, unless he was going to be tortured, in which case this was the better way to go. I guess he wasn't nearly the knight I thought he was. I need to stop giving the King's Guard so much credit!

Then I will change my mind on him completely. That was the last I've heard of that story line but I can't wait for the fallout. I should get there soon I think. This story seems like it could be largely wrapped up soon depending on whether Myrcella stays in Dorne or not.

As for the Iron Men, its the KingsMoot as told by Damphair and Victarion. Not a lot seems to be resolved yet, although:

When the chapter ends w/ everyone chanting EUREON EUREON, am I supposed to think he's been acclaimed king? Or just that he's a very strong contender? That didn't give me any sense of finality... nor would I expect it to anyway knowing the Iron Born.

I am also changing my mind on the Damphair. I didn't like a lot of the religious characters at first, Millisandre most of all... but Damphair is growing on me. Whats with the drinking of seawater though? Has anyone else noticed that these people must be perpetually dehydrated? All they drink is ale and wine and occasionally water. At any rate, I'll be fascinated to see where this goes. I can't see the Iron Born story being concluded by the end of this book though.

Cersei. Her chapters are maddening. I can never tell if the information she gets is legitimate or not. I almost don't want to classify these things as "spoilers" since they could very well be false. but

Davos Seaworth is dead??? WTF? This can't be true, what an inglorious and abrupt end to his story. Yes, yes, I know... its GRRM. Although it could play in nicely with prior themes as Davos wondered why he had been spared, what role did he have left to play? Well he convinced Stannis to go north and saved Edric Storm. One of those has already proven important and one might yet still. Will there be any more info on this coming?

Despite being the bearer of the bad news above, Quyburn is the man, I love his character. He's as duplicitous and devious as Pycelle, Little Finger and Varys could ever have been. In fact, with those three all gone, Quyburn must have more knowledge than anyone else in Kings Landing. He just reeks of treachery and deceit. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if Quyburn was making stuff up to keep the Queen happy and was really spending his time in the brothels. I can't wait to see what he's up to.

Here's a question on Cersei, the whole Maggy the Frog thing... was the prophecy she told us about the only one? Small spoiler here... I mean who cares if some witch told her that she won't marry Rhaegar Targaryn... So I am assuming there is more to it that I haven't gotten to yet.

Oh, where to go next. Well, in keeping with the theme of characters I've come around on. Lets discuss Brienne. I don't think there are too many spoilers here... newsflash "SHE HASN'T FOUND THE STARKS YET." But she's still trying awful hard. I loved the scene on the end of Crackclaw Point at the ruined castle. Now we get to see just how badass she really is. She and Podrick make quite the pair in battle, even if she is 99% of the force. I'm glad she didn't flinch here. I get the sense the rest of her trip will be equally adventuresome but unfulfilling. Maybe she'll get some clues, but I'd be dollar to donuts she doesn't find any Starks in this book. Not Arya or Sansa anyway.

Speaking of finding Starks - Martin stop messing with us. I don't think this is a spoiler at all as we all know Arya is in Braavos and Samwell is on his way there. But did Martin have to make them bump into each other over there? Of course Samwell would never recognize Arya. But he has now seen two Stark children that most assume are either dead or marrying Ramsay Bolton. He's being set up for something really big I think.

Oh and Gilly needs to go... she's really really obnoxious.

Finally Alayne and Little Finger. I am loving this story line so far. I know Baelish is up to something, but I can't figure it out yet. What does he want? He can never be a king... he's not royal blood. Or could he? I suppose he could try if he married Sansa Stark and became husband to the Queen of Winterfell. Then if Robert dies, Petyr could also claim the Vale as his. I know there is another heir somewhere out there, but if he does well with his year and gets rid of the heir, Petyr could be Lord of the Vale. Harrenhall has been given to him and he was given the title of Lord of the Riverlands. Lord of two kingdoms and husband to the queen of a third is a nice start. Not to mention, who knows what arrangements he made with the Tyrells when he went to entreat on behalf of the Lannisters. Lots to think about.

Oh, and my favorite part of the book so far (maybe apart from Brienne kicking ass) is Baelish's dealings with the Lords of the Vale. Simply Brilliant... like Sansa, I think he must use some kind of magic spell sometimes.

Just realized I forgot Arya.... nothing really big to comment on there yet...

I can't wait to finish, I've got about 400 pages to go in my copy.

As a random aside, I'm sure there's another board for this kind of stuff, but I just saw they cast Margery Tyrell.. its the woman who played Ann Bolynn in the Tudors. I wonder if they will embellish her role on the show as I think she's only been a minor character so far.

[JD44Irish]

And Septon Meribald is simply fantastic. As amusing as his dry comments are, he gives for the first time in all the novels a real and vivid impression of what the crows are feasting on - human beings. His tale of the "broken men" is heartbreaking, and at this point you want to slap all the highborn people in the face, even those on the (more or less) "good" side.

Not only the Tywins and Maces and Marbrands, the Robbs and Oberyns and Greatjons as well should walk barefoot for penance, not only this deeply humane priest.

I also loved the little speech about "broken men" it really brought home what this war has done/is doing to the country side.

[Dunnii]

As for Jamie, I can tell that GRRM wants us to change our opinions of Jamie and realize that we only got one viewpoint of him... the Stark viewpoint. Even Tyrion's wasn't all that flattering considering all the brotherly love. But I am very resistant to it. I just can't forgive Jamie for throwing Bran out of the tower at Winterfell. I can let the Kingslaying go after all we learned about the Mad King's plans to burn King's Landing. But I really don't want to like Jamie Lannister and so far have not seen enough reason to forgive him. If he does something really big, say help re-unite the Stark kids, I'll forgive him. But its kind of like Borromir in Lord of the Rings. I'm not going to like him until he redeems himself.

I started AFoC two days ago, after reading Storm of Swords and Clash of Kings back to back non-stop, lol. My house is a mess!

Anyway, I wanted to jump in on this discussion of Jaime. I'm really bothered by this, too. I admire what Martin is doing, I think, in that he wants to show us how Jaime is not some one-dimensional character. But he is obsessed with his sister sexually for the longest time -- sorry, but that is CREEPY! -- and he throws a child out a tower. I'm with you, I resist any redemption for him.

You mention Boromir -- lol, my favorite character in the film! (Funny, Sean Bean was why I got interested in this series in the first place.) I love his redemption! I've often wondered if Boromir was Martin's inspiration behind Jaime. Is he setting Jaime up for his story to end just like Boromir's? I think he is.

But, Boromir's crime was merely trying to take the ring for his people. It is not much of a leap to embrace him. Jaime's crimes are so much worse. I wonder if I will be able to care about him when his end/redemption comes?

(On a side note, when Boromir died in the film, I nearly hyperventilated, I was crying so hard. In the book... it didn't have the same impact.)

BUT... I have to say, the whole "Kingslayer" part of his story is curious and has always bothered me. He is reviled for stopping a mad king who was burning people alive. Ned, of all people, even dislikes him for it. It was his father and brother! If Jaime's motivation was to put his father on the throne, then what he did was wrong. Family was important to him. Is that why he did it?

But I've always assumed it was because he wanted the madness to stop. He stopped being a Knight and became a human being. It should be the one thing he did that everyone should admire. "Burn them all..." who wouldn't kill someone who wanted to do such a terrible thing?

[Warlock Vetolgar]

BUT... I have to say, the whole "Kingslayer" part of his story is curious and has always bothered me. He is reviled for stopping a mad king who was burning people alive. Ned, of all people, even dislikes him for it. It was his father and brother! If Jaime's motivation was to put his father on the throne, then what he did was wrong. Family was important to him. Is that why he did it?

But I've always assumed it was because he wanted the madness to stop. He stopped being a Knight and became a human being. It should be the one thing he did that everyone should admire. "Burn them all..." who wouldn't kill someone who wanted to do such a terrible thing?

I don't think he's reviled for killing a murderous king, but for breaking his sacred (I presume divine, too) oath by killing his king. And I think only Jaime knows about Aerys' plot to set King's Landing on fire. And of course, being the Kingslayer, any attempt to justify his regicide will be construed as a fabrication to exonerate himself.

[MessageForYouSir]

I have about 300 pages left in AFFC...my sentiments for Cersei echo most of yours, I just CANNOT WAIT for her downfall. This foolish path she takes in her quest to be treated as a powerful man would be treated only makes me want bad things to happen to her...immediately.

Most POVs give you a particular insight into the thought process behind the actions of characters, shedding some sort of light on otherwise murky decisions. Cersei, however, is as one-dimensional a character as HODOR. GRRM is definitely making a statement of sorts by displaying this paranoid, power-hungry, vindictive woman through the first three books, and then showing her side of the story, where she is...a paranoid, power-hungry, vindictive woman.

I thoroughly enjoyed Tyrion's constant trumping of her schemes in ACOK, and throughout AFFC it has become apparent that even with no one around to stop her plans, she is setting herself up to get in her own way.

In her own words (at least on the show), in the game of thrones you win or you die...and she's not very good at this game...