Melifeather

Ser Duncan the Tall also had a dream that seems to share some elements with Ned's. At the end he says it never happened that way... Duncan’s Dream - from The Hedge Knight Egg was asleep by the time Dunk reached the roof. He lay on his back with his hands behind his head and stared up at the sky. The stars were everywhere, thousands and thousands of them. It reminded him of a night at Ashford Meadow, before the tourney started. He had seen a falling star that night. Falling stars were supposed to bring you luck, so he’d told Tanselle to paint it on his shield, but Ashford had been anything but lucky for him. Before the tourney ended, he had almost lost a hand and a foot, and three good men had lost their lives. I gained a squire, though. Egg was with me when I rode away from Ashford. That was the only good thing to come of all that happened. He hoped that no stars fell tonight. There were red mountains in the distance and white sands beneath his feet. Dunk was digging, plunging a spade into the hot, dry earth and flinging the fine sand back over his shoulder. He was making a hole. A grave, he thought, a grave for hope. A trio of Dornish knights stood watching, making mock of him in quiet voices. Farther off the merchants waited with their mules and wayns and sand sledges. They wanted to be off, but he could not leave until he’d buried Chestnut. He would not leave his old friend to the snakes and scorpions and sand dogs. The stot had died on the long, thirsty crossing between the Prince’s Pass and Vaith, with Egg upon his back. His front legs just seemed to fold up under him, and he knelt right down, rolled onto his side, and died. His carcass sprawled beside the hole. Already it was stiff. Soon it would begin to smell. Dunk was weeping as he dug, to the amusement of the Dornish knights. “Water is precious in the waste,” one said, “you ought not to waste it, ser.” The other chuckled and said, “Why do you weep? It was only a horse, and a poor one.” Chestnut, Dunk thought, digging, his name was Chestnut, and he bore me on his back for years, and never bucked or bit. The old stot had looked a sorry thing beside the sleek sand steeds that the Dornishmen were riding, with their elegant heads, long necks, and flowing manes, but he had given all he had to give. “Weeping for a swaybacked stot?” Ser Arlan said, in his old man’s voice. “Why, lad, you never wept for me, who put you on his back.” He gave a little laugh, to show he meant no harm by the reproach. “That’s Dunk the lunk, thick as a castle wall.” “He shed no tears for me, either,” said Baelor Breakspear from the grave, “though I was his prince, the hope of Westeros. The gods never meant for me to die so young.” “My father was only nine-and-thirty,” said Prince Valarr. “He had it in him to be a great king, the greatest since Aegon the Dragon.” He looked at Dunk with cool blue eyes. “Why would the gods take him, and leave you?” The Young Prince had his father’s light brown hair, but a streak of silver-gold ran through it. You are dead, Dunk wanted to scream, you are all three dead, why won’t you leave me be? Ser Arlan had died of a chill, Prince Baelor of the blow his brother dealt him during Dunk’s trial of seven, his son Valarr during the Great Spring Sickness. I am not to blame for that. We were in Dorne, we never even knew. “You are mad,” the old man told him. “We will dig no hole for you, when you kill yourself with this folly. In the deep sands a man must hoard his water.” “Begone with you, Ser Duncan,” Valarr said. “Begone.” Egg helped him with the digging. The boy had no spade, only his hands, and the sand flowed back into the grave as fast as they could fling it out. It was like trying to dig a hole in the sea. I have to keep digging, Dunk told himself, though his back and shoulders ached from the effort. I have to bury him down deep where the sand dogs cannot find him. I have to… “… die?” said Big Rob the simpleton from the bottom of the grave. Lying there, so still and cold, with a ragged red wound gaping in his belly, he did not look very big at all. (my note: sounds like King Robert in his bed of blood) Dunk stopped and stared at him. “You’re not dead. You’re down sleeping in the cellar.” He looked to Ser Arlan for help. “Tell him, ser,” he pleaded, “tell him to get out of the grave.” Only it was not Ser Arlan of Pennytree standing over him at all, it was Ser Bennis of the Brown Shield. The brown knight only cackled. “Dunk the lunk,” he said, “gutting’s slow, but certain. Never knew a man to live with his entrails hanging out.” Red froth bubbled on his lips. He turned and spat, and the white sands drank it down. Treb was standing behind him with an arrow in his eye, weeping slow, red tears. And there was Wet Wat too, his head cut near in half, with old Lem and red-eyed red-eyed Pate and all the rest. They had all been chewing sourleaf with Bennis, Dunk thought at first, but then he realized that it was blood trickling from their mouths. Dead, he thought, all dead, and the brown knight brayed. “Aye, so best get busy. You’ve more graves to dig, lunk. Eight for them and one for me and one for old Ser Useless, and one last one for your baldhead boy.” The spade slipped from Dunk’s hands. “Egg,” he cried, “run! We have to run!” But the sands were giving way beneath their feet. When the boy tried to scramble from the hole, its crumbling sides gave way and collapsed. Dunk saw the sands wash over Egg, burying him as he opened his mouth to shout. He tried to fight his way to him, but the sands were rising all around him, pulling him down into the grave, filling his mouth, his nose, his eyes… His head was pounding, and he could not forget the dream he dreamed the night before. It never happened that way, he tried to tell himself. It wasn’t like that. Chestnut had died on the long dry ride to Vaith, that part was true. He and Egg rode double until Egg’s brother gave them Maester. The rest of it, though…

I know very well that the mountains are not the sands...I was dancing around some of my other opinions, because I wasn't really very interested in this topic. I don't believe Ned travelled through the Prince's Pass, and I don't believe the tower of joy is even located there. If YOU look at the maps, the best way to get to Starfall is by ship. The Prince's Pass does not lead to Starfall. It only leads into Dorne. Starfall is protected by sheer cliffs, and is located on an island in the Torentine River. The tower of joy is a nickname for Maegor's Holdfast.

I wish I had something more meaningful to contribute than what I'm about to say...IMO Renly's peach is symbolic of a maidenhead. Peaches look very much like a woman's pubis mound - camel toe and all! Renly and Stannis were parley-ing, and under normal circumstances when two opponents are negotiating, a marriage alliance with a maiden is part of the transaction. Think back to Catelyn's transaction with Walder Frey. Marriage alliances were made, not just for Robb, but for Arya too. Two maidens were needed to seal the deal: a Frey maiden and a Stark maiden. When Brienne encounters some former Brave Companions that included Rorge and Biter, Biter took a bite out of Brienne's cheek. Symbolically he was taking a bite out of a "peach" - Brienne is still a maiden and her maidenhead intact. I'm actually glad that GRRM didn't have Biter bite Brienne in the "peach" which is very near a pair of "cheeks". The Reach is known for growing peaches, but the true meaning behind "the bite" might be an indication that the Lannisters were stealing maidens rather than securing marriage alliances? Like you say, in the near future the Lannisters do make a marriage alliance with Rohanne Weber - what was Gerold Lannister? Her sixth husband???

I am assuming he saw the red mountains of Dorne at one time, because they are one segment in his dream.

Warning! Unsolicited factoid about to be shared! I don't know if anyone else watches David Eagleman's series about the brain on PBS, but he said dreams are bits and pieces of memories of things we've already seen or experienced, but then while we sleep our brain mixes and matches various sections and basically runs a simulation testing various outcomes, in other words "troubleshooting", and its what helps develop our intuition so that when we're faced with new experiences, our intuition guides us in our decision making. I don't know whether GRRM would know how dreams work or not, but going off the assumption that he does have some factual knowledge, we might conclude that Ned did meet the three Kingsguard somewhere, he did see or pass by the tower of joy where his men were killed, he did travel across the sands of Dorne at one time, he did battle against Arthur Dayne, Howland somehow helped Ned win the sword fight, he did reach Lyanna before she died, he held her hand while she was lying in a bed of blood, and she extracted "promises". That is really all we can be sure of. The fact of the matter is, it is entirely possible that all of these things could have occurred in different places and times. Furthermore, Ned says it's "an old dream" - not a recurring dream, so we know he's had this dream before. He remarks that "He did not think it omened well that he should dream that dream again after so many years..."

I believe @wolfmaid7 placed links to the essays in The Heretic's Guide to Heresy. In the opening post there's a spoiler drop down with links to the various essays. Although I might add that my essay regarding Mance is quite far-fetched and not anything that I currently believe. I actually believe Ned and Ashara are Jon's parents and that Ashara had disguised herself as Wylla, just as Sansa is now Alayne.

Why would you doubt my honesty? I guess I interpret the books very differently than you, because I never had the impression that the storylines hit "pause". IMO the wildlings are the Others and have manufactured a threat. They recruited six volunteers to sacrifice their human lives to become white walkers. Is there any existing text to support this idea? It depends upon how explicit you need the proof to be. Stannis is the current "game's" King Sherrit who called down his curse upon the Andals from the Nightfort. Daenerys has already repeated a number of historical events, namely the origin of dragons (mother) and the Dance of the Dragons 2.0. Jon Snow is about to repeat the role of the Nights King. GRRM is setting up a pretty significant reveal where AFFC and ADWD will make more sense. The explanations will have to come through Bran POVs, because I believe they have to do with the wheel of time, historic events, and the manipulation of time. GRRM has said in interviews that he doesn't like his imagination to be restricted to page counts. He left a Hollywood career writing tv shows, because his ideas were too big for the small screen - even movie screens. Maybe the reason why he's taking so long is because he's being pressured to cut his story? Maybe he has way more written than Winds can encompass? I'm probably just as familiar with the quotes as you are, but I still suspect that he wanted to build anticipation and expectation that she would come, but in the end, she'll choose not to. I'm sure people would have a difficult time accepting that idea just as they did when they read about the Red Wedding. (I actually threw my book across the room after reading it.)

Please. Lets not get into a debate about R+L=J. There is an existing ongoing thread for that, and Heresy has also already discussed it.

Have a little faith! Do any of the books thus far warrant being criticized as “amateur”? You are projecting your own criteria that Dany must invade Westeros in order for Winds to qualify as “professional” without even reading it. What do you plan to do? Wait until somebody else reads it and publicly reveals what happens before deciding to read it yourself? Does any of this have to do with your encrypted post? Do you face public embarrassment if Dany doesn’t invade Westeros? You seem very invested in this particular outcome.

He claims to have stopped reading the forums years ago, and being an old tv writer himself he surely understood some of the choices that D&D made, but we’re not privy to “what” he told them regarding the arcs for each character nor whether or not they chose to incorporate what he told them. Nor do we know how much of the book is completed or when each chapter was written. One thing I believe we can be confident in is that he hasn’t changed the ending that he has in mind. People’s impressions will be influenced by their personal biases, and whether or not you may think it’s a poor imitation will only be an opinion.

How so?

Well, Leaf's words to Bran seem to imply that the Children know what the future holds and Bran's education is of paramount importance. Why would that be if they do not have the power to manipulate future events? Then I misunderstood you. I thought you were referring to the followers of Heresy and this forum. Rephrasing your intention doesn't help me however, to follow your logic. Why would anyone need to compromise in order to find the story enjoyable? You either accept that GRRM is telling his own story, or you believe that he's being influenced by the fans.

There is no need for fans to compromise. We can be a passionate bunch on Heresy, but we do usually strive to disagree in an agreeable manner. I owe JNR an apology for reacting so strongly to his opinion by calling him pompous. I shouldn't have criticized him personally - just his assertion, which I still think is ridiculous.

People in real life will sometimes attribute a tragedy or even something seemingly miraculous as having been directed by "God's hand" or that is was "God's will". What is the will of the old gods?

What seems apparent to me may not be so for everyone else, so I ask your indulgence in considering these thoughts... I think the characters are affected by the wheel of time whether they realize it or not, but what does seem evident to me is that there exists an unseen "hand" or "force" that exerts "pressure" or "encouragement" in character decision making. It's as if they are all simply playing pieces on a giant game of Cyvasse. The game board has been setup to replay historical events - events that we have been schooled in which have occurred, are currently unfolding, and will continue to occur into the next book. The characters don't even realize that they are participating in a game or even cooperating with the needed friends, relatives, and enemies that are required in each circumstance. Certainly Daenerys had no prior instruction on how to hatch those dragons eggs, and yet somehow she "knew" - intuitively - if intuition is even the correct word for it. Which begs the question, is there even a such thing as free will? It's just my opinion that Daenerys is being presented with a choice between "Hizdahr" (duty) and "Daario" (passion) - and powerful forces are pressuring her to choose a specific path. I just happen to believe that she will choose to stay in Essos. I could be wrong. She may decide to accept "duty" and continue on the path back to Westeros like the majority here expect. I just don't see that happening. Just an aside. I was watching a nature program about the Harpy eagle. It's nearly four feet tall and hunts monkeys for prey!