HowlinHowland Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Also Dany has the greater claim over Aegon anyway. She is the daughter of Aerys and he is the grandson of Aerys. Rhaegar was never crowned king. I do not recall if anything was ever mentioned about skipping daughters in line of succession though.Maybe Im wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Also Dany has the greater claim over Aegon anyway. She is the daughter of Aerys and he is the grandson of Aerys. Rhaegar was never crowned king. I do not recall if anything was ever mentioned about skipping daughters in line of succession though.Maybe Im wrong.You are. He's the eldest son of the eldest son, his claim is better than any Targaryen, except obviously Aerys or Rhaegar himself.Not that I believe Aegon is the real deal, mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrinceOfSunspear Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The mummers dragon is exactly what it says....Varys = Mummer. He faked the death of AegonAegon = Dragon. Obvious enough.Theres no trickery here. Quaithe told her to beware them because she knows hes a threat to her claim. Nothing more nothing less. Her prophecy didn't say that all the people she warned about would wish harm on her.After all the "sun's son" aka Quentyn Martell wanted to help her and take her back to Westeros but we all know how that ended....Aegon is a real Targaryen. Of that I have no doubt. Varys put on a mummer's show during the Sack of Kings Landing and hence thats why she called him a "mummer". It in no way means that Young Griff/Aegon is a pretender.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Doug Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The mummers dragon is exactly what it says....Varys = Mummer. He faked the death of AegonAegon = Dragon. Obvious enough.Theres no trickery here. Quaithe told her to beware them because she knows hes a threat to her claim. Nothing more nothing less. Her prophecy didn't say that all the people she warned about would wish harm on her.After all the "sun's son" aka Quentyn Martell wanted to help her and take her back to Westeros but we all know how that ended....Aegon is a real Targaryen. Of that I have no doubt. Varys put on a mummer's show during the Sack of Kings Landing and hence thats why she called him a "mummer". It in no way means that Young Griff/Aegon is a pretender....Yes, the mummer in the mummer's dragon part of Quaithe's message was referring to Varys. But that does not mean that Aegon/YG is Rhaegar's son, whom we are led to believe he is. There is much about Varys we do not know. Specifically, we have no idea where his allegiances are. But we do know that he is friends with Illyrio. Aegon could just as easily be a Blackfyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungGriff the Conqueror Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yeah, hes an old KG whore. From Aerys to Robert to Joffrey to Daenerys. No loyalty there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Doug Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 The mummers dragon is exactly what it says.... Varys = Mummer. He faked the death of Aegon Aegon = Dragon. Obvious enough. Theres no trickery here. Quaithe told her to beware them because she knows hes a threat to her claim. Nothing more nothing less. Her prophecy didn't say that all the people she warned about would wish harm on her. After all the "sun's son" aka Quentyn Martell wanted to help her and take her back to Westeros but we all know how that ended.... Aegon is a real Targaryen. Of that I have no doubt. Varys put on a mummer's show during the Sack of Kings Landing and hence thats why she called him a "mummer". It in no way means that Young Griff/Aegon is a pretender.... Not necessarily, the prophecy said not to trust any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Not necessarily, the prophecy said not to trust any of them. and JoNC told aegon complete mistrust turned aerys into the mad king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Doug Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 and JoNC told aegon complete mistrust turned aerys into the mad kingThat is one thing I am confident won't happen to Danaerys. She saw the same thing happen to her brother. I'm pretty sure she noted at some point that Viserys's paranoia was without merit. That he constantly saw the 'usurper's hired knives' when there was nothing to fear. And we know as readers that there were no hired knives. Barristan knows this as well. The reason Barristan was hidden as Arstan Whitebeard for so long was so he could make sure that Dany didn't have the 'madness' in her like her brother and father. Barristan may be loyal to a fault, but i don't think he will allow her to go down that road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Stark Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 No. I dont think Barristan is too fussed about the line of succession, he wanted someone worthy of his protection, and he thinks Dany is a rightful queen, not only for her blood, but for her character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Barristan didn't just switch sides after Robert's Rebellion was over in order to save his skin, he had a real affection for Robert and was shaken when the man died. He showed no interest in seeking after Viserys until Joffrey stripped him of his position. He didn't care then about the rules of succession so much as he did following a king that he respected and admired. He gives a similar reason for why he concealed his identity with Daenerys: he wanted to make sure that the taint of madness was not in her, suggesting that if it had been, he would have left her to her own devices. Barristan rationalizes a lot to make sure that his oaths and what he wants to do are one and the same, but that doesn't mean that he's rigid in his honor. Ultimately he wants to serve the king that he likes, not the rightful king.And I think there's every reason to believe that Barristan would be wary of Aegon's entourage. Let's run through them one by one:1) Varys is a major backer of Aegon, and the story of how Aegon was saved from King's Landing is based on Varys' word alone. Barristan thinks that Varys was the cause of the rot in King's Landing under Aerys II, and is unlikely to trust Varys farther than he can throw him.2) The Golden Company was responsible for many Blackfyre rebellions, including the war of the Ninepenny Kings in which Ser Barristan killed their leader, Maelys the Monstrous. It's easy to imagine that bad blood still exists between Barristan and many members of the GC.3) Barristan would be well aware of how Jon Connington's impulsiveness led him to failure, and Connington hasn't gotten less reckless with age.I think Barristan's being set up as the one person in Dany's entourage who would be very suspicious of Aegon, with his fishy backstory and the pack of traitors that back him. And all he has to do is decide that Varys is lying, which he would have very easy to believe, and then he wouldn't owe Aegon any loyalty whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I think Barristan will be dead sooner rather than later. Mormont with a literal back stabbing anyone?If Mormont does that he'll go from one my favorite characters to one of my most hated characters, but I can see GRRM do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCube Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 not only for her blood, but for her characterThen he's gone down in my estimation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I don't get why people would even think Aegon could be false ... Tyrion worked it out with logic. Therefore it is 100% guaranteed to be true.I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but the fact that we are first introduced to Aegon via Tyrion puzzling it out makes me think that he is legit. Not rock-solid 100% but I'd bet on it even though I feel like most people are leaning the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I would be very sad if Barristan leaves Daenerys for Aegon. Didn't Illyrio have something to do with Barristan finding Belwas and then send them both to Dany? Why would Illyrio support both Dany and Aegon. Just doubling his chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Not necessarily, the prophecy said not to trust any of them.How do we know we can trust Quaithe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancePistachio Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 What is it that Melisandre (or possibly Val) said, something like "A prophecy is like a sword without a hilt"? I definitely entertain the possibility that Aegon is a false Targ but I find some people's steadfast belief in this strange.In regard to the original topic, I definitely do not believe that Barristan will suddenly defect upon hearing about Aegon, but will refuse to believe he is true. Barristan was front and center in the War of the Ninepenny Kings and knows Blackfyre pretenders all too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carn_Dum Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I would be very sad if Barristan leaves Daenerys for Aegon. Didn't Illyrio have something to do with Barristan finding Belwas and then send them both to Dany? Why would Illyrio support both Dany and Aegon. Just doubling his chances?That's the thing I haven't figured out yet about Varys and Illyrio. Everyone seems to agree they want Aegon on the throne, whether he's a Targaryen, a Blackfyre or neither. But what is their stance towards Daenerys? First Illyrio seemed to have supported Viserys/Daenerys: he could easily have gotten rid of them while they were staying with him. He also sent Dany help in the form of Barristan & Belwas. Varys on the other hand could have stopped Robert's assassination order from reaching Essos, yet he didn't. So who are Illyrio and Varys really rooting for? Daenerys, Aegon, both or neither? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitakon Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Is there a possibility that YG is the real Ned Stark bastard? Was Selmy's comment on Ashara's pregnancy hearsay or real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Ser Barristan's arc in TWOW will have far more to do with his own choices than with Daenerys, whom he may well not even meet yet. Aegon, of course, is even less likely to factor into his story for the moment.He has made the wrong alliances and judgements in Meereen and it will take a lot to atone for the blood now in his hands.After that, perhaps a couple of years later, and if Aegon is in good standing, he may well decide that he would rather support the Young Griff. Odds are good that he will have Daenerys' blessing, even. It is quite apparent that Daenerys has no great desire to hold any throne, particularly one that has better suitors ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magjee Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I dont think he will betray Dany, but maybe that will be one of the three treasons, for love? Seems odd though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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