Sooooo ... The Starks?

[Scipio Africanus]

What if Jon Snow simply doesn't resurrects but has a second life in Ghost and finally ends up Sansa's direwolf? (creepy, I know...)

He will almost certainly warg into Ghost but I do believe he'll come back in a human body at some point. Might take all of WOW for him to get out of pooch form though.

[MadFox]

It can, but that means either Sansa or Tyrion must apply for it themselves with the High Septon, probably in person (judging as well on how proper the new sparrow High Septon is, he will probably want to adhere to the rules).

Which could be tricky since both of them are wanted for Joffrey's murder.

Until Sansa is cleared of the charges for Joff's murder, she will have a very hard time coming out in the open and will have to remain married to Tyrion and cannot be married to Harry the Heir. Alayne Stone could, but that is not the point of the plan tho, so I doubt LF would get that done until Sansa has been released somehow. (Personally I am quite looking forward to LF trying to bribe the new, very religious High Septon.) At the moment, being married to Tyrion is Sansa's strongest plot armour against being bartered on the meat market, so to speak.

On LF I think how he will bribe the very religious High Septon is quit simple: If you remove the marriage from Sansa I can make sure that the north beens its knee to the seven or something along those lines. Will it work is the true question maybe; maybe not.

[Darth Rivers]

i think that when they arrive at moat caulin jon will learn that R+L=J then they will declare for him even stannis.

While the Northmen would no doubt declare for Jon in that case, why would Stannis? The Targaryens have no legal claim to the throne. Stannis is the only rightful heir.

Hence why I hate the Starks - they will betray my favorite character.

[Gobiel]

While the Northmen would no doubt declare for Jon in that case, why would Stannis? The Targaryens have no legal claim to the throne. Stannis is the only rightful heir.

Hence why I hate the Starks - they will betray my favorite character.

You hate the Starks, yet Eddard died because of that allegiance to Stannis.

[Scipio Africanus]

You hate the Starks, yet Eddard died because of that allegiance to Stannis.

:D

Catelyn also tried to reconcile the brothers and if she had been succesful Robb would've mostly likely at the very least allied with them against the Lannisters.

Now you see where hate leads to, a clouded judgement. ;)

[Darth Rivers]

You hate the Starks, yet Eddard died because of that allegiance to Stannis.

Eddard was one Stark. The rest will betray him without a second thought. Or rather, their lords will.

How else could Jon or Rickon become king?

[Gobiel]

Eddard was one Stark. The rest will betray him without a second thought. Or rather, their lords will.

How else could Jon or Rickon become king?

They are not sure/do not even know about the incest, and they have not been to KL. Therefore, they do not betray him as they never were 'with' him.

What makes you think that they even want to become kings ? Your hatred for the Starks is... queer at the least.

[Darth Rivers]

They are not sure/do not even know about the incest, and they have not been to KL. Therefore, they do not betray him as they never were 'with' him.

What, now? Manderly made it quite clear to Davos that he'd support Stannis if he gets Rickon back. The mountain clans, the Mormonts and the Glovers support Stannis as well.

What makes you think that they even want to become kings ? Your hatred for the Starks is... queer at the least.

I like Stannis. A lot. But he will have to die in order for Jon to assume the Iron Throne or Rickon to become king in the North. I already distrusted the Northmen in ADWD knowing that they'd most likely backstab Stannis and crown Rickon, but R+L=J sealed the deal. There is no way Stannis can survive TWOW thanks to the Starks.

[Born amidst salt and smoke]

Doesn't someone need to legitimise Jon before he can hold any power outside the watch ? I think the Vale will rally to Sansa, many were angry with Lysa for not supporting Robb so here's their chance. I can see Ramsey's forces fleeing south only to find Howland Reed waiting in his marshes ready to pick them off. Maybe the forces get surrounded, Wyman's fleet could be used to ferry a Vale army North. Bryden and Cat meet up, then everyone meets up at Greywater Watch, Howland reveals what he knows and Stannis', the Riverlands and the northern army decide whether to move south once more or North against the true enemy. Howland will also reveal the whereabouts of Bran here too.

[Grail King]

What, now? Manderly made it quite clear to Davos that he'd support Stannis if he gets Rickon back. The mountain clans, the Mormonts and the Glovers support Stannis as well.

I like Stannis. A lot. But he will have to die in order for Jon to assume the Iron Throne or Rickon to become king in the North. I already distrusted the Northmen in ADWD knowing that they'd most likely backstab Stannis and crown Rickon, but R+L=J sealed the deal. There is no way Stannis can survive TWOW thanks to the Starks.

He made it clear he support Stannis if he returned his LIEGE LORD, that isn't technically Rickon, Manderly knows BOTH Bran and Rickon survived, also the lidell's and other clans know Bran is alive.

[Cersei of the Kingsguard]

..... sansa will marry harry the heir after a tragic accident befalls sweet robin. this will unite the eerie with winterfell and riverrun (as she is also a tully). when rikon appears, mannerly will begin to notify the northern lords that a stark still lives, and this will eventually lead to a rebellion against the boltons and hopefully the freys. ....

this is far off theory - u rly think little finger will unite all those to bring starks beck .

that man single handly kept vale away from Robb (thu vale wanted to join him)

or that he will sansa stay married to harry ? she looks just like her mother ofc he wants her for himself .

(soz for crap grammar)

[The Frosted King]

Its well known that Bran is a cripple who likely won't ever father any sons or daughters.

Thats the reason why Manderly wants Rickon.

Bran is no good, since his eventual death throws the north into potential civil war.

[NotSoSilentSister]

I'm pretty sure all the Stark kids will have to team up to prevent the zombie-apoklypse. But reuniting them won't be a matter of mere logistics. Right now, every one of them is under the influence (or at least in the sphere of influence) of some pretty shady figures - Melisandre, Littlefinger, Bloodraven, the Faceless Men ... And all of them are on the brink of losing their identity.

For dramatic purposes, I predict that before there's a big reunion, we'll get a scenario where those shady inluences will try to pit the Stark kids against each other. And that will be the test for each of them - continue on their path to power with the support of these allies or rediscover their Stark roots and denounce those new affiliations.

It's easy to see with Sansa and Rickon. Sansa can't just dispose of the army of the Vale as she pleases even if she marries Harry. Because it's going to be Harry, who'll be the Lord of the Vale, and he will owe Littlefinger for putting him there. LF however is much more likely to send that army against Stannis, to contest Rickon's claim and install Sansa as the Lady of Winterfell. We could easily have a scenario where the knights of the Vale fight Stannis and the Northmen over the succesion for Winterfell. In order to avoid that Sansa will have to get rid off LF (and maybe Harry too. Or get rid of LF before marrying Harry and marry Sweet Robin instead, or something. I'm pretty sure the Harry-thing won't work out as planned anyway). So that's Sansa's test: Reject LF and whatever husband he finds for her.

Bran and Jon are obvious too. If Melisande has a hand in bringing back Jon, he might be quite a bit more under her spell for a while than he used to be. And Mel thinks that Bran and Bloodraven are the enemies. She might well try to get Jon to take steps against them, and be that only cutting down every weirwood he comes across. Old Jon as we knew him would never do that, but who knows how he'll come back. He might at least consider it more seriously after Red Priest Magic has restored his life. So that will be his test: he'll have to ditch Mel and must not buy into the whole AA prophecy; if Jon starts to view himself as AA reborn we'll have a problem on the Bran front and on the Stannis front too. Then again, ditching Mel might well necessitate ditching Stannis anyway.

But Bran might have to emancipate himself from Bloodraven too, regardless of Mel being right about his association with the Great Other. I don't buy into Mel's framework of "Rhollor = good / the Great Other = bad", but I think the reverse is just as unlikely. And think that Mel is right about the fact that the Others have to be stopped from invading Westeros, whether they are utterly evil or not. Bran is most endangered of getting a bit drunk with power right now - he's already abusing it by slipping into Hodor. I'm sure there will be a test for Bran too, a scenario where he'll have to choose between Bloodraven's agenda, whatever it may be, and the Stark cause.

Arya is the piece of the puzzles most difficult to fit in right now. I can't see yet who she will be supposed to antagonize. Sansa and Jon would both be pretty poignant. I think it's pretty likely that the FM will send her to kill someone close to either Jon or Sansa (in the sense that it would screw over Jon or Sansa if that person were killed - maybe Stannis? maybe Mel? maybe LF before the time is right to get rid of LF? or Dany, after Dany has allied with one of them?). And that will be Arya's test. Most people seem to believe that Arya will leave the FM rather sooner then latter and go with Massey to the Wall, but I suspect that would be too easy, not sufficiently dramatic - I think troll Martin might like to leave us hanging over her choice for a while.

But in general I think those are going to be the cliffhangers of WOW - it will get quite a bit bleaker still before there's light. By the end of WOW we will have all the Starks on a collision course and have to fear for every single one going over to the dark side.

[Ned Stark's Ghost]

@NotSoSilentSister

Love the analysis, i can definitely see the dilemma for each happening.

One thing nobody mentioned though was that Jaquen H'Ghar turned up in Oldtown, looking for the key. Sam is also there, learning to become a Maester. Arya's mission may have something to do with this, rather than simply running away to the wall??

I think Bran's dilemma will be the closest fought and longest running. Being crippled and stranded in the North, added to the fact that he is quite enjoying himself, means that his dilemma will depend on the result of others. (small "o" :P). Something will either draw his attention back south of the Wall (i.e. action in Winterfell), or mel will seriously piss off Bloodraven (who she sees as the "Great Other") and it will result in the two pawns head to head, i.e. Bran and Jon.

What do ye think?

[NotSoSilentSister]

@NotSoSilentSister

Love the analysis, i can definitely see the dilemma for each happening.

One thing nobody mentioned though was that Jaquen H'Ghar turned up in Oldtown, looking for the key. Sam is also there, learning to become a Maester. Arya's mission may have something to do with this, rather than simply running away to the wall??

I think Bran's dilemma will be the closest fought and longest running. Being crippled and stranded in the North, added to the fact that he is quite enjoying himself, means that his dilemma will depend on the result of others. (small "o" :P). Something will either draw his attention back south of the Wall (i.e. action in Winterfell), or mel will seriously piss off Bloodraven (who she sees as the "Great Other") and it will result in the two pawns head to head, i.e. Bran and Jon.

What do ye think?

Arya being sent to Oldtown could actually make a lot of sense...

People often speculate that someone will hire or has already hired the FM to assassinate Dany's dragons and Jaquen's purpose in Oldtown is to find out how the Maesters of the Citadel did it.

I've never liked that theory, because I predict that the FM will ultimately end up supporting Dany to promote her anti-slavery mission. The FM claim to be big on social justice, they operate on a sliding scale...the sacrifice required does not have to amount to a certain sum of money, it just has to be ruinous for the client. Of course that might just be window-dressing and in the end, they are all about the money after all. But somehow I think they are legit. Somehow I think they really walk the talk. That would make them natural allies for Dany. The fact that they have not assassinated her yet - surely some of Dany's enemeis are desperate enough to be willing to pay any price by now, so demand was probably not the issue - indicates to me that they probably never will.

So what if Jaquen was not sent to find out how to kill dragons? What if he was sent to stop those who killed all the dragons last time?

Arguments in favor of Arya's involvement in that potential storyline:

- She could reconnect with Jaquen! That would please a lot of readers, I'd assume.

- She can make use of all her hard-won spymaster skills to get intel on Citadel plots.

- She can meet Sam and get news of Jon, which might motivate her to rediscover her Stark roots and ditch the FM to join her silblings for the endgame.

Arguments against Arya's invovlement in that potential storyline:

- doesn't really fit into the notion of the Stark silblings being pit against each other. Sam is on Dany's side too, he is pro-dragon. if not for some terrible misunderstanding, Arya probably won't be assigned to murder him. They are more likely to team up.There could be a conflict later on: Dany vs Jon (eg. if Dany marches against Stannis), or Dany vs Sansa (if Sansa is married to Aegon for instance), but then Arya's involvement would be pretty indirect. (then again the big tragic stark vs stark showdown might be reserved for A Dream of Spring anyway and Oldtown makes for a good stop on the way).

[Ned Stark's Ghost]

If it does end up as Dany vs Jon though could that be "The Song of Ice and Fire"? Targ = fire, Stark = ice?

Pretty weak connection I know, I tend to believe the Song refers to Rh'llor vs Great Other, as all the other religions seem to have some connection to these two. Is a possibility though :dunno:

I agree about the FM being on Danys side though ... considering the Sorrowful Men have already tried, and the FM have the greatest reputation. Makes sense they would have turned it down.

FM trying to save the dragons could work, however I'm about 90% sure there is a completely different reason which will become very important very soon. If that was the only reason for them being in Oldtown, why introduce characters like the Sphinx, and why describe the workings of the citadel in that kind of detail?

Glad everybody doesn't believe she will randomly decide to sail to the wall anyway :P

[White Rose]

In the end, all people will be affected by the others and head north to defeat them:

- Arya, having teamed up with Dorne to head North, will marry the guy Myrcellas betrothed to (cant think of his name!), as Myrcella died of her face cut and her imposter is already in place. ~I like that the women in Dorne are not bound by the traditional restrictions on females and Arya will fit in nicely with the sand snakes, hence Arya will be Warden of The South.

- Bran, will need to leave his tree for some reason, whether to break away from Bloodraven or save someone IDK, and end up becoming the Lord of Winterfell, and be Warden of The North.

- Rickon, Davos will get him and take him to Manderly, get the Tully support and with Blackfish as his advisor (has vale friends and support), become the Warden of the East.

- Sansa will Kill LF to be free of his bad ways, met back up with Tyrion and become Warden of the West.

- Uncle Ben IS Coldhands, affected by the Others and the cold, but with his warg powers does not lose himself and become undead, rather he is the living dead, and will stay beyond the wall to ensure that after the others are defeated, dont come back.

- Jon will be revealed as R+L=J by Reed, A become King!!

-Cat/Stoneheart can just go die already, I didnt like her as Cat, and she is even worse as Stoneheart!

[NotSoSilentSister]

FM trying to save the dragons could work, however I'm about 90% sure there is a completely different reason which will become very important very soon. If that was the only reason for them being in Oldtown, why introduce characters like the Sphinx, and why describe the workings of the citadel in that kind of detail?

Because certain elements of the Citadel are probably already working on getting the Dragons killed again (more at the research stage right now) and they won't readily reveal themselves. I expect some inter-institutional infighting between the Pro-Magic and Anti-Magic Factions in the Citadel. Finding out who really pulls the strings at the Citadel will be just as difficult as in King's Landing. Just waltzing in and assassinating the potential dragon killer probably won't work, because it will be difficult enough to find out who is working on that particular project right now.

[Billywitchdr]

Martin has spent far too much time building up the others for them not to be a monstrous force of reckoning in the next two books(rigth from the first book's first chapter). And the Winter has arrived as one of the last Ravens reported. The periods of winter of old lasted for decades i believe, and I really think the Starks will come of age in this period, and even, that he may skip ahead some years. The snows will allow the Wights and others to descend very far south of the wall.

I expect the Others to ravage the north and move into the south pretty far before Bran, Jon (as AA) or Dany can make much difference. The rest of the realm will be so busy fighting each other. Alot of damage will be done before the realm rallys behind someone who can stop them. Hopefully Rickon, and Sansa will be well out of the way. And i assume they will be seeing as how Sansa is being groomed to play the game of thrones.

I also dont believe Brann will ever leave the north from where he is now. His role is to be the greenseer, and to help in his capacity from there.

[Ned Stark's Ghost]

-Cat/Stoneheart can just go die already, I didnt like her as Cat, and she is even worse as Stoneheart!

:agree:

I also dont believe Brann will ever leave the north from where he is now. His role is to be the greenseer, and to help in his capacity from there.

I agree he is a green seer and has been destined to be this since his fall, however i would hope he would operate from the winterfell weirwood? It seemed rather important at the time that the godswood was left untouched.