Melifeather

I didn't mean to imply that we're against revisiting old topics. On the contrary! We enjoy digging these things up and sometimes we find that we've moved away from a specific theory and towards another. So, have at it! Post whatever interests you! I had a momentary lapse and forgot about how Torrhen could have fit with the wildling origin story since he's the Stark lord that famously bent the knee. You know, the weirwood arrows that Brandon Stark was to shoot at Aegon's dragons might not have been literal, but metaphorical if Brandon was actually the greenseer in the lower level of the crypts.

The Wall was inspired by GRRM's visit to Hadrian's Wall in England, but with regards to our story the Wall is more closely positioned with Antonine's Wall further north. It does seem likely that Moat Cailin was possibly an earlier "Hadrian's" wall, but was destroyed. It's heavily suggested that the Children called down their hammer of waters from that location and that's why it was destroyed, so what if the "help" that the Children gave the Last Hero was the hammer? The ancient timeline is a bit fuzzy, but the generally accepted idea is that the Hammer occurred much earlier than the Last Hero and that it was part of the war against the invading Andals, and that afterward the Children were pushed further north. If the Andals won and the Children defeated, then the Starks were also defeated. The wildling's origin story includes their lord dying and their refusal to accept the dead lord's son as their new lord - that business about not bending the knee to him is the reason they are imprisoned behind the Wall. Did the dead lord's son conspire with the Andals? It could be one possible answer to the mystery in the crypts. There is also the theory that the earliest Night Watch watched from atop several walls like a curtain wall that encloses a great castle like Winterfell. Perhaps an ancient weirwood throne where a greenseer once sat is what's lying in the lower levels of the crypts, warded behind iron bars. Maybe the greenseer was also the dead lord Stark? All of these theories have been discussed over the years in the past Heresy threads.

The assumption that Winterfell is Winter + fell is just a theory, but it is one that I tend to believe, because of the ancient mythos that the Children helped the Last Hero (singular) defeat the Others. Then there's that conflicting song that the Nights Watch (multiple) rode out to defeat the Others in the Battle for the Dawn. Add to that the mythos that Bran the Builder built Winterfell and you've got a collection of stories that seem to hint that the Starks have Winterfell because they participated in defeating the Others. It is said that the Others bring the cold winds or alternatively that the cold winds bring the Others, so "winter" is very much associated with the Others. Therefore, defeating the Others would be to overcome winter, thus winter fell. When I say "Others" I'm visually imagining white walkers, because white walkers cannot exist without winter - BUT I very much believe that the wildlings ARE also the Others and are responsible for creating white walkers. I base this theory on what we know about how Melisandre births (black) shadows. It only makes sense to me that white walkers are also (white) shadows and therefore need a human to draw life-force from in order to exist. The only difference between the black and white shadows is that the cold preserves and freezes the mist used in their creation. The black shadows are also made of mist, but the "fire" (sunlight) consumes them. The white walker shadows are known to avoid the sun, because the heat of light would melt them.

Tiger Lily sends her condolences as well. She's an aging, fat, orange tabby cat, but she got along with dogs. Doesn't care much for tomcats however, especially black and white ones that rhyme with schmittens.

I can see a scenario where Jon's spirit goes into Ghost only to return to his body once magic is invoked. Either Melisandre will perform the rite or perhaps Val, but I don't see him remaining inside of Ghost. I think skinchangers have to slip into other humans while they are still alive and have the strength. Varamyr likely wasn't strong enough (he was dying) when he tried to enter Thistle and that's why he wasn't successful. The Starks are tethered to their wolves so the connection is already there. It's like his second body.

At this moment, Jon was thinking of leading a ranging party to deal with the mutineers at Crasters and at the same time, find out what happened to the rest of wildlings scattered to the Haunted Forest after Stannis defeated Mance. This woman is obviously not Mel. But who else might she be? I think I know the answer. What book and chapter is the above quote from? It won't come up for me on asearchoficeandfire . Edited to add: Never mind. I see now that the quote was from an earlier text, one that GRRM changed. It is dumb though, because it sounds like Melisandre is telling Jon that she saw herself in the vision and that's why Jon laughed and said it was absurd.

Whoops, my bad, Osha.

I'm not so sure that Asha is no longer with Rickon. When Ghost/Jon thinks of his brothers and sisters he doesn't think of them as dualities. They are one and the same. I believe Rickon's other half is Asha.

You may not be a fan of my parallel inversion theory, but I believe there are key parallels between the Water Gardens in Dorne and the subterranean castles of the Westerlands. In AFFC chap 2, The Captain of Guards, Areo Hotah takes note of the rotting and dropping blood oranges highlighted against the sound of the splashing waters of the Water Gardens. Symbolically the visuals and audibles evoke events from Tywin's past when he annihilated two families, the Tarbecks and the Reynes. Doran Martel is an inverted parallel of Tywin. His gout an external and physical manifestation of Tywin's internal seething hatred. Not only is Casterly Rock inside a mountain, so was Castamere. Named after a nearby pool of water, Castamere began as a gold and silver mine like Casterley Rock. Nine-tenths of the castle was subterranean. Tywin had the entrances buried beneath stone, and then dammed the pool’s stream and diverted it into a mine entrance, flooding the underground chambers. The Reynes had taken refuge at Castamere. With ample food in storage, Ser Reynard Reyne abandoned the surface fortifications once his soldiers were in Castamere’s tunnels. Tywin ordered the entrances sealed with tons of stone, earth, and soil so that there was no way in or out. Over the course of three days, Tywin had his men dam a nearby stream and divert it to the mine entrance. Water easily found its way through the tiny gaps in the rubble. None of the three hundred men, women, and children within emerged from the tunnels. I guess I had made the assumption that Casterly Rock was a larger version of Castamere. As for rickets...maybe the lack of sunlight was partially to blame for Tyrion's deformities? I realize he's a dwarf, but if you google rickets and dwarfism there are connections.

The dragons were an afterthought, but not the Targaryens. They do season the story with allot of flavor, but their existence isn't driving the story. I had a brief discussion the other day about the differences between idea, concept, and premise. The "idea" of ASOIAF is a fantasy world where magic exists. The "concept" is to suggest that there are secrets hidden and that there are forces working to either keep them concealed or to reveal them. The "premise" is to have an archetypical hero (or heroine) that will save Westeros or at least as many humans as they can. The dragons therefore are neither the idea, concept, or premise of ASOIAF unless you believe the dragons will become the heroes? They exist because of magic, but so do a few other things like the connection between skinchangers and their animals, white walkers, glass candles, and shadow babies. There is a secret ritual that seems to be necessary to bond dragons to a human, but again this secret is not the key concept.

I think the show borrowed heavily from fan theories from this very forum. George shared character arcs so that the show wouldn't go that route and spoil the story for book readers. Take Stannis for example. Did it seem to you that he was being set up for a defeat camped out in the snow outside Winterfell? Or do book readers expect Stannis to win and take Winterfell? I do, however, expect that Brienne will get to kill Stannis, because that scenario was setup long ago when she pledged her sword to Lady Catelyn.

I'm sorry. I'm not getting the same impressions that you are, but no worries! It's probably because I'm an obnoxious, pretentious analyzer!

Okay, this discussion may be above my pay grade! I watched the Rothfuss segment, but I did not get the impression that he was showing scorn. He was more dismayed that the deeper levels were being revealed where people would read someone's discovery before finding it for themselves. Like GRRM, Rothfuss wants his readers to enjoy his books and be surprised when they uncover a hidden meaning and to discuss their findings with friends, but it sounds to me like he doesn't like public forums. I suppose he views them as being too spoilery?

I find this statement confusing with regard to how I understand the term "literary concept". If anything ASOIAF has multiple concepts. One striking example is the North remembers and that Winterfell has forgotten, not to mention that there is a growing threat coming from the North. Let me back this up a bit with the differences between "idea", "concept", and "premise". The "idea" of ASOIAF is a fantasy world where magic exists. The "concept" is to suggest that there are secrets hidden and that there are forces working to either keep them concealed or to reveal them. The "premise" is to have an archetypical hero (or heroine) that will save Westeros or at least as many humans as they can. Are you saying ASOIAF has no concept?

The reason why GRRM has written so much about the Targaryens is because doing so won't spoil the ending of ASOIAF. I suspect that the SheWolves tale is too spoilery.