Sansa and LF's land grab!

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Any love would be Stockholm Syndromesque

It wouldn't be stockholme syndrome if she loved him and wanted to have lots of sex and babies.

and she isn't going to enter into a relationship because she wants to have lots of sex, if that's what she wanted she could ask Littlefinger for a position in his brothel - He kindly accommodated Jeyne Poole when she asked :) As far as the naming children after siblings go, like you say Sansa isn't a model sister - But, she came from a respectable family it would seem a hollow effort to name the what would be psychologically flawed

since when is intelligence a flaw?

off-spring

I don't think you understand how genetics work. Petyr seems to be have been effected a late childhood trauma, there's nothing genetic about. Beside she should want all of her children to be like Petyr. I like Petyr, her inability to recognize how awesome Petyr is, only makes me like Sansa less, right along with here inability to recognize how awesome, Jon, Arya, Sandor and Tyrion are. All while Sansa, herself, is a worthless piece of shit.

of Petyr after them (dysfunctional relationships, dysfunctional children) That's why I think your view of the world is hilarious, because you think any of these scenarios are okay..

what scenarios?

[Castel]

Any love would be Stockholm Syndromesque

It is a very deep hole to jump into when you start classifying love and picking out which types of love you like or are acceptable to you. Perhaps the Stockholm victim is just as in love as a normal person? Perhaps that person can exercise free will?

[Petyr Middlefinger Baelish]

After reading through this thread, I think I can sum it up in two sentences:

"Haters gonna hate."

and

"Baelish gonna Bael."

[Jayaris]

It wouldn't be stockholme syndrome if she loved him and wanted to have lots of sex and babies.since when is intelligence a flaw? I don't think you understand how genetics work. Petyr seems to be have been effected a late childhood trauma, there's nothing genetic about. Beside she should want all of her children to be like Petyr. I like Petyr, her inability to recognize how awesome Petyr is, only makes me like Sansa less, right along with here inability to recognize how awesome, Jon, Arya, Sandor and Tyrion are. All while Sansa, herself, is a worthless piece of shit. what scenarios?

As I said, your view of the world is hilarious.

It is a very deep hole to jump into when you start classifying love and picking out which types of love you like or are acceptable to you. Perhaps the Stockholm victim is just as in love as a normal person? Perhaps that person can exercise free will?

I don't care for free will philosophy, I don't doubt the emotions may be as strong if not stronger. It's the means not the end that taints it for me..

If that makes me unreasonable so be it, frankly I would rather judge harshly than not at all.

[ElizaMartell]

When did Littlefinger's Lash get a twin? :eek:

[Tumnas the Torpid]

Petyr Baelish is Azor Ahai reborn. I think he may also be Jesus.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

When did Littlefinger's Lash get a twin? :eek:

We are Baelish. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

As I said, your view of the world is hilarious.

I don't care for free will philosophy, I don't doubt the emotions may be as strong if not stronger. It's the means not the end that taints it for me..

If that makes me unreasonable so be it, frankly I would rather judge harshly than not at all.

Yeah and I asked what exactly about it is hilarious? And what scenarios are you talking about? And I who said I thought anything was "OK". I neither think things are OK or not OK, they are. Just as its not my view of the world, the world is, I just look and see. As Sandor said, I'm honest, its the world that's awful.

I don't expect Sansa to fall in love with Petyr and want to have lots of sex and babies (that's a line from love actually by the way, and is meant to be amusing) Sansa is vapid and superficial, I wouldn't expect her to appreciate anyone subtle. But obviously, its possible she could fall in love with him, she would need to be a different person and I would probably like that person.

Funny how? What? You mean, let me understand this ... cuz I ... maybe its me, maybe I'm a little fucked up maybe. I'm funny how, I mean funny, like I'm a clown? I amuse you. I make you laugh? I'm here to fuckin' amuse you?

Whattya you mean funny? Funny how? How am I funny?You mean, let me understand this ... cuz I ... maybe its me, maybe I'm a little fucked up maybe. I'm funny how, I mean funny, like I'm a clown? I amuse you. I make you laugh? I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? Whattya you mean funny? Funny how? How am I funny?

No, no I don't know. You said it. How do I know? You said I'm funny. (yelling now) How the fuck am I funny? What the fuck is so funny about me? Tell me. Tell me what's funny?

[Castel]

I don't care for free will philosophy, I don't doubt the emotions may be as strong if not stronger. It's the means not the end that taints it for me..

If that makes me unreasonable so be it, frankly I would rather judge harshly than not at all.

I honestly have no idea what this means. What means in this case? Seriously, I have no idea what means you mean. You feel entirely comfortable deciding for people whether their love is right or wrong or whatever? Seriously? And to the point that you would judge harshly? Okay then.

[Stoned Dragon]

It is a very deep hole to jump into when you start classifying love and picking out which types of love you like or are acceptable to you. Perhaps the Stockholm victim is just as in love as a normal person? Perhaps that person can exercise free will?

No. Sorry, you can't play the slippery slope when the question is "Do you think the love between a young, impressionable girl [who escapes duress to a fortified castle in the sky, where she's forced to fight off sexual advances, assume a new identity, and participate in a murder] and the lecherous, power obsessed man who deflowered and murdered her aunt is healthy?" Stockholm Syndrome is a mental disorder that impedes rational thought, and "love" that happens in the state is, in actuality, really just rape.

[Howling Mad]

That said, I don't think it matters what LF is planning, since he himself said that sometimes even the humblest pawns will not do what you want them to, and as soon as Sansa learns that LF betrayed her father to his death, he is a dead man walking due to Chekov's Smoking Hairnet.

Does Sansa still have the hairnet? I may have missed that.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

No. Sorry, you can't play the slippery slope when the question is "Do you think the love between a young, impressionable girl [who escapes duress to a fortified castle in the sky, where she's forced to fight off sexual advances, assume a new identity, and participate in a murder] and the lecherous, power obsessed man who deflowered and murdered her aunt is healthy?" Stockholm Syndrome is a mental disorder that impedes rational thought, and "love" that happens in the state is, in actuality, really just rape.

who said anything about that state? one presumes if loved him and wanted to have lots of sex and babies, she wouldn't be forced to fight of anything nor would escaping duress be the motivation for her being with him. Also, she says shes an adult.

The only one in that castle who's been raped to date, is Petyr.

You enticed him, just as your mother did that night at Riverrun, with her smiles and her dancing. You think I could forget? That was the night I stole up to his bed to give him comfort. I bled, but it was the sweetest hurt. He told me loved me then, but he called me Cat, just before he fell back to sleep. Even so, I stayed with him until the sky began to lighten. You mother did not deserve him.

Stockholm Syndrome is a mental disorder that impedes rational thought.

How does that distinguish it from love?

[Tumnas the Torpid]

The only one in that castles who been raped to date, is Petyr.

You enticed him, just as your mother did that night at Riverrun, with her smiles and her dancing. You think I could forget? That was the night I stole up to his bed to give him comfort. I bled, but it was the sweetest hurt. He told me loved me then, but he called me Cat, just before he fell back to sleep. Even so, I stayed with him until the sky began to lighten. You mother did not deserve him.

I had not considered this angle. While you are technically correct, when Littlefinger tells this story, it goes, "I had both their maidenheads." I doubt Baelish himself thinks he was raped, or suffered any trauma from that particular event.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

I had not considered this angle. While you are technically correct, when Littlefinger tells this story, it goes, "I had both their maidenheads." I doubt Baelish himself thinks he was raped, or suffered any trauma from that particular event.

I believe they call that Stockholm Syndrome

[Tumnas the Torpid]

To get back to the spirit of the OP, does anyone have any thoughts on Petyr's endgame with Bronze Yohn? Does Baelish intend to just pull out all his claws, or will he try to co-opt him, somehow? If Yohn proved too problematic, would Littlefinger try to remove him from the game, and give Runestone to Nestor?

[Lummel]

yeah... and how is that different than any other liege lord in Westeros. You say this like any of the lords have any legitimacy beyond their ability to coarse and cajole others to recognize their authority.

The text shows there is there is a big difference even though the great lords may well have to coerce and cajole the lesser lords. As per Varys' riddle power lies where people perceive it to be, it's a kind of legitimacy through acceptance. The Vale lords accept Sweetrobin as their legitimate lord, they don't accept Littlefinger as such. He will always have to work through people and not everybody is as amenable as Lyn Corbray.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

The text shows there is there is a big difference

No. The text show's there's no difference. Cersei, is the Queen regardless of whether Joffrey or Tommen happen to be on the throne. At this point few believe Tommen or Joffrey are Robert Baratheon's children no even their wife, Margery. Robert Baratheon, who was a treasonous usurper. Mace Tyrell is Lord of Highgraden but Olena runs it.

even though the great lords may well have to coerce and cajole the lesser lords. As per Varys' riddle power lies where people perceive it to be, it's a kind of legitimacy through acceptance. The Vale lords accept Sweetrobin as their legitimate lord, they don't accept Littlefinger as such.

They do.

I had seven sons as well, but four are burned and dead. “Lord Sunderland is sworn to the Eyrie,” Davos said. “By rights he should deliver me to Lady Arryn.” He would stand a better chance with her than with the Lannisters, he judged. Though she had taken no part in the War of the Five Kings, Lysa Arryn was a daughter of Riverrun, and aunt to the Young Wolf. “Lysa Arryn’s dead,” Lord Godric said, “murdered by some singer.

Lord Littlefinger rules the Vale now

. Where are the pirates?” When Davos did not answer, he rapped his spoon against the table. “The Lyseni. Torrent spied their sails from Littlesister, and before him the Flints from Widow’s Watch. Orange sails, and green, and pink. Salladhor Saan. Where is he?”

Most of what he heard he’d learned in Sisterton, from Lord Godric or the denizens of the Belly of the Whale. Tywin Lannister was dead, butchered by his dwarf son; his corpse had stunk so badly that no one had been able to enter the Great Sept of Baelor for days afterward;

the Lady of the Eyrie had been murdered by a singer; Littlefinger ruled the Vale now,

but Bronze Yohn Royce had sworn to bring him down;

Balon Greyjoy had died as well, and his brothers were fighting for the Seastone Chair; Sandor Clegane had turned outlaw and was plundering and killing in the lands along the Trident; Myr and Lys and Tyrosh were embroiled in another war; a slave revolt was raging in the east.

“Fool’s talk.” Yoren spat.

“The man I heard it from, he saw it himself. A wolf big as a horse, he swore.”

“

Swearing don’t make it true, Hod,” the innkeeper said. “You keep swearing you’ll pay what you owe me, and I’ve yet to see a copper.” T

he common room erupted in laughter, and the man with the yellow hair turned red.

To get back to the spirit of the OP, does anyone have any thoughts on Petyr's endgame with Bronze Yohn?

He will always have to work through people and not everybody is as amenable as Lyn Corbray.

Most are. The rest can be brought to heel or they can join Ned Stark in the Drowned God's watery halls. For Bronze Yohn Royce, it's cake or death.

[Lummel]

Cersei is a useful point of reference for understanding Littlefinger in relation to power and authority. Cersei has status as Queen but not as Queen regnant. She has no power or authority in her own right only status due to her as the King's wife and then as mother to Kings. Cersei like Littlefinger looks to build up a power base by winning supporters and neutralising rivals but her blandishments turn out to be less successful than Littlefinger's. Power and authority come from King Bob, Joffrey or Tommen. Anybody who is accepted as their Hand has more power and authority than Cersei.

Everything that Littlefinger seeks to do can only be achieved through coercion, his authority isn't accepted either automatically or absolutely. Given time he might reach a stage when his authority is accepted - King Bob certainly did, eventually and within certain bounds, we shall see whether Littlefinger has that amount of time available to him.

The nature of power and authority is one of the themes in the book, so I'm sure it is something we will see more of in the rest of the series.

[Castel]

To get back to the spirit of the OP, does anyone have any thoughts on Petyr's endgame with Bronze Yohn? Does Baelish intend to just pull out all his claws, or will he try to co-opt him, somehow? If Yohn proved too problematic, would Littlefinger try to remove him from the game, and give Runestone to Nestor?

On Bronze Yohn, better to do nothing, without the other Lords Declarant he's weak and killing him would only arouse suspicion, better to get rid of his supports, the people that were amenable to Petyr in the confrontation and who already have people invested in their deaths, that way no one can claim that he's doing in his enemies, something he couldn't handle as well as strong nobles or knights.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Cersei is a useful point of reference for understanding Littlefinger in relation to power and authority. Cersei has status as Queen but not as Queen regnant. She has no power or authority in her own right only status due to her as the King's wife and then as mother to Kings. Cersei like Littlefinger looks to build up a power base by winning supporters and neutralising rivals but her blandishments turn out to be less successful than Littlefinger's. Power and authority come from King Bob, Joffrey or Tommen. Anybody who is accepted as their Hand has more power and authority than Cersei.

Cersei is a good point of reference but not in the way you suggest. Cersei has authority as Queen Regent but she isn't the mother of two kings. She's the bother of three bastards from her brother. Something which virtually everyone knows but ignores because it suits their purpose. Surely Harry Swift has less authority than Cersei, Ned Stark has less authority as well, feel free to ask his disembodied head, if you don't believe me. Tommen has less authority than Joffrey and Lady Hornwood had all the authority in the world except the authority not to eat her fingers.

Everything that Littlefinger seeks to do can only be achieved through coercion, his authority isn't accepted either automatically or absolutely..

No one's authority is accepted automatically or absolutely.

Given time he might reach a stage when his authority is accepted - King Bob certainly did, eventually and within certain bounds, we shall see whether Littlefinger has that amount of time available to him.

He already has, as the failure of the Lords Declarant and their decreasing influence and number indicates.

The nature of power and authority is one of the themes in the book, so I'm sure it is something we will see more of in the rest of the series

You don't say? The Game of Thrones is about nature the of power and authority? Who would have thunk it?