ElizaMartell Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Some of the theories I have seen for the next book involve the Vale familes help Sansa to claim Winterfell/Riverlands. Logically to me, this doesn't make any sense. First the major families of the Vale have more links with the Freys/ Arryn to bother helping her. Secondly, Westeros has just entered Winter so its not like they can march to the North anyway. Thirdly, Sansa doesn't have anything to offer for their allegiance. As far as they're concerned, the Boltons are in charge of the North and has rightfully married Arya Stark at Winterfell. Why should they start a fight based on hereditary titles for a Kingslayer who is may be trying to kill her cousin with sweet sleep?So if there is anyone whose been reading the book for a good while out there, explain to me why the Vale in any realistic shape or form try to support Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The idea is that the Vale will support Sansa's claim to Winterfell if Sansa is married to the heir to the Vale. If Sweetrobin should die this is someone who is called conveniently Harry the Heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerly Grumkin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because she is Mrs. Halfman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Grylls of Skagos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because of Harry the Heir.But probably they are not going to march north now that Winter is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So if there is anyone whose been reading the book for a good while out there, explain to me why the Vale in any realistic shape or form try to support Sansa?She's Ned's daughter and rightfull heir of winterfell in their eyes , maybe after she helps getting rid of LF that sheis mrs. halfman might help with the mountain klans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaMartell Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because of Harry the Heir.But probably they are not going to march north now that Winter is here.That's under the condition that she marries him. That is not guaranteed and as scene with plots that are explained in ASIOAF, they rarely come to pass. Harry could be killed, Randa could be married off to Sweetrobin which wold render that card mute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 1.) Some very influential noble Houses hace family ties to the North and the Starks themselves (Arryn, Royce, whoever Cat mentioned as Robbs potential heirs).2.) The Ned has left quite an impression in the Vale.3.) The houses of the Vale consider themselves "as high as honour". That's quite a motivation if you look at the RW and all the other shit the Lannisters/Tyrells/Freys have pulled.4.) The Vale could profit from a successful war. There are some vacant Northern noble seats, sometimes with female heirs perfectly suited for secondborn sons. Also, the loosers of the war would have to yield some castles to the winners etc.5.) Getting the heir to the North married to the Lord of the Vale forms a pretty formidable power block. Due to geography, a combined Vale-North kingdom is pretty independent, has a solid military and is damn near untakeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementia Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Actually, the Starks are very closely related to the Vale lords. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Stark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's under the condition that she marries him. That is not guaranteed and as scene with plots that are explained in ASIOAF, they rarely come to pass. Harry could be killed, Randa could be married off to Sweetrobin which wold render that card mute. I think it pretty likely that the marriage will come to pass unless Martin wants Sansa to spend the entirety of TWOW being LF's plaything and not actually doing anything. Not that I think everything will go entirely to plan as Sansa will outwit LF and have him excecuted of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerly Grumkin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Plus Harry is kind of a dick, he got a bastard (which actually doesn't make him a dick 100%) Anyway his name is Harry Hardyng, Houdini's name was Harry and his brother's name was Hardden, which kinda sounds like Hardyng... So Harry the Heir is either 1. a magician or 2. A Hungarian Jew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderfist Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think that several of the Vale lords were frustrated that they didn´t rally to the cause of the Starks. Jon Arryn died (they probably think the Lannisters did it), Ned Stark got executed by the Lannisters, Rob and Catelyn "died" at the Red Wedding, Rickon and Bran "died" at Winterfell, "Arya" got married to Ramsay Snow, Sansa vanished and the Tullys lost control of the Riverlands. All while Team "as high as honor" sat on their arses as others bled and died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I don't know if the Vale lords are frustrated. I may have missed it in the text though.The Vale lords are bannerman to House Arryn, a house not joined to House Stark.There were no alliances, as far as we know after the Vale and the North joined forces long ago in Robert's Rebellion.Robb asked for support but the Vale did not answer.If there was a rallying to a cause it would be more logical the cause of Riverrun, because of Jon Arryn's widow being a Tully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I don't know if the Vale lords are frustrated. I may have missed it in the text though.We know that the Royces were "near rebellion" IIRC over Lysa's refusal to aid Robb in his war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Does anyone else think that Alayne's real identity is an open secret in the Vale? Why else would Randa Royce mention Jon Snow?Anyhoo, I don't see anyone, with the exception of Stannis and Co., going to claim Winterfell now that Winter has come, and there are other complications -- Sansa's husband is still alive, Rickon may appear, Robb's will disinheriting Sansa may become public, yadda, yadda . . .But, we'll see . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaMartell Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 We know that the Royces were "near rebellion" IIRC over Lysa's refusal to aid Robb in his war.But there really isn't much precedence given that they'll welcome Sansa with open arms. Lysa's death is suspicous, Sansa has insisted on SweetRobin having sweetsleep. Furthermore, the Freys have more recent marriages to the senior Vale Lords than the Starks, so why help Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 But there really isn't much precedence given that they'll welcome Sansa with open arms. Lysa's death is suspicous, Sansa has insisted on SweetRobin having sweetsleep. Furthermore, the Freys have more recent marriages to the senior Vale Lords than the Starks, so why help Sansa?I suspect everyone in the Seven Kingdoms will be distancing themselves from their Frey ties, honestly. But no, I don't think that the Vale will fall to their knees before her. Some people will back her because she brings the North and the Riverlands, and revenge on the Lannisters (they do hate the Lannisters). Others will oppose her.I have a strange feeling that Mya Stone is going to really hate her once she hears of the marriage with Harry, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We know that the Royces were "near rebellion" IIRC over Lysa's refusal to aid Robb in his war.Ah, then I must have missed that. I'll keep an open eye for it. Is it in ASOS or in ACOK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ah, then I must have missed that. I'll keep an open eye for it. Is it in ASOS or in ACOK?I'm almost positive that it is mentioned in the final Sansa chapter in ASOS. She is info dumping the Vale situation for the reader (LF being named Lord Protector, et al) and it gets mentioned there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oba Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm almost positive that it is mentioned in the final Sansa chapter in ASOS. She is info dumping the Vale situation for the reader (LF being named Lord Protector, et al) and it gets mentioned there.You're right.Lysa was as lonely as she was. Her new husband seemed to spend more time at the foot of the mountain than he did atop it. He was gone now, had been gone the past four days, meeting with the Corbrays. From bits and pieces of overheard conversations Sansa knew that Jon Arryn's bannermen resented Lysa's marriage and begrudged Petyr his authority as Lord Protector of the Vale. The senior branch of House Royce was close to open revolt over her aunt's failure to aid Robb in his war, and the Waynwoods, Redforts, Belmores, and Templetons were giving them every support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaMartell Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 I suspect everyone in the Seven Kingdoms will be distancing themselves from their Frey ties, honestly. But no, I don't think that the Vale will fall to their knees before her. Some people will back her because she brings the North and the Riverlands, and revenge on the Lannisters (they do hate the Lannisters). Others will oppose her.I have a strange feeling that Mya Stone is going to really hate her once she hears of the marriage with Harry, for example.Ehh, why would Mya hate her? Shouldn't she worry more about Randa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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