[ADwD Spoilers] The Fallout at the Wall

[uncle fester]

Staying on the Wall without complying to Ramsay's demands is inviting him to attack the Wall. And that's the last thing anyone would want - especially now.

It's the middle of winter. Stannis can't even make it to Winterfell despite being only 3 days away. How is Ramsay going to make it all the way north to the wall?

[King Cheops]

Melisandre has put a special glamour around Jon that absorbs knife blows. That's why his wounds smoked. It is known.

So who glamored the trial by combat between Oberyn Martell and Gregor Clegane? GRRM also described the blood as smoking when Gregor was finishing off Oberyn.

[uncle fester]

I wonder could a giant be warged. Wouldnt it be great if jon took over for wun wun. He warged in to someone because he didnt fill the 4th dager. The likly choice would have been ghost but he is locked up so I dont think it was him.

Reading too much into that I think. If you get stabbed multiple times, the body goes into shock and further stabs are numbed.

[hotweaselsoup]

Robb was willing to trade for Jon - he thought about offering a hundred fresh recruits to the Watch if they released his brother from his vows. The NW was so desperate for recruits, they might have taken him up on his offer. That is certainly different from a king declaring a vow invalid.

Maybe that is the reason that Robb's letter settling the succession never surfaced. They would probably want to get Jon released from his NW vows before declaring him heir to the King in the North. And with Robb's subsequent defeat at the Red Wedding, they could not offer the NW recruits in exchange for Jon's release.

It seems to me that Jon swore his oath before a weirwood tree, and it would take more than some king's writ to free him from the Night's Watch. I think only death, or some act or sign from the Old Gods, will release him. But I think he should stay a brother of the Night's Watch. Jon has tried to desert twice, and both times his brothers have brought him back. I really think he should get the message and honor his word. (If he lives, that is.)

[Stark@heart]

John could be saved by the 3EC the same way Bran was. He could have his 3rd eye opened, this would finally bring in the Bran angle and keep Jon out of the grips of the Red Witch. Mel thinks she's all that but she's wrong a lot of the time. I don't want Jon's life in her hands. He is the Hero of the story so no way will he "die" He'll be taken to an ice cell and left for dead but the crow will wake him the same way he did Bran. I think Jon with the magic/power of the old gods is the balance between Ice (Others) and Fire (Dany, dragons, Mel & Co)

[The Blind Eye]

John could be saved by the 3EC the same way Bran was. He could have his 3rd eye opened, this would finally bring in the Bran angle and keep Jon out of the grips of the Red Witch. Mel thinks she's all that but she's wrong a lot of the time.

I've had a similar thought rattling around my head that Bran or Bloodraven would heal Jon at some point after Bran asks Bloodraven if he was going to fix his legs but BR responds ".. that is beyond my power...". however i would hope a couple stab wounds would be doable since even mediocre medicine can fix those. although maybe it will be Melisandre and add a little more depth to Jon as he questions his feeling about her powers and her as a person.

[uncle fester]

Indeed, GRRM has used that convention on Starks at least twice now with Arya (Yoren and Sandor) - so I wouldn't put it past him to use it again. I believe that he will "wake up" one day with Mel sitting nearby, and he will be told that he was in a coma. Whether he was raised from the dead or not will be left open-ended.

I like this.

Having Jon definitely dead and rising from the dead at a later stage is problematic.

Can you imagine the canteen conversation between NW brothers discussing the best way to kill people coming back to life with the blue eyes and somebody running in shouting "Lord Snow is alive. He's back from the dead and..."?

He'd get trampled by sword/axe/mace wielding brothers before he can say that Lord Snow doesn't have blue eyes and appears to be perfectly fine.

The only way for Jon to avoid being lynched is to be taken under Mel's care, where he can recover from the "coma".

Another thing, the Queen's men are nominally Selyse's but really their loyalty is to Mel. They are hardly going to participate in a plot against her pet now are they?

[tze]

Another thing, the Queen's men are nominally Selyse's but really their loyalty is to Mel. They are hardly going to participate in a plot against her pet now are they?

But look at how Mel describes Alf of Runnymudd, one of the four assassins, in her POV:

the queen’s man she knew as Alf of Runnymudd, one of the first to exchange his seven false gods for the truth of R’hllor.

[The GRRumbler]

The thing is, the way Martin describes Jon's death was very similar to how he described Varamyr's death, and i think he wouldn't do that unless he really meant to show that Jon was actually dying, but i stil believe there's a possibility that Melisandre brings him back from the dead like Thoros did to Berric.

[ARYa_Nym]

The thing is, the way Martin describes Jon's death was very similar to hwo he described Varamyr's death, and i think he wouldn't do that unless he really meant to show that Jon was actually dying, but i stil believe there's a possibility that Melisandre brings him back from the dead like Thoros did to Berric.

I got Catwoman vibes from him.

"He was nine times dead and dying, and this would be his true death."