Sandor Clegane v.8... his awesomeness can't be contained in 7 threads.

[Errant Bard]

That is my flaw. :P

Instead of "my flaw", I would rather put "awesome". :thumbsup:

[den_lange_sommer_31]

Certainly, I don't have to participate in any thread posted on these boards. But I don't have to stop myself from reading and participating in threads on topics I don't fully agree with, either. Isn't control marvellous?

I didn't realise that when you posted that you didn't understand hostile feelings you expected only validation of your feelings, not any attempt at explaining.

(sorry for the OT, but really, what the hell?)

Maybe you took what i said out of context, i was just saying that i dont understand all the Sandor / Sansa hate when its identical to Drogo / Dani... I feel people get way more fired up over the thought of Sandor / Sansa...

Or maybe its because i dont see the characters as what book readers/before tv viewers see because i am one of the many who were a tv viewer - book reader even if i stopped watching after the first episode until after i finished the first book. I see quite a lot of the characters older than their book selves. Just because i like the pairing of Sansa and Sandor doesn't mean i disregard everything else in the book... im no "fangirl" over the relationships aspect. i just like their dynamic together.

I also didn't want a validation of my own feelings, i am well aware that my opinion is just that my own. I dont have a problem with it, doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't as well. I didn't take your response as an explanation when you ended it with "Examine yourself" i took it as an attack on my better judgement. That i couldn't see

a 26 year old eliciting a sexual relationship with a 13 year as a disgusting thing... Which as i have stated i am very much aware and disgusted with the thought if such things were pertaining to RL. However in the realm of Westeros i dont see the age gap being atrocious, if they were trying to pair Arya and Sandor i certainly would not be on that ship.

[Candor]

@Errant Bard

If I offended you in some way with my postage, I apologize. I'm used to people being righteous assholes on topics like these, so it triggered what I wrote, and if that's really not what you were going for, my sincerest sorry.

[brashcandy]

Back to Sandor:

I think GRRM has something big in store for him - something that will, yes, keep him away from Sansa for a while, but will eventually be what leads him back to her.

We've speculated on him playing a role for the Faith - although in my view this doesn't seem like it would be Sandor's style to get involved in... the politics of religion :).

I think he might be caught up in something to do with religion however, perhaps more connected with the EB and the QI. Maybe they will be the ones to take down the High Septon??

Or Sandor could be Azor Ahai... or Loras, or Brienne, or Jaime, or Jon and Dany :lol:

[Candor]

Back to Sandor:

I think GRRM has something big in store for him - something that will, yes, keep him away from Sansa for a while, but will eventually be what leads him back to her.

We've speculated on him playing a role for the Faith - although in my view this doesn't seem like it would be Sandor's style to get involved in... the politics of religion :).

I think he might be caught up in something to do with religion however, perhaps more connected with the EB and the QI. Maybe they will be the ones to take down the High Septon??

Or Sandor could be Azor Ahai... or Loras, or Brienne, or Jaime, or Jon and Dany :lol:

It's my personal opinion that if they do, Sandor and Sansa won't have have a chance to meet up again for a long time. I just have the feeling their storylines are going to be so close to each other, geographically, yet they keep missing running into one another. I don't think George RR would give us such quick satisfaction ;)

Oh bugger religion. Very much doubt it. I don't remember if it was on this thread or another, but my views on the whole trial by combat / faith champion business is......it's going to be Lancel, not Sandor. Lancel is waiting to for his big chance to either become a martyr if he loses, or plan B, redeem himself if he managed to win (WHICH HE WILL NOT, as we can see).

I just don't see it being conceivable that A: KL will know about him being alive, B: and decide, oh this will be a great champion for us (considering what they think he did in Saltpans [!]), or C: He would be able to get there in time for the trial even if they did pick him. AND D: There's no way he's getting to go against "Ser Robert Strong" that soon into the book.

I believe (want) there to be an outside of KL showdown between these two gents, possibly back on their home turf?! (And get to see the Clegane home base? Yes and please). I think Cersei whether she wins the trial or not (which she will :eyeroll:) she is going to get booted out of KL or leave, most likely the first option, and she's going to take her un!Champion with her. Dunno what the circumstances are that Sandor leaves the QI, but I see them meeting up on the road or somewhere poignant.

I re-iterate: I have no conclusive proof, these are just opinions.

Oh, and the High Septon is cray cray. I don't know what the bros on the QI think they could do, but I could see them not being a fan of letting that wench stay in power.

[Ednawolf]

You tempted me :).

Sandor, Tyrion and also LF are not pedophiles, because, strange as it may sound, Sansa isn't a child. She is a "maid". Arya is a child, she know is, she calls herself that. Sansa, who is just three years older, sees herself as a bride-to-be, and regarded by the people around her in the same light. Her physical age makes us think of her as a child, but her social age is that of a young adult. In Westeros they don't have the prolonged adolescence typical to our time and age. They are children - and then, in a couple of years, they are young men and women who should know better. When Tyrion tells Sansa that she is a child he doesn't literally mean "a child" - he means that she is very young and inocent. Nowadays you could say that to an 18-years old bride.

LF looks like a pedophile because he behaves like one. All this "give daddy a kiss" is sickening. It would still be sickening with a girl of twenty.

I'm not trying to say here that is is normal to have sex with a 13-year old. I'm trying to say that "normal" very much depends on the time and place.

I think the flaw is with GRRM. He should have had the Stark children older right from the get-go. Sansa should have started the series at age 15 / 16. I know that he was going by the norm in our medieval times, but since this is a fantasy series he didn't need to stick to that historical norm. If dragons can exist...

[FacelessGirl]

I think the flaw is with GRRM. He should have had the Stark children older right from the get-go. Sansa should have started the series at age 15 / 16. I know that he was going by the norm in our medieval times, but since this is a fantasy series he didn't need to stick to that historical norm. If dragons can exist...

I agree with this. Arya is awesome but sometimes its hard to remember she's only 11. The shipper in me wishes Sansa was 16-18 so she and Sandor can explore their relationship.Oh well, maybe he can still do the age up in A Dream of Spring.

Love your avatar Ednawolf, yum! :drool:

[shensation]

oh my goodness, not only have I found a Sandor thread but there were SEVEN OTHERS before it! I'm sorry I don't have time to go back and read them all, though I read all of this one. I'm new to the books and newer still to the fandom but I'm a huge dork for Sandor, he quickly became my favorite (you should have seen my RAAAAAGE when I thought Arya left him to die, my friend says "chill keep reading", and shared with me her theory why Sandor was still alive, which I'm so pleased to see so many people share!)

Anyhow I actually logged in with a Sandor related question- you all have probably discussed this before but like I said I'm new so please indulge me

I'm still in the middle of A Feast For Crows (you won't see too much of me until I finish them all but this is PLAGUING me) and Sansa keeps making reference this memory of Sandor kissing her at Blackwater ("he stole a song and a kiss"). Now, I'm listening to the audiobook so maybe I missed a bit, but I went back and listened to that chapter again and I'm pretty damn confident it went something like "...And then nothing happened."

....what in the name of hell is she remembering?

[headtrip_honey]

oh my goodness, not only have I found a Sandor thread but there were SEVEN OTHERS before it! I'm sorry I don't have time to go back and read them all, though I read all of this one. I'm new to the books and newer still to the fandom but I'm a huge dork for Sandor, he quickly became my favorite (you should have seen my RAAAAAGE when I thought Arya left him to die, my friend says "chill keep reading", and shared with me her theory why Sandor was still alive, which I'm so pleased to see so many people share!)

Anyhow I actually logged in with a Sandor related question- you all have probably discussed this before but like I said I'm new so please indulge me

I'm still in the middle of A Feast For Crows (you won't see too much of me until I finish them all but this is PLAGUING me) and Sansa keeps making reference this memory of Sandor kissing her at Blackwater ("he stole a song and a kiss"). Now, I'm listening to the audiobook so maybe I missed a bit, but I went back and listened to that chapter again and I'm pretty damn confident it went something like "...And then nothing happened."

....what in the name of hell is she remembering?

Welcome!

Sansa is mis-remembering because she secretly lurrrrvvves Sandor. GRRM has hinted that this "un-memory" will be very important later on.

[seanbean4lyfe]

Welcome!

Sansa is mis-remembering because she secretly lurrrrvvves Sandor.

hahahahahahahaha

this

[shensation]

is she seriously?

OH THAT GIRL. She wants him bad. I can't figure out how you can completely imagine up your first kiss like that but thats pretty hilarious. I do hope that DOES come up again later, yes indeed.

[Candor]

is she seriously?

OH THAT GIRL. She wants him bad. I can't figure out how you can completely imagine up your first kiss like that but thats pretty hilarious. I do hope that DOES come up again later, yes indeed.

I'm thinking she deserves a nice big REAL first kiss from him when they meet up. Oh, and yeah. You know you want to, Sandor ;) *nudge*

[Candor]

Now no worries, I'm not going to post a bunch, in fact not even more than this, but....

http://guinevere--pendragon.tumblr.com/post/12966633237

Third frame.

Sandor is watching :)

[Zmeischa]

I think Sandor has an important place in the story because he has a double role in it. He is both a mentor and a student.

He serves as a mentor to Sansa. Not only helps us to see her for a person she really is, not just a vain and silly girl she seems to be, but he brings up what is best in her, he dissolves her prejudices, he wakes her heart, and he gives her something to hold on to when her personality starts to dissolve.

He also is a teacher to Arya. He doesn’t just physically bring her to the place where she is supposed to be, that would have been a rather secondary role, after all. No, he constantly interacts with her, teaches her, treats her, for all purposes, like a dog would treat his pup, or a wolf – his cub. And, strange to say, while he teaches her how to kill, he also introduces her to the concept for mercy, which first appears as a knife through the heart of a dying man, but then becomes real when Arya spares the life of the Hound she hates.

This said, it is easy to believe that his time in the series is over, because both Sansa and Arya are out of his reach now and he was there only for their sake, so to say. But that is where his second purpose comes into view – that of a changing persons. Things that happen to him are not just bad, scary or traumatic (nothing special in that, GRRM is a harsh master), they are very specific. He loses his face, his position on the world and, lastly, his name. And those are the same things that happen to a number of POV-heroes, namely Arya, Sansa, Theon, Tyrion… It looks very much like a part of initiation: a terrible and painful process that precedes a spiritual growth.

So, I think that his role in the series will continue to be a double one. As a mentor, he is, I believe, is going to interact with Brienne. He just seems to appear on her way again and again, but never face to face: she hears his story, she sees his helmet, she uses his name in a lie… It is high time that she meets him in person. And as a student he is, a think, about to show exactly what life’s harsh lessons had shown him and what kind of man Sandor Clegane really is. I cannot wait :).

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

While i think everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the subject of the is he/ isnt he a pedophile debate depends on the person.

pedophilia has nothing to do with the size of an age gap - it has to do with attraction to prepubescent children.

It might be argued that Sandor and Littlefinger were attracted to Sansa before she "flowered" and hence have... pedophilic tendencies. I rather think not, given that she was only months away from he rfirst period by the time they met her. It's a borderline case.

Dani/Drogo had a similar age gap and i dont recall that many people arguing over the "wrongness" of their relationship. (Maybe they have, but i have yet to meet a person who didnt like the pairing, or have a problem with the age gap)

It's also not like they are set it the 21st Century where their age gap would be frowned upon.

So i dont understand the SanxSan hate.

I know almost no one on this forum that likes the Drogo/Dany relationship. A few fans appeared after the TV series but it's extremely rare. Most conversations are about how often he raped her so... yay. Hardly a storybook romance. A lot of people here think it was some modified form of Stockholm Syndrome in fact. But since you asked, any ship with Dany is not technically pedophilic because she'd "flowered" awhile before the start of the first book.

And just to be clear,

By faaaar San-San is the most popular ship in this fandom and almost no one "hates" it.

[I'dsingforyou]

oh my goodness, not only have I found a Sandor thread but there were SEVEN OTHERS before it! I'm sorry I don't have time to go back and read them all, though I read all of this one. I'm new to the books and newer still to the fandom but I'm a huge dork for Sandor, he quickly became my favorite (you should have seen my RAAAAAGE when I thought Arya left him to die, my friend says "chill keep reading", and shared with me her theory why Sandor was still alive, which I'm so pleased to see so many people share!)

Anyhow I actually logged in with a Sandor related question- you all have probably discussed this before but like I said I'm new so please indulge me

I'm still in the middle of A Feast For Crows (you won't see too much of me until I finish them all but this is PLAGUING me) and Sansa keeps making reference this memory of Sandor kissing her at Blackwater ("he stole a song and a kiss"). Now, I'm listening to the audiobook so maybe I missed a bit, but I went back and listened to that chapter again and I'm pretty damn confident it went something like "...And then nothing happened."

....what in the name of hell is she remembering?

Hi shansation I know exactly how you feel. I was so surprised when I found Sandor thread 5 but here I am. :)

Does anyone else have as many threads as Sandor? Seriously? I have seen appreciation threads for almost every character but eight of them? (because their awsomeness can't be contained)...I haven't seen it but then I am biased and haven't been around all that long.

[Lemon Cake]

Welcome, shensation! I know headtrip_honey has already answered your question, but if you're curious about GRRM's exact words which I may or may not have bookmarked what don't judge me on the subject of Sansa's misremembering/imagining the kiss, here they are:

[Note: This mail has been edited for brevity.]

. . . this is an inconsistency with ASoS more than an outright error. In ASoS, Sansa thinks that the Hound kissed her before leaving her room and King's Landing. In ACoK, no kiss is mentioned in the scene, though Sansa did think that he was about to do so.

Well, not every inconsistency is a mistake, actually. Some are quite intentional. File this one under "unreliable narrator" and feel free to ponder its meaning. . .

[GRRM is asked about Sansa misremembering the name of Joffrey's sword.]

The Lion's Paw / Lion's Tooth business, on the other hand, is intentional. A small touch of the unreliable narrator. I was trying to establish that the memories of my viewpoint characters are not infallible. Sansa is simply remembering it wrong. A very minor thing (you are the only one to catch it to date), but it was meant to set the stage for a much more important lapse in memory. You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom... but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it's a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on.

[brashcandy]

Ok, so the Lion's paw mismemory came before the kiss mismemory am I right? So he was setting us up for the latter by revealing the former... Or is he talking about some other important lapse of memory that we haven't seen or detected yet?

And I know we've been through countless threads on the unkiss, but really, besides highlighting that Sansa has the hots for him, and indicating sexual awakening, maturity, etc, I'm at a loss for what GRRM could do with this in terms of a real narrative twist or surprise.

[Lemon Cake]

Ok, so the Lion's paw mismemory came before the kiss mismemory am I right? So he was setting us up for the latter by revealing the former... Or is he talking about some other important lapse of memory that we haven't seen or detected yet?

My understanding of his quote is that Sansa misremembering the name of Joff's sword was specifically meant to set up the mismemory of the unkiss. I don't think there are any more mismemories on Sansa's part to come in future books. The unkiss is the "much more important lapse in memory" he was referring to.

And I know we've been through countless threads on the unkiss, but really, besides highlighting that Sansa has the hots for him, and indicating sexual awakening, maturity, etc, I'm at a loss for what GRRM could do with this in terms of a real narrative twist or surprise.

I am, too. It's reason #119 why I'm so confident we'll get some Sandor/Sansa in future books.

[brashcandy]

Thanks for the clarification, Lemoncake :) It's when he says "that will eventually mean something" that has me going crazy! Everytime I see the quote it sets me thinking again.