When Did Daenerys Targaryen Become Your Favourite Character?

[BabyMeraxes]

Like this or this?

ETA Viseryon.

Exactly like that. I might make my pug Drogon this year for Halloween

[BabyMeraxes]

Because dragon- pugs keep tormenting my wolf at the dog park!

ETA: Winter'sNight- well done.

Fire and Treats.

[The Mother of The Others]

probably when she sparked the slave revolt

[Fire and Blood!]

Really? She should have saved Viserys, so he could go on threatening to kill her and child? No offense to you, but I say damn Viserys to the deepest of the seven hells, or whatever it is.

With regards to Jon: perhaps a "Stark born and bred" on the Iron Throne is just what the Maester ordered, in terms of surviving a long winter. Nevertheless, I'd much rather see Daenerys sit the Throne.

Well yes she should have, she could have had him banished and he would have never threatened her or her child again(I don't think he would have harmed her anyway but still).After all he wasn't just Viserys who insulted her he was her brother who raised her from a child.Maybe Drogo would have killed him anyway even if she tried to save him and if that was the case I would not have thought less of her, but she did no such thing.

At least we can agree that we both would perfer Daynerys on the Iron Throne rather than Jon, right?

[Winter's Knight]

Well yes she should have, she could have had him banished and he would have never threarened her or her child again(I don't think he would have harmed her anyway but still).After all he wasn't just Viserys who insulted her he was her brother who raised her from a child.Maybe Drogo would have killed him anyway even if she tried to save him and if that was the case I would not have thought less of her, but she did no such thing.

At least we can agree that we both would perfer Daynerys on the Iron Throne rather than Jon, right?

He was also the brother who used to molest her and beat her.

There is also evidence that he tormented her mentally and emotionally.

[Euphail]

Well yes she should have, she could have had him banished and he would have never threarened her or her child again(I don't think he would have harmed her anyway but still).After all he wasn't just Viserys who insulted her he was her brother who raised her from a child.Maybe Drogo would have killed him anyway even if she tried to save him and if that was the case I would not have thought less of her, but she did no such thing.

At least we can agree that we both would perfer Daynerys on the Iron Throne rather than Jon, right?

Dany needs Westeros Lords to conquer Westeros. How can she claim Westeros while Viserys is still alive? At best she would cause division between the Lords if Viserys was still alive. I think specifically of Daemon Blackfyre being imprisoned by Bloodraven rather than executed. She would have no claim to the throne while her brother was still alive.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

Well yes she should have, she could have had him banished and he would have never threarened her or her child again(I don't think he would have harmed her anyway but still).After all he wasn't just Viserys who insulted her he was her brother who raised her from a child.Maybe Drogo would have killed him anyway even if she tried to save him and if that was the case I would not have thought less of her, but she did no such thing.

That's right, he wasn't...He was Viserys who molested her, beat and threatened to beat her. Viserys who "raised" her in an escalating cycle of abuse which culminated with his sword pointed at her pregnant stomach. I believe that, by threatening to kill her offspring, Viserys forfeited the right to her sisterly altruism, which he should be repaying in kind by seeking to preserve and protect her child.

At least we can agree that we both would perfer Daynerys on the Iron Throne rather than Jon, right?

Just so.

[oba]

Dany needs Westeros Lords to conquer Westeros. How can she claim Westeros while Viserys is still alive? At best she would cause division between the Lords if Viserys was still alive. I think specifically of Daemon Blackfyre being imprisoned by Bloodraven rather than executed. She would have no claim to the throne while her brother was still alive.

Something I found interesting on a re-read is that, even before Viserys' death, Dany had already started to think of her unborn child (who she presumed to be a son) as the heir to the Iron Throne and not Viserys. She doesn't think that way all the time and never states it out loud, but, consciously or not, there were signs she'd already written off Viserys even before Drogo "crowned" him.

[LifeRuiner]

Like this or this?

ETA Viseryon.

Haha, BabyMeraxes and Winter's Knight, you've made my day!

[Fire and Blood!]

That's right, he wasn't...He was Viserys who molested her, beat and threatened to beat her. Viserys who "raised" her in an escalating cycle of abuse which culminated with his sword pointed at her pregnant stomach. I believe that, by threatening to kill her offspring, Viserys forfeited the right to her sisterly altruism, which he should be repaying in kind by seeking to preserve and protect her child.

I don't remember Viserys molesting her.As for the beating I happen to have a sister myself only in our case she is 3 years older than me, before I became considerably stronger than her we fought regulary and later there were a few ocasions in which I would have beat her if not for my parents, so I don't look at it as that big of a deal but rather something to be expected.Considering that Daenerys herself misses Viserys later on I would say he wasn't always that bad of a brother.

[Nymphetamine]

I don't remember Viserys molesting her.As for the beating I happen to have a sister myself only in our case she is 3 years older than me, before I became considerably stronger than her we fought regulary and later there were a few ocasions in which I would have beat her if not for my parents, so I don't look at it as that big of a deal but rather something to be expected.Considering that Daenerys herself misses Viserys later on I would say he wasn't always that bad of a brother.

Viserys did twist her nipple that one time.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

I don't remember Viserys molesting her.As for the beating I happen to have a sister myself only in our case she is 3 years older than me, before I became considerably stronger than her we fought regulary and later there were a few ocasions in which I would have beat her if not for my parents, so I don't look at it as that big of a deal but rather something to be expected.Considering that Daenerys herself misses Viserys later on I would say he wasn't always that bad of a brother.

I doubt highly that whatever passed between you and your sister was violence of the same character as Viserys's. Nevertheless, even if it was, the relevant differences are a)you had parents there to prevent either of you from going too far, and b)you probably would not have decided you needed to murder your sister, pregnant or otherwise. That Daenerys is capable of feeling remorse over Viserys redounds to her own moral benefit, not her brother's.

As to the molestation, I judge all of Viserys's nipple-twisting and pinching to have a sexual component.

[Fire and Blood!]

I doubt highly that whatever passed between you and your sister was violence of the same character as Viserys's. Nevertheless, even if it was, the relevant differences are a)you had parents there to prevent either of you from going too far, and B)you probably would not have decided you needed to murder your sister, pregnant or otherwise. That Daenerys is capable of feeling remorse over Viserys redounds to her own moral benefit, not her brother's.

As to the molestation, I judge all of Viserys's nipple-twisting and pinching to have a sexual component.

Yes and that is precisely why I think his was an empty threat.The ideia that someone would ever harm let alone murder his/her brother/sister is just unimaginable to me.Maybe you are right and I am thinking of Viserys as a better person than he is ment to be.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

Yes and that is precisely why I think his was an empty threat.The ideia that someone would ever harm let alone murder his/her brother/sister is just unimaginable to me.Maybe you are right and I am thinking of Viserys as a better person than he is ment to be.

We can never know whether Viserys actually intended to carry through on his threat - but anyone with an interest in protecting Daenerys or her child would have to take him seriously, because of the naked steel in his hand.

Even if Viserys were (hypothetically) not the kind of person who would normally murder his sister (sororicide?), he was fucking shit-hammered. He might have killed her in a drunken rage; hell, he might have killed her accidentily if he stumbled whilst menacing her with his sword.

[Parwan]

... And considering the clusterf**k that Westeros has become, I am hoping that she gains followers, if she ever gets her butt in gear and decides to head westward...(my only issue with her, really)

You touch on an important point in the part that I underlined. I think that our concerns are usually too much with characters and too little with the general situation. This is natural, but it has some unfortunate results. We get a lot of "Dany is a bitch...Sansa is a spoiled brat...Stannis is a hypocrite...Ned was a fool..." I'd say it comes to this: There are many things going wrong, but people see them as a series of single-point failures. Actually, there are some severe systemic problems. The Seven Kingdoms can be seen as a high fantasy version of a failed state. It might not matter much who sits the iron throne when the entire system is clusterf*d. This is worthy of a separate thread. Maybe I'll start one.

...

What I'd like to see in her future is something awesome but not obvious. I'd rather see her on a dragon than on a throne, and in a confrontation with the Others than with the already embattled Westeros. Meeting with Jon and Tyrion would be an absolute cherry on top, and most of all, for her to find a home, with red door or without it.

One of the systemic problems that I referred to above is the tendency for seven kingdom's people to see the solution to all problems in terms of the "who is the true monarch?" question. Winter is coming on. This will probably be a very bad one, perhaps the worst in several centuries. People are going to freeze. People are going to starve. What is the solution?? Draw swords! Couch lances! Charge! Put our man (or woman) on the throne. Kill all the bastards who oppose us. A real problem with Daenerys is essentially the same problem that every other claimant to the throne has. She wants to launch another invasion. That is not what Westeros needs. Dany at times does seem open to negotiations. Certainly it is not the case that she will necessary oppose "Aegon" (even if he can't be proven to be really Aegon).

Part of the problem is a narrative one. Battles are interesting. Peace conferences that lead to compromise are not. Still, I'd like to see some characters who at least show more willingness to talk to their enemies. If Dany can learn to ease off on the Usurper's dogs business a bit, she could be such a character.

[Hamilton]

When she became Queen of Westeros in the last book thus setting the internet ablaze in angry comments for decades to come.

[LifeRuiner]

You touch on an important point in the part that I underlined. I think that our concerns are usually too much with characters and too little with the general situation.

One of the systemic problems that I referred to above is the tendency for seven kingdom's people to see the solution to all problems in terms of the "who is the true monarch?" question. Winter is coming on.

I agree and I absolutely do not care who gets to sit on the Iron Throne. If there is an Iron Throne after this winter. Some pretenders may be better people or have better claim but all this should be eclipsed by the bigger picture: winter is coming. This is the real story.

And I wish Barristan told Dany more about the real situation in Westeros and introduced her to the other side of the story because she always ended up hearing him. He might not have been the best person for the role of an all-around mentor, so hopefully Tyrion will fill these shoes. I'm sure that her character will keep growing and that the Mereen detour served as a lesson - if simply because it has no point otherwise.

[Aslerys]

^^That would be fun to watch! I can only imagine... :laugh:

[Queen Cersei I]

I don't remember Viserys molesting her.As for the beating I happen to have a sister myself only in our case she is 3 years older than me, before I became considerably stronger than her we fought regulary and later there were a few ocasions in which I would have beat her if not for my parents, so I don't look at it as that big of a deal but rather something to be expected.Considering that Daenerys herself misses Viserys later on I would say he wasn't always that bad of a brother.

Viserys was, in fact, going to rape Danerys. Illario notes in book five to Tyrion that, the night before Dany's wedding to Khal Drogo, Viserys was found outside Dany's bedchamber, trying to force his way in and rape her. Illario notes that Viserys was "swearing that if he could not have her hand in marriage, he would have her maidenhead at least." Illario alson notes, "Viserys lusted for the crown, but he also lusted for Danerys.

Personally, in reading AGOT, I never caught onto this "lust" for his sister on Viserys part. Rereading the book, I still don't really see it, though clearly Viserys general abuse of Dany (the nipple twisting, for instance) took on a taunting, menacing, sexual form.

What was clear to me from the beginning, however, was how Viserys, in the mold of many abusers, seemed to view Danerys as something of an object. He sold her, he told her he'd let countless men "use" her for the right price, he comments on her developing body like it's a sexual commodity and twists her nipple just for the hell of it, (and because he can), he coldly sums up her appeal to Illario, speculating on how much he can get for her since her tits aren't quite big enough yet, etc.

I think in a way Viserys did love Danerys, but he was (due to a truly unlucky combination of circumstances and genetics) a deeply sick young man. The relationship they were in was truly unhealthy-- honestly, for both of them. But especially for Danerys, a vulnerable young woman who held no power in the relationship.

I think the fact that Viserys was entirely abusive of Danerys is clear even before we learn about his attempt to rape her and plans to be the one to take her virginity in ADWD. However, the fact that the abuse had a sexualized element, even before we learn that, was clear.

[Kittyhat]

Dany went up to the top 3 for me when she started conquering Slaver's Bay. For all this talk about thrones and wars and 5 kings, Danny is the only character who has actually conquered... anything.

This! So much this. I find it hilarious the way every thread about the "best war leader" basically ignores possibly the most successful war leader in the entire series to date.

But really, what I love about the Daenerys chapters is how relatively uplifting they are compared with much of the rest of the series. It's the same feeling I get from the Arya chapters and the Tyrion chapters. Yes, the world is a harsh and brutal place, and yes, these characters make their share of missteps in the world as well, but somehow, there's a feeling (to me at least) that these are people who manage time and again to seize a measure of control over their own fates, often against incredible odds.

Even if the series as a whole has to remain dark and morbid and brooding much of the time, it's nice to be able to get to chapters here and there where I can breathe for a moment. Where I can read about a character I feel I can believe in, even when that character isn't doing so well in that particular chapter.

And I guess the other thing I love about Daenerys, and a point I've brought up elsewhere, is that she's in some ways a uniquely feminine heroine, a heroine who relies on guile and who regards her subjects as her "children" and wants to protect them. The Mother of Dragons. In a society wherein we're constantly bombarded with the idea that masculine things are the ideal, even for women (wherein, for example, "she's got balls" could be construed as a compliment), it's rather refreshing.