[BOOK SPOILERS] How can they handle seasons 4 and 5, if it gets there?

[Rand]

The most popular option I've been seeing proposed is to combine and intermix AFFC and ADWD, then split them into two seasons (likely Seasons 4-5). However, a potential problem with that is the lack of material for some storylines. Take a character like Sansa, for example. She has less than a handful of chapters where nothing much at all happens. Now, take that threadbare plot and stretch it out over 20 episodes and 2 years. Or look at Brienne, and try to stretch her wanderings over two seasons. A little more happens in Kings Landing...but even there a certain funeral would drag on throughout most of Season Four.

Granted, not all the AFFC characters will be in every episode of both proposed seasons. And maybe there will be enough juicy material in ADWD to fill in some of the gaps...

Determining the split between the two seasons is also tricky. There aren't many mid-book cliffhangers in AFFC (really only the Iron Islands and Dorne storylines have some sort of mid-book climax). Again, maybe some ADWD material will be able to swoop in and save the day. (Or invented filler characters...The Adventures of Ros!) Otherwise, Season Four is just going to slowly fizzle out...

I don't know how feasible it is for HBO to do something like this but I wonder if they couldn't remove some of the necessary plotlines out of the regular seasonal runs and into their own mini-series.

If you take A Feast for Crows for example, as a standalone book all the plot lines are too disconnected and not consistent enough to film it like they did season 1. In my opinion the best way to tackle it, again from a standalone perspective, is focus each episode on an entire character. So you'd get 1 episode for the Iron Islands, 1 for Dorne, 1 for Sansa, 1 for Arya, 2 for Briene, and 4 for Jaime/Cersei, the only two that are actually connected.

The problem is we don't know (soon!) exactly how everything will tie in with ADwD, so continuing on there will probably break the above model. So what if you simply extracted a few of the 'sidequests' from books 4 and 5 and released them as separate 1-2 hour bonus episodes? Focusing on only the supporting actors, and with no real big battles, the budgets to film these shouldn't be too high. You can release them in the in-between seasons, and this lets you tighten up season 4 and 5 and focus on the star attractions. Additionally, if you remove that content, you could probably transfer some of the Storm of Swords overlap into season 4, taking care of that 'the book is too big!' problem.

[j52y]

Which I think would be a mistake since TV shows tend to be as much, if not more, character-focused than plot-focused.

It'll still be focusing on Cersei, Jon, Tyrion, Jaime, Dany, etc. And I feel as though Arya and Sansa's storylines could pretty easily be fleshed out more.

I mean, there's the classic example of season 4 of The Wire, where the series's main character was only in four episodes, and the season focused on 4 kids that had just been introduced. And it's the best season of the series. Lost would also have major characters have only little bit to do in some seasons, but more in others.

[j52y]

But if you do this, you start running into the problems that caused GRRM such a headache these past 10+ years. Either the character storylines get out of sync, or nothing happens to certain characters for a looong time. So, for example, above you delay Jon's ASOS finale until the end of S4. That ends up compressing the storylines of Sam, Stannis, Melisandre, etc. Meanwhile, Brienne ends her arc in S4, and is literally left hanging for all S5....

Well, Theon is theoretically going to be left hanging (nice pun, by the way) for season 3 (though, I wouldn't be surprised if they give him something to do during season 3). The same will go with Brienne. Assuming she survived, they'll just have to cook up some stuff for her to do with Stoneheart. It's very possible that the timing of whatever Brienne has to do means that her hanging has to wait, the solution is to have her leave later in the series that she did in the book, and her season 4 cliffhanger can be her fighting the Brave Companions in the ruined castle.

I don't see the problem with delaying Jon's chapters. I have yet to read A Dance with Dragons, but if anything, delaying Jon will spread out Sam and Stannis's story. I think Sam's journey to Old Town should be in season 5, and there's just enough for his story to cover season 5. And Stannis would arrive at the Wall in the middle of season 4. I guess I don't see how they'd be compressed.

[mr. peasant]

It'll still be focusing on Cersei, Jon, Tyrion, Jaime, Dany, etc. And I feel as though Arya and Sansa's storylines could pretty easily be fleshed out more.

I mean, there's the classic example of season 4 of The Wire, where the series's main character was only in four episodes, and the season focused on 4 kids that had just been introduced. And it's the best season of the series. Lost would also have major characters have only little bit to do in some seasons, but more in others.

However, The Wire failed to garner a large audience despite the near universal critical acclaim, safe genre (police/crime shows tend to draw in big numbers) and strong storylines. While they managed to get by with the mediocre numbers (undoubtedly in no small part to it regularly receiving award nominations), the much more expensive Game of Thrones probably can't. Likewise, with Lost, those seasons where the main cast did less tended to be less liked, as were the minor characters (relative to the main ones).

[mr. peasant]

Well, Theon is theoretically going to be left hanging (nice pun, by the way) for season 3 (though, I wouldn't be surprised if they give him something to do during season 3). The same will go with Brienne. Assuming she survived, they'll just have to cook up some stuff for her to do with Stoneheart. It's very possible that the timing of whatever Brienne has to do means that her hanging has to wait, the solution is to have her leave later in the series that she did in the book, and her season 4 cliffhanger can be her fighting the Brave Companions in the ruined castle.

Actually, how important is it to even shoow Brienne's travels? She can be charged to search for Sansa, off she goes and it be the end of that until she becomes involved in the central plot again (think Beric); saving the reveal of undead Catelyn for when another character first meets her.

[mpbarnes]

But if you do this, you start running into the problems that caused GRRM such a headache these past 10+ years. Either the character storylines get out of sync, or nothing happens to certain characters for a looong time. So, for example, above you delay Jon's ASOS finale until the end of S4. That ends up compressing the storylines of Sam, Stannis, Melisandre, etc. Meanwhile, Brienne ends her arc in S4, and is literally left hanging for all S5....

Remember folks, this is TV. It's highly likely that the series will deviate more as the season go by but do so to retain storylines, narratives and character arcs. The first season already included some elements of the second and third books. It's HIGHLY likely that Season 2 will include more than a bit of the Third book in order to keep the multiple storylines.

There's not enough of Daenerys in Clash Of Kings for a full season, I'm hoping they include the best parts of her story up to her emancipation of the Unsullied for Season 2, which would make an awesome finale. They can spend Season 3 with the rest of her story from Storm of Swords, drawing out a bit more or even adding some bits from Dance With Dragons (which I haven't read just yet). Same goes for Jon's story and what's going on at the wall. We'll likely get Sam the Slayer and a good bit of Jon with Ygritte in Season 2, she should be cast before the end of the summer.

Season 3 would take the bulk of Storm of Swords, there's enough action, intrigue and drama in that book for 3 seasons on it's own, but all the stories could be wrapped up in a season if a couple story lines are put in Season 2. I don't see the Red Wedding as a season finale, it's less shocking if it comes at the end. It should feel like it comes out of the blue, as it does in the book, even more so than Ned's beheading. I think it will be near the middle of season three, no later than episode 5, which would be a truly epic season.

Given the lack of real narrative action in A Feast For Crows, I'm thinking much of that could be in a season 4 combined with most of A Dance with Dragons. A Feast For Crows feels like 3 or 4 episodes tops in terms of actual story-telling.

I hope they'll keep the season a year schedule, but they'll definitely run out of fresh material, unless the success of the TV series and the addition of other creative minds has kick started Martin's writing motor, so we're not waiting another 5 years between novels.

There is also the possibility that after 5 seasons they may decide to make films, which would give more time for Martin to write and a greater budget for the epic battles that are yet to come.

My best case scenario is the following:

Season 2 = 2012: COK + 15% of SOS

Season 3 = 2013: 85% of SOS + relevant FOC + ADWD to keep storylines up to date

Season 4 = 2014: FOC + ADWD (Winds of Winter published in before Season 4 begins)

Season 5 = 2015: WOW part 1

Season 6 = 2016: WOW part 2

A Dream of Spring would then be made into a film trilogy...with the first film coming out in 2018, and the book being released after the first film.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

A Dream of Spring would then be made into a film trilogy...with the first film coming out in 2018, and the book being released after the first film.

A great idea in concept that almost never ends up happening.

Several great TV shows have been speculated to reach a more satisfying conclusion through feature films (Deadwood, Sopranos, DS9, others) that never materialized. As difficult as it is to produce a great long-running TV series, it's more difficult to make big budget cinema happen, especially with a cast the size of GoT.

[The Mountain That Glides]

It's impossible that RW would be episode 5, season 3. It doesn't necessarily have to happen in the finale, but it's on page 720 or so out of 1050 or something close to that. They're not going to do 700 pages of material during the end of season 2 and the first four eps of season 3. 700 pages is about where the death of Ned was, AKA episode 9.

[HouseLark]

So far, absolutely nobody has given a justification for why 7-9 season will not happen.

Just playing the odds. How many drama series get beyond 4-5 seasons? Maybe the longevity of shows like the X-Files and Buffy leave some hope for a long-running series but I doubt it - there hasn't been one for a while now, especially in a niche genre. I'd like to see it wrapped up in 5 seasons with the last 3 seasons running to 20-24 episodes each. Otherwise I fear we won't see the end of the story on TV.

[ladyriverrun]

My take is that the two books will be combined into 2 seasons. Most of ADWD is supposed occur at the same time as events in AFFC. With GRRM's help, the screenwriters will match up the timelines and find an appropriate point to end season 4 based on teh timeline, not on book divisions.

Mee too, because I missed everyone in the fourth book I love reading about. I wouldn't want to miss them on screen. If needed, they might as well make the season double length, instead of 10 episodes 20 or so.

[ladyriverrun]

My take is that the two books will be combined into 2 seasons. Most of ADWD is supposed occur at the same time as events in AFFC. With GRRM's help, the screenwriters will match up the timelines and find an appropriate point to end season 4 based on teh timeline, not on book divisions.

Me too, because I missed everyone in the fourth book I love reading about. I wouldn't want to miss them on screen. If needed, they might as well make the season double length, instead of 10 episodes 20 or so.

[mpbarnes]

A great idea in concept that almost never ends up happening.

Several great TV shows have been speculated to reach a more satisfying conclusion through feature films (Deadwood, Sopranos, DS9, others) that never materialized. As difficult as it is to produce a great long-running TV series, it's more difficult to make big budget cinema happen, especially with a cast the size of GoT.

True, but with the end of major franchises (Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Twilight) all in the next couple of years, and nothing to fill the gap (it's not like they'll make "The Simarillion" into a movie) the scope and popularity of Game Of Thrones could change somethings. Additionally the frustration that's likely to ensue from the budgetary constraints of TV + Martin's writing schedule could make it the only viable way for a satisfactory conclusion.

[mpbarnes]

It's impossible that RW would be episode 5, season 3. It doesn't necessarily have to happen in the finale, but it's on page 720 or so out of 1050 or something close to that. They're not going to do 700 pages of material during the end of season 2 and the first four eps of season 3. 700 pages is about where the death of Ned was, AKA episode 9.

Good point, but Ned's death is 727 in my paper back copy, with only 79 pages left in GOT + maybe 50 pages of additions from the other books. RW is over at 705 and there's still 400+ pages left and tons of drama, far too much for a single season finale, and too dramatic for early episodes in a separate season.

Plus, you have to take into account that some of SOS is already teased as being in Season 2. That could move things up a bit...but, perhaps episode 7 in season three would be a better spot, presuming they are still on 10 episode schedule, hopefully we'll get 12 episodes for the rest of the seasons!

[The Mountain That Glides]

Yes, I know Ned's death was much closer to the end of the novel, I was just saying that using precedent for pacing, it took them 9 episodes to do 700 pages. There was maybe 12 pages from Clash in the the first season. Arya's first chapter, which is extremely short, and the shortened Jaime/Catelyn conversation. Not really worth mentioning.

[Joni]

You could probably mix them both into one season. Not a whole lot happens anyways.

[MadMage]

For season 4, I'd suggest cutting out a large part of Sam's voyage from Eastwatch by the sea and Oldtown. Other than Aemon's death and hearing about the dragons, I felt the story was largely boring.

In fact, the perfect segue for the scene of the Jon and Sam argument is Sam saying "But my father..." and then the next scene we have Brienne meet Randyll Tarly at Gulltown.

[FilliamHMuffman]

Season 3 - Ends with the Purple Wedding.

Season 4 - The end of A Storm of Swords and the beginning of A Dance with Dragons and A Feast for Crows.

Season 5 - The end of A Dance with Dragons and A Feast for Crows and a bit of The Winds of Winter to address a few cliffhangers.

[Nuke1096]

I'm thinking this is the best way to split things up through Season 5...

Season 3 – First 2/3 of Storm of Swords (Ends at RW)

Season 4 – Last 1/3 of Storm of Swords with First 50% of Feast and First 30% of Dance running concurrently

Season 5 – Last 50% of Feast and Next 30% of Dance running concurrently, then last 40% of Dance

With that format, we're roughly doing Storm of Swords in about 15 episodes and Dance with Dragons also in about 15 episodes, with the events of Feast running concurrently alongside them. That'd give us essentially 1 book for each season through the first 5 books. Hopefully then Book 6 and 7 could each be done in one season each for a neat 7 books in 7 seasons scenario.

[ladyriverrun]

I think the best thing they could do is to combine the fourth and fifth book into 2 or 3 seasons. So, they will be able to tell the entire storyline and without losing the audience, because they might miss all of their favorite characters that weren't in the Feast for Crows. Since the fourth and the fifth were written during the same time span, I don't think this will be much of a problem.

[Bastien]

Season 3 - Ends with the Purple Wedding.

Season 4 - The end of A Storm of Swords and the beginning of A Dance with Dragons and A Feast for Crows.

Season 5 - The end of A Dance with Dragons and A Feast for Crows and a bit of The Winds of Winter to address a few cliffhangers.

More or less this. There just isn't enough narrative in FFC and DWD to devote two or more seasons of television to. I think the diffusion of the story, the introduction of new houses and characters, and the lack of incident are going to be major, legitimate concerns for the showrunners. There's going to need to be major distillation and compression of the story to hold the audience's interest (this isn't a knock against the books, but FFC's and DWD's strengths are very literary in nature).

Do SOS in one and a half seasons, combine FFC and DWD into one and a half seasons. I'm not sure where the season breaks would be, I'd need to go back over the books, but I'm sure there's some logical points to break the story.