Melifeather

I've just noticed how the descriptions of Harrenhal could also describe Howland, Arya, and Shadrich. Howland: The singing, dancing, and merriment also describe the sigil of the Knight of the Laughing Tree. Arya: The eerie silence and ghostly noises broken by the sounds of general work seem to describe Arya at the House of Black and White. Shadrich: The sounds of a roast spitting and crackling over a fire now seems to bolster the idea that Shadrich will die in a fiery furnace.

Well, I'm looking at the patterns that connect Shadrich to Howland and Arya. Shadrich is repeating some historical cycle that both Howland and Arya already experienced. Arya's cycle was nearly the opposite of Howland's, but Shadrich's cycle has so far been an alternative. Howland didn't seek human help, but he prayed for a way to win. Arya sought human help and she prayed for vengeance. Shadrich didn't pray, because he was the help. Harrenhal was bustling and full of noise for Howland, eerie and ghostly for Arya, but Shadrich seems to represent Harrenhal itself. Howland was a guest, Arya was a captive, but Shadrich is being paid for his service. There was a ransom to capture Howland. Arya held Jaqen's life ransom. Shadrich says he's looking to claim a ransom. A maiden goes missing in all three cycles. In Howland's cycle, Lyanna goes missing, someone is blamed, and the realm goes to war over it. In Arya's cycle, she's the one that goes missing. No one is blamed, because she "isn't missing". The Lannisters and Boltons substituted a fake. In Shadrich's cycle, Brienne slips away and nobody cared - Hibald's man in the stable made no move to stop her - but technically she is replaced by Sansa. The repeated cycle does suggest that Shadrich is connected to Harrenhal - at least figuratively and symbolically. In Howland's cycle the maiden was his friend. In Arya's cycle, she herself was the maiden. Shadrich's alternate cycle suggests that he's not Sansa's friend. He's just a hedge knight out to make some money. Hopefully Sansa is worth more alive than dead. Lyanna died. Arya is "no one", so symbolically she's dead, which means Sansa should live. She's already been "kidnapped" once by Petyr, so maybe, alternatively, this time the kidnapper is killed. Post script - maybe Shadrich's name hints at the means of his demise? A fiery furnace.

I guess its possible, but I have questions. The village elder's daughter's doll was a man-at-arms as were many of the Piper men that were killed. Arya ripped it open, pulled out it's "guts", and threw him in the river. That imagery would fit in with the Red Wedding. Shadrich was with Stannis at the Battle of the Blackwater, but its not clear if he was a bannerman knight of Stannis, or if he was already a hedge knight? If he escaped the Red Wedding and the rest of the Pipers were killed, wouldn't he have returned to Pinkmaiden castle to claim it as it's last living heir? Pinkmaiden bent the knee to the Lannisters, so they retained their home and helped Jaime lay siege to their former liege lord at Riverrun. If Shadrich is a Piper, then he left, because he didn't want to bend the knee to House Lannister, and became a hedge knight then.

I was thinking that there used to be another Wall at Moat Cailin and the two walls reflected off of each other. If the north is upside down, I think Lyanna was actually found near the ruins of Whitewalls which is further south from Harrenhal on the shore of the God's Eye. The real tower of joy is Maegor's Holdfast. I think Ned and Ashara are Jon's parents and that Ashara is still alive and living at home in Starfall in disguise as Wylla, just as Sansa is now Alayne. I have no reason to doubt that Daenerys is Aerys and Rhaella's child, and that together with Rhaegar and Viserys they were the "child of three" in the Prince that was Promised prophecy. I don't really have any theories about Melisandre, but I think Septa Lenore is Rhaella Targaryen. We've got seven or eight separate theories here. Just throwing them all out there for posterity!

I have a theory about the wheel of time that I call "Eating the Dragon's Tail", because it's a phrase that's mentioned in the books, and it helps me visualize the concept. I also take into consideration that the Wall is like a giant mirror. If you're facing the mirror, the reflection is actually backwards. Have you ever noticed when taking a selfie with your phone that any wording on your clothing read backwards in the pic? In mirrored Westeros, east is west and north is upside down. This is why Braavos mirrors the Riverlands, Dorne mirrors Casterly Rock's past, the Greyjoys of Iron Islands are mirroring the Blackfyre Pretender landings near Massey's Hook, and the north - which is upside down and under water - is described as a great northern sea. If you were to take an eastern House and compare it laterally to a western House, you'll discover the eastern people are finding themselves in situations very much like what happened to the western people about a generation ago. Thus the Martells are repeating what the Lannisters did prior to the Rebellion.

We might be looking at different things. I don't think Shadrich is Howland, but I do think he's repeating events that happened to Howland and Arya. Since we know what happened to Arya and we know some of the things that happened to Shadrich we might be able to fill in some blanks with regards to Howland and maybe even Lyanna. Is that what you hope to do with your exercise?

Wanna take a stab at combining and see what it looks like?

I do see additional parallels for Shadrich, for anyone that's interested... ARYA: Arya was intercepted by Sandor Clegane. First he brought her to the Twins with the intention of ransoming her to her brother, but he prevented her from going inside, because of the Red Wedding. All the while Sandor is traveling with Arya, even though she is his hostage, he treats her like his squire. The imagery is a distorted echo of Dunk and Egg. Next he decided to bring her to the Vale of Arryn to ransom her to her aunt Lysa. When they stopped at a small village a man told them the high road was full of snow and warned about the mountain clans. Sandor wonders if he can write Lysa a letter. Sandor and Arya help the man build a palisade around his home, but after its finished, the owner wants them both to leave. He knows Sandor as Joffrey's dog. The village elder's daughter is of an age with Arya, but less mature. She carries a doll - a man at arms doll - and cries if she skins her knee. Arya is sick of the girl following her around, grabs the doll, tears it open, pulls out some of the stuffing, threw it in a brook and declared, "Now he really looks like a soldier." If this is an echo of Howland and/or Lyanna, it seems implied that they met a soldier and someone took a wound to the belly and ended up in the water. After the girl stopped pestering her, Arya spent her days grooming their horses, Craven and Stranger, or sometimes she would find a stick and practice her needlework, but that would make her remember the Twins and the Red Wedding and she'd smash the stick against a tree. Sandor tells Arya that the plan now is to go to Riverrun to see if her uncle Blackfish will pay a ransom. Arya is sick of heading for Riverrun, because she's been trying to reach Riverrun for what seemed like years, and she doesn't think the Blackfish even knows who she is. Arya suggests going to the Wall, but Sandor only laughed at that. On the way to Riverrun they stop at the Inn at the Crossroads and encounter Tickler and Poliver who inform them that Riverrun is under siege. This news causes Sandor to ask if there are ships in Saltpans, but the Tickler tells Sandor he ought to return with them to Harrenhal to join his brother. The comment leads to a fight. Sandor is injured, but he and Arya manage to kill Tickler and Poliver. It's on the way to Saltpans that Sandor grows weak and Arya leaves him to die. She books passage on the Titan's Daughter using the coin Jaqen gave her, and she becomes "no one". SHADRICH: Brienne met Shadrich on the road. He was riding as hedge knight in service to a merchant named Hibald. Shadrich had served under Stannis at one time, but after the defeat on the Blackwater he had to pay a large ransom. We are to conclude this is how he ended up a hedge knight. Shadrich was escorting Hibald to Duskendale when Brienne's party came upon them. Brienne informs Hibald that she is searching for her sister (Sansa). Brienne's companions offer to ride with Hibald who in turn checks with Shadrich to see if he's OK with them joining parties, to which Shadrich says, "The one is old, t'other fat, and the big one is a woman. Let them come." This could be another distorted echo of Howland's encounter with the three squires and the Knight of the Laughing Tree's encounter with the three knights. Shadrich examines Brienne up and down and declares she's a strapping healthy wench, to which she replied, "a giant to some". Shadrich is all of 5 foot 2 inches, so his retort was that he is big enough where it counts. Shadrich explains his sigil this way: Brienne asked him if he was mad. He replies he's mad, because he runs to blood and battle. He also informs Brienne that they share a quest for Sansa Stark, tells her about Varys's ransom, and that he's only traveling with Hibald until Duskendale. He offers to share the ransom with Brienne if she wants to work together, and identifies "the fool" as Ser Dontos. They stop at The Old Stone Bridge Inn. Brienne paid for Illifer and Creighton to share a room. We come across another echo of Dunk and Egg - their first meeting at an inn when Dunk thought Egg was a stableboy. At the inn where Shadrich and Brienne are staying, a small boy offers to take Brienne's horse and mistakes her for a "ser". This is interesting, because now I have to go back and see if there's a "Shadrich" type character in the Dunc and Egg tale - someone that would be an earlier echo of Howland. Hibald pays for a room to share with Shadrich, and the rest of his party slept in the stables. At dinner they talked of Jaime and how he lost his hand, then Creighton brags that he fights just as well with either hand, to which Shadrich gets in an unnoticed dig when he replies, "Oh, I have no doubt of that." Brienne goes up to bed early, and unwraps the hidden sword, Oathkeeper. Holding Oathkeeper, she knelt and said a silent prayer to the Crone. She heard Creighton talk about a shield with a blood-red chicken and a blade dripping gore. As soon as she was sure everyone was asleep, she made her escape. Later on she worries that Shadrich is catching up with her, but it turns out to be Podrick. The next time Shadrich is on the page he's at the Gates of the Moon, newly hired as one of Petyr Baelish's knights, and introduced to Sansa. PARALLELS: Arya travels the Riverlands with Sandor as a hostage, wanting to go home or to the Wall. Shadrich is wandering the Riverlands searching for Sansa. Possible parallel for Howland: he may have also travelled the Riverlands, quite possibly alongside Lyanna. There are dual Dunk and Egg echoes in the two accounts. Arya plays Egg to Sandor's Dunk, while the stable boy at the inn (where Shadrich also stayed) offers to take Brienne's horse and called her "ser". There's an echo of Howland's treatment by the three squires and the Knight of the Laughing Tree's defeat of the three knights when Shadrich calls Brienne, Creighton, and Illifer, old, fat, and the big woman. I may be misremembering, but wasn't there a scene where Sandor eats roast chicken at one of the inns or the farmer he robs? Or was that only on the mummer's version? In Shadrich's version, Brienne hears Creighton talking about a blood-red chicken. Sandor kills Poliver and Arya kills a squire and the Tickler. At the inn where Shadrich and Brienne are staying, there is no fighting - only swapped stories of past fights, people being put to the sword, and Brienne's thoughts of heroes with famous swords. Arya was on her way to the Vale of Arryn, but Sandor's mind is changed after an encounter in an inn. Shadrich was on his way to Duskindale, but after an encounter in an inn he shows up at the Gates of the Moon in the Vale of Arryn.

I'll post my standard response for Shadrich - that's he is who he says he is. People inflate his importance, because they subconsciously recognize a pattern. I've pointed out this pattern before, but it hasn't registered. His actions are an echo of two previous "turns of the wheel": Howland, and then Arya. Pretty Pig was the first to post a comparison of Howland's actions at the Harrenhal Tourney to Arya's Weasel Soup plan. I tagged on Shadrich as the third. You can see for yourself if you are so inclined to read the following: KEY: H = Howland , A = Arya, S = Shadrich H: The castle of Harrenhal is filled with people who have arrived for the tournement. A: The castle of Harrenhal is mostly empty; the people have departed for battle. S: Shadrich has become a symbol representing Harrenhal, because of the reference to a flying mouse, which could be a bat (Lothston, Harrenhal, etc) H: A guest from a noble northern house, Howland is persuaded to sit at the table with the other guests of high birth. He mingles with the members of other northern houses. A: A captive from a noble northern house, Arya is forced to serve the people at the table, and sleep and dine in the cellar. Arya cannot mingle with members of other northern houses, because they are imprisoned in the dungeons. S: Shadrich is with Brienne when they stopped for the knight at the Old Stone Bridge Inn. His meal and stay are paid for by his employer, a merchant, while Brienne pays for herself and the two penniless hedge knights Creighton and Illifer. I guess you could say they are all staying the night with a symbol of Harrenhal. H: At Harrenhal there is singing, dancing, and merriment, sounds of people having fun. A: At Harrenhal there is eerie silence and ghostly noises broken by sounds of general work. S: There were only six locals sitting at a table at the inn when Shadrich and Brienne’s party arrived. They hear the sounds of a roast spitting and crackling over a fire. H: Howland does not actively seek aid in getting revenge upon the three squires; instead, his friends the wolf maid and the pup offer to help him (their “father’s man”) challenge the squires by providing materials/assistance. A: Arya actively seeks help in fulfilling her plan (setting free her “father’s men”) by going to Hot Pie and Gendry for materials/assistance; they refuse her. S: Ser Creighton, Ser Illifer the Penniless, and Brienne came upon a merchant who was protected by Ser Shadrich. The merchant produced a crossbow and called, “You will forgive me if I am suspicious, but the times are troubled, and I have only good Ser Shadrich to defend me. H: A young crannogman, small of stature and naïve to the ways of the big outside world. A: A young girl, small of stature and suspicious of the ways of the big outside world. S: A wiry, fox-faced man, cocksure though no more than five foot two. H: With pledges of support of his new friends, Howland goes to the lake’s edge after the night’s festivities are over, casts his gaze to the Isle of Faces with its grove of weirwoods, and “said a prayer to the old gods of north and Neck . . .” A: Without pledges of support of her old friends, Arya goes to the godswood of Harrenhal in the dark of night and says a silent prayer in front of the wicked & twisted heart tree. S: No mention of a prayer for our Ser Shadrich. You could turn this around and state that Shadrich didn't pray, but Brienne prayed to the Crone. H: Howland asks the gods for a way to win upon those who wronged him, but he won’t shame himself and his people. He desires to be brave. A: Arya desires vengeance on those who wronged her, and to restore pride to herself and her shamed (captured) people. She desires to be brave. S: Shadrich is unafraid of the three knights (Creighton, Illifer, and Brienne) who he refers to as “old”, “fat”, and “a woman”. He mocks Brienne by noting, “You’re a strapping healthy wench, I’d say.” After Brienne says, “A giant, compared to some.” He laughed. “I am big enough where it counts, wench.” He also explains that while a common mouse will run from blood and battle, a mad mouse seeks blood and battle. Brienne prayed for the Crone to light her way to Sansa. H: King Aerys offers ransom for capture of the Knight of the Laughing Tree A: Arya holds Jaqen’s life ransom until he helps her release the northern captives S: Shadrich tells Brienne he’s looking for Sansa in order to claim a ransom - Vary’s “plump bag of gold”. H: Lyanna ends up missing - Rhaegar blamed for her abduction. A: Arya escaped from Kings Landing. No one blamed. She escaped by disguising herself as a boy. S: Brienne has gone missing, but she's only hiding from Shadrich.

I never noticed the little rhyme before, the Dayne turning into Snow. Cute. Happy Thanksgiving, all.

Whenever I'm working on an allegory I like to remind myself of the various definitions. Here's one for gate: A path or way. A particular way of acting or doing; manner. A structure that can be swung, drawn, or lowered to block an entrance or a passageway. The Gate may be an allegory for all gates - all pathways, all mechanisms that lead to something, all structures that can be swung, drawn, lowered, all entrances, and all passages. The Neck is a passageway that leads to the North. Moat Cailin is a gate that guards the north. Moat Cailin still has a chest-deep moat filled with lizard lions. The Kingsroad runs atop a causeway which is a dry road through the bogs. The three remaining towers of Moat Cailin block the causeway and anyone that wants to pass by must pass beneath and between the towers. Going around the towers means venturing out into the bogs. Whitewalls was said to be near the shores of the God's Eye, but closer to Maidenpool than Kings Landing. It could not have been located past the south end of the lake, because Dunk and Egg took a ferry across the God's Eye when they were traveling to Whitewalls from Stoney Sept. Just an aside, the ferry was called "Ned's ferry", which might be a clue left by the author to direct our attention to the area. I've always wondered why the Rebel forces retreated north after defeating the loyalist forces at Stoney Sept. I haven't been able to find any details of what happened between Stoney Sept and the Battle at the Trident, but I do suspect that Jon Arryn did not bring his army to Stoney Sept. He went to Riverrun to marry Lysa, but he's not credited with helping Ned and Hoster free Robert, so where did he go and what did his army do? The plays held at The Gate are allegories for multiple events held in multiple locations, but all the locations are in areas that would be considered "gates". We may need to add "roads" and "inns" under the allegory of "gates", because Tyrion met Tysha somewhere between Lannisport and Casterly Rock, took refuge in an inn, and she was later raped in the guards' barracks, which sound like permanent housing set up for Lannister soldiers - maybe right there at Casterly Rock. I think the only conclusion we can be confident of for now is that The Gate is somewhere in the Riverlands and close to The Ship - well, The Ship encompasses the Riverlands all the way down to Kings Landing! Har! I agree the Stepstones would be another "gateway" or "passageway" between Essos and Westeros. I've read other people's assertions that Moat Cailin would be vulnerable from the north, but I'm not so sure I believe that. There are still three towers blocking the causeway with a moat and bogs to the west and the Bite to the east. It's probably not manned at all times, because it's a ruin. The Ironborn tried holding it, but had no access to support their men with food, water, or supplies. The Boltons, Freys, and Manderlys easily kept them blocked off. They only wanted Theon to go in there and speed up the process. I don't recall why the Ironborn didn't bring support up from the south. An old theory around these parts is that Moat Cailin was once the location of a wall similar to the Wall, sort of in the vein of Hadrian's Wall and Antoinine Wall. If both Walls are hinges then the two mirrors reflect each other.

Ready to dig into these allegories. My first thought about Bobono is that it's not necessarily about Tyrion, but rather Tysha and the gang rape she suffered at the hands of Lannister men. Didn't Tywin give each soldier a gold silver coin to pay her so that they could tell Tyrion that she was a prostitute? I'm going to investigate the colors of Bobono's foot-long cock, because the coloring may be sigil related....I'll be back when I have more.

IMO there is a series of events that run together and I think it goes like this: 1) Rickard seals a marriage alliance with Jon Arryn to marry Lyanna to Robert 2) Sometime early in the tourney, Lyanna chases off the three squires 3) Howland is introduced to the Starks, they collect the armor, come up with the plan, and Howland prays 4) At the end of one of the tourney days, Rhaegar comes upon Robert and Ashara in bed 5) Maybe even that same night, Rhaegar "sings" his little tale to Lyanna, and she "sniffles" 6) the conversation between Ned and Lyanna occurs where she expresses her misgivings 7) Lyanna notices that Ashara danced with many men 8) the following day, the Knight of the Laughing Tree enters the lists 9) The next day the KotLT is noticeably absent, Rhaegar wins the joust 10) Rhaegar places the laurel on Lyanna's lap 11) Lyanna and Howland flee the tourney - spooked that Rhaegar suspected her/them 12) King Aerys II sent out Rhaegar and Gregor Clegane out to look for the Knight of the Laughing Tree

I was thinking more on the subject of the oarsmen. In particular the metaphor itself. Oarsmen power and move The Ship through the water, and certainly the Rebellion moved around the Riverlands before heading south to Kings Landing. The Ship is the stage where the play is performed. I had mentioned the other day that I thought The Ship was the mother of all ships, and it was if it's indeed an allegory for the Rebellion. The thing with allegories is that they encompass more than a single metaphor or thought. That's why they're used. Just take a look at the definition: Allegory: The representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form. A story, picture, or play employing such representation. I think we should expect to see multitudes of ideas and events represented, so the seven oarsmen can be seven houses or seven individuals or both, or even a nod to the Faith. Just as "oarsmen" can be men that are financially driven, desire power, or actual geographical movement. "Drunken" can be actions not normally taken, not thinking clearly, uninhibited, and still include the actual battles in the Riverlands and in the Trident itself. I agree that the lambs - especially if repeated - is meant to signal a sacrifice, but I don't think it necessarily means it had to be intentional. And I agree with you that it's a sore spot between the allies of Frey, Bolton, and Manderly. Again, I'm happy to accept the allegory as applying to more than one character. Tywin was a Bloody Hand who lost his "crown" in the privy, because was there ever any doubt in anyone's mind that Tywin was the true ruler whenever he was Hand? And I agree when Izembaro plays the king and misplaces his boar spear, he's Robert. It's also possible that the comments of "Please the pit" and "give them something that they haven't seen before" could be Varys since he has a background as a mummer. In conclusion, though, one of these people "owns" the land where "The Gate" is. If The Gate does't belong to any particular House, it belongs to the realm and to the king. It's always the king's property to award. Again, I think its entirely possible that it means all of these things - everything you see and everything I've already mentioned. That is how allegories work - PLUS it plays into the theory that there is a wheel of time replaying the same events over and over.

With regards to Pretty Pig's comment, I'm going off of memory and I don't recall if she's written up an entire theory. I think she raised it more in passing. I was waiting for you to comment on what we've already discussed before going back to dig into the text again. I spent way more time than I should have deciphering nerdy GOT stuff yesterday that I hardly got any work done! It's hard to believe Wyman would be willing to sacrifice Wendel. Maybe he just didn't think it'd happen? I did some earlier work in the Cat of the Canals chapter about the Manderlys, but it's incomplete. It's part of the "ship" allegories. This is what I've found so far for The Small Brazen Monkey and the huge Ibbenese Whaler: The small Brazen Monkey and the huge Ibbenese whaler are together in Braavos and docked at the Ragman’s Harbor. The Ibbenese whaler was said to "reek of tar, blood, and whale oil". A crew member on this ship cursed Cat so loudly that he scared away her cats. The description of being “huge” along with “whale” hints at a connection to Wayman Manderly. In the chapter, cats were following Cat. The "cats” that were looking for her were scared off her trail by Manderly men. Wayman “reeks”, because currently he’s in an alliance with Roose and Ramsay Bolton, who is a crew member of the Brazen Monkey. The “blood” and “tar” are in reference to the children Ramsay murdered and tarred to take the places of Bran and Rickon. The location of Ibben as being an island in the Shivering Sea is a very apt metaphor for the Manderlys. The north is often described as a sea, and the transplanted Manderlys are an island of Andals amongst the northmen. At the end of Dance, Winterfell was experiencing an extreme blizzard. The “sea” has swept down from beyond the Wall and is freezing these mermen. The small Brazen Monkey "hails" from Gulltown. It's crew is led by Wat (Roose?), who approached Cat, asking where he can find a good brothel. Another asked how a girl from King's Landing came to be selling mussels on the docks of Braavos, so she had to tell her tale. "We're here four days, and four long nights," another told her. "Where's a man to go to find a bit of sport?” While I cannot say for sure, it sounds like Lyanna or Ashara encountered Roose and Domeric Bolton and his men. Sounds like they may have even chased her for awhile - a situation symbolic of the story of the Norse Wild Hunt. They chased her for four days and nights. Roose had this to say about Domeric and Lyanna: It sounds like Domeric captured Lyanna. Were the Boltons secretly working with the Lannisters just like they did prior to the Red Wedding? "Brazen" means to be bold and without shame. It can also mean to be made of brass, which is probably how it is connected to monkeys - as in the colloquial expression, “cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.” The brass monkeys themselves are the famous three wise monkeys of see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil. The three monkeys might be the Boltons, Freys, and Manderlys - the three Houses holed up at Winterfell. Right now Roose and Ramsay are sitting at Winterfell freezing their balls off. The Boltons seat is the Dreadfort, but they've taken other castles through trickery: Hornwood, Moat Cailin, and Winterfell. They are con men whose ship “hails” from Gulltown. Is it "gull" or "gall"? Definition of gall: Something bitter to endure. Brazen boldness coupled with impudent assurance and insolence. Irritate or sarcasm. The Boltons are bannermen of the Starks, yet there is no love lost there. They are like the Freys are to the Tullys. The Starks gall the Boltons. They are jealous of the Stark ability to skinchange direwolves (and perhaps horses), and they resented having them as their liege lord. I believe Gulltown, or "Galltown" is an allegory for the Dreadfort, and meant to mirror how the Boltons hold one area (Winterfell), but “hail” from somewhere else. The Boltons are very brazen. Other than freezing their balls, they're supposed to be allies of the Manderlys and Freys, yet they wouldn't hesitate to kill an ally, or cause injury to their former liege lord of House Stark. Some of the Bolton’s deceit has rubbed off on the Ibbenese whaler, Wayman Manderly, who has killed two Frey envoys, and hidden their bodies as the meat filling in the wedding pies.