Sandor Clegane v. 7...better, faster, stronger...

[Ednawolf]

Has the significance of Sandor being the "Gravedigger" been discussed? (Beyond the implication that it would mean that Sandor is still alive). He could be assigned to any job on the QI... the horse brusher, the hot pie maker, the gardener.... but he's the GraveDigger. What does that say about his future role in the series? Or does it say more about his past role as the Hound?

[headtrip_honey]

Has the significance of Sandor being the "Gravedigger" been discussed? (Beyond the implication that it would mean that Sandor is still alive). He could be assigned to any job on the QI... the horse brusher, the hot pie maker, the gardener.... but he's the GraveDigger. What does that say about his future role in the series? Or does it say more about his past role as the Hound?

Could possibly be symbolic of him taking responsibility for all the people he's killed.

Could also just be an open job that really needed to be filled. :)

[FacelessGirl]

I think him being the Gravedigger is symbolizing him burying his past and his misdeeds in order to be a more peaceful person.

[Ednawolf]

I think him being the Gravedigger is symbolizing him burying his past and his misdeeds in order to be a more peaceful person.

That makes sense. I guess I was thinking that GraveDigger meant that he was going to exact justice on a few people... dig their graves, so to speak... but, yeah, it totally could go the other way and mean that he is burying his own ruthless nature, the hound persona, etc.

[Lemon Cake]

Could also just be an open job that really needed to be filled. :)

Yep, and he's a big, strong guy who can handle the work. (Because digging is hard, especially in frozen ground.) It's cool to think of the symbolism behind it, but I think it was probably more a pragmatic decision to have him be the gravedigger than anything else.

[headtrip_honey]

Yep, and he's a big, strong guy who can handle the work..

...he can handle MY work...

::ahem::

Anyway, it's possible there was some symbolism intended, but yeah. Pragmatism. Also, gravediggers are likely needed, due to all the pillaging going on across the water.

Although it's difficult to predict what's going to happen with Sandor's storyline, I'd love to see some kind of interaction with Jaime and Brienne, if only to have the three of them interact. He and Jaime can have a snark-off, and I'd love to read Brienne's reaction to him.

[I'dsingforyou]

I'd like to see Briennes reaction too. I think at first she would be set to kill the evil Hound but she would be one of the few people that could probably recognise that he is not all that bad once she knows the truth about saltpans. She's seems to be able to accept traveling with some unsavory characters if need be too.

And congratulations on Sandor as prince charming!! Yay! I did two posts that were wrong then was sleeping at the end so was no help really :)

[headtrip_honey]

I'd like to see Briennes reaction too. I think at first she would be set to kill the evil Hound but she would be one of the few people that could probably recognise that he is not all that bad once she knows the truth about saltpans. She's seems to be able to accept traveling with some unsavory characters if need be too.

And congratulations on Sandor as prince charming!! Yay! I did two posts that were wrong then was sleeping at the end so was no help really :)

I may have developed carpal tunnel as a result of that competition.

:leaving:

[1234567]

Yep, and he's a big, strong guy who can handle the work. (Because digging is hard, especially in frozen ground.) It's cool to think of the symbolism behind it, but I think it was probably more a pragmatic decision to have him be the gravedigger than anything else.

Digging also means a lot of twists and stretches for you thigh muscles. Could the Gravedigging be a moderate for of physiotherapy?

[Starbird]

Gregor shattered Sandor's dreams about what a Knight was. Is it possible that Cersei shattered Sandor's dream of what a fair lady was?

Or could he have had feelings for Cersei at some point. She is meant to been stunningly beautiful.

Possibly, but if he was enamored of her, only to be disappointed, I think he'd be pretty angry about it, as that is his default emotion. And, if that were the case, why would he still be working for her directly? We never see them speak to one another "on stage" but clearly they communicate. (But what the hell about??? I'm so nosey!) It's strange that she doesn't think about him in her chapters.

I think teen!Sandor would have been too generally misanthropic to be taken in by Cersei's charms. Do we know if he was aware of the incest?

Good question. If he was Cersei's dog, I think he probably would've been aware of something fishy going on with Jaime. (C/J are about 7 years old than Sandor, right?)

I am probably reading too much into the text, but I thought that it took him a long time to answer if he wanted to be in the KG and that the wife and lands were the first thing he mentioned meant that he had still been hoping for those things and by accepting the role in the KG, he finally gave up on them.

Hey, excellent point! He gives up the wife/lands but still refuses to be a knight. That he'd give that stuff up, in Sansa's presence, is rather sad. :(

Of course Sandor = Prince Charming! We crowned him King of Love and Beauty sometime after the 3rd thread. :)

[Été]

Good question. If he was Cersei's dog, I think he probably would've been aware of something fishy going on with Jaime. (C/J are about 7 years old than Sandor, right?)

Five. They're Gregor's age. And Cersei does think of him from time to time in her chapters - she thinks it's a shame he's not around to scare some backbone into Tommen. She gets the news about Saltpans too, and later the High Septon confronts her about him. Actually, doesn't she reflect at one point that Joff saw the Hound as a father figure?

[Starbird]

Five. They're Gregor's age. And Cersei does think of him from time to time in her chapters - she thinks it's a shame he's not around to scare some backbone into Tommen. She gets the news about Saltpans too, and later the High Septon confronts her about him. Actually, doesn't she reflect at one point that Joff saw the Hound as a father figure?

I thought it was more "Joff seems to respect the man" or something along that line. That "the man" always struck me as oddly impersonal given what I presume to be their past connection.

[headtrip_honey]

I thought it was more "Joff seems to respect the man" or something along that line. That "the man" always struck me as oddly impersonal given what I presume to be their past connection.

Pretty sure she mentions the Hound being a father figure of sorts. In the sense that Joff, since he never got attention from Robert, switched his "affections" ( ::shudder:: ) to the Hound.

[Été]

I thought it was more "Joff seems to respect the man" or something along that line. That "the man" always struck me as oddly impersonal given what I presume to be their past connection.

Cersei seems to have an out-of-sight, out-of-mind approach to all of her subordinates. The Hound is no exception. Unlike Jaime, she never queries his role at Saltpans; I just don't think she knew him well enough to judge, or cared enough to give it thought. I doubt if their relationship has ever been anything other than that of taskmaster and employee.

The quote about Joff is in the context of how Tommen should have companions, and Cersei reflects that Joffrey had no friends his own age.

Joff had been fond of the Hound, to be sure, but that was not friendship. He was looking for the father he never found in Robert.

[I'dsingforyou]

Joff had been fond of the Hound, to be sure, but that was not friendship. He was looking for the father he never found in Robert.

Out of all the guards around Joff and out of all the male role models around him through his life the fact that Joff chose the Hound to try and look for the father he never had in spoke volumes to me when I read it.

How can this guy be that bad if the kings son, shit that he is, thinks he is better then this father and the queen is happy for Joff to continue and perhaps even encourage their relationship. Plus it adds weight to the question that's been asked in the past is the Hound good with kids? How can he not be when he was just about Joffs babysitter with the king and queens blessing but was still cool and someone to look up to.

[headtrip_honey]

Out of all the guards around Joff and out of all the male role models around him through his life the fact that Joff chose the Hound to try and look for the father he never had in spoke volumes to me when I read it.

How can this guy be that bad if the kings son, shit that he is, thinks he is better then this father and the queen is happy for Joff to continue and perhaps even encourage their relationship. Plus it adds weight to the question that's been asked in the past is the Hound good with kids? How can he not be when he was just about Joffs babysitter with the king and queens blessing but was still cool and someone to look up to.

I wouldn't say that Cersei thinking the Hound is an appropriate babysitter is really a recommendation. :)

However, I actually think that the Hound, relatively speaking, is pretty good with kids.

I mean, Myrcella's not afraid to talk around him, Tommen doesn't seem that scared of him (and what ISN'T Tommen scared of?). I love the scene at the tourney on Joff's name day. Sandor taking up Tommen's side. "The lad's got courage" and all. Love it.

I've said before, and I'll say it again, I think the Hound actually likes kids because a.) he's emotionally stunted and b.) kids are more honest than adults. Less bullshit to deal with.

[It is known.]

I wouldn't say that Cersei thinking the Hound is an appropriate babysitter is really a recommendation. :)

However, I actually think that the Hound, relatively speaking, is pretty good with kids.

I mean, Myrcella's not afraid to talk around him, Tommen doesn't seem that scared of him (and what ISN'T Tommen scared of?). I love the scene at the tourney on Joff's name day. Sandor taking up Tommen's side. "The lad's got courage" and all. Love it.

I've said before, and I'll say it again, I think the Hound actually likes kids because a.) he's emotionally stunted and b.) kids are more honest than adults. Less bullshit to deal with.

I agree the hound's good with kids, but I think he'd draw the line at Sweetrobin. Or he'd try and toughen him up I suppose... Either way I think it would be a humourous meeting :P

[Alexia]

I think the Hound would be good for Sweetrobin. Some tough discipline from someone who is NOT trying to poison him is just what Sweetrobin needs. Sansa is too young and inexperienced to handle him in the right way (manipulation being effective, but what he needs is discipline) and LF is trying to murder him.

And I agree, Sandor is really good with kids. Can you imagine him offering to turn Sweetrobin over to the silent sisters if he doesn't shut up? :lol:

[LittleDragon]

Cersei seems to have an out-of-sight, out-of-mind approach to all of her subordinates. The Hound is no exception. Unlike Jaime, she never queries his role at Saltpans; I just don't think she knew him well enough to judge, or cared enough to give it thought. I doubt if their relationship has ever been anything other than that of taskmaster and employee.

The quote about Joff is in the context of how Tommen should have companions, and Cersei reflects that Joffrey had no friends his own age.

Joff had been fond of the Hound, to be sure, but that was not friendship. He was looking for the father he never found in Robert.

I think Cersei did't take a thought to him as far as he guarded well her children. she had an eye only to goodlooking men. Jaime knew Sandor better, certainly they are quite close at age and maybe they were training together when they were younger. Jaime is the Lord Commander of the Kings guard, he has some responsibility on the behavior of his man, I think this is the reason he was thinking on Sandor after Saltapan.

[Tully to a T]

Sandor #7 ... so good to come back and see the Sisterhood still keeping the flame lit!

RE the Gravedigger job, I think I recall the Elder Brother saying to Brienne that all sorts of bodies wash up on the QI, including children. Considering the speculation about Sandor having an affinity and protectiveness towards kids, I suspect having to bury a bunch of dead children is really going to work a number on his psyche. I would be very intrigued to hear him talk to Sansa someday, as a counterpoint to their conversation at the top of the Keep, where he gives her his "steel is all there is, and if you can't protect yourself then get out of the way" speech.

It would be very interesting to me to hear how he might re-phrase that philosphy after burying so many who were senselessly slaughtered, especially the children.

I would also like to hear him tell some more backstory of his time as a teen in the Lannister household. Someone pointed out that Cersei barely thinks of him in her POV chapters ... she seems to me like someone who would barely notice a young man with such bad facial scarring. He barely seems to exist for her as a human being and I'm sure that would have been clear to him from day 1.