Melifeather

The planet that they call the Thief is red like our planet Mars named after the ancient Roman god of war. Seems apt that the Red Wanderer/Thief/Smith is Robert. Ned did say he was once built like a maiden's dream which would fit the stereotype of being like a god and he certainly came to power through war. Something to consider about Durran Godsgrief...all of his wedding guests died due to his actions in marrying a goddess. Robert's wedding guests are dead also if you think of his friends Ned and Jon Arryn as the guests that would have sat on "his side". Mars raped Rhea Silvia who was a Vestal Virgin. She then gave birth to twin wolves Romulus and Remus. I know we've talked about Romulus and Remus a long, long time ago in Heresy, but I cannot remember in what capacity.

There would be a significant parallel to Durran Godsgrief and Elenei if Robert Baratheon was actually complicit in Lyanna's kidnapping. I suspect that the Kingswood Brotherhood was a "constellation" of people that had worked with Kevin Lannister in the past to kidnap nobles and hold them for ransom and I believe their "known" identities are fake.

Robert Baratheon isn't enough of a Smith for you? Does the Smith have to be the one that is also the Thief that steals the maiden or is it possible that only all of the elements need to be present? When the Thief is in the Moonmaid its supposed to be a good time to steal a Maiden. The constellation is a grouping of stars while the Red Wanderer (aka Thief) is a planet. Does it matter how many people are in the "constellation" when the Thief makes his move? One thing that seems intuitive to me is that a constellation is a grouping of the same stars. Logically speaking then this group has done the thieving more than once.

The Secrets and Clues of the Official Game of Thrones Maps It can’t get much clearer than that if the person that created the maps says that not all the locations should be taken as rote. Rote is an interesting choice of word. By definition it means to learn a fact by repeating it therefore the maker of the maps is not asserting that all of the locations are correct and we are not to accept them as confirmation.

13 facts about the maps of Lands of Ice and Fire

I disagree. The maps of Lands of Ice and Fire feature original artwork from illustrator and cartographer Jonathan Roberts with GRRM's authorization. Did GRRM confirm that Roberts got the location correct or did he simply allow the location, because that is where he's led the reader to believe? Its sort of like allowing Maester Yandel to write the official history in the World book. Is the account factual or the official history pleasing to the king? Foreshadowing for what?

Still pulling parallels out of that scene where Arya somersaulted down a tunnel: Whatever was done seems to have been done to "kill" a monstrous beast - the Targaryens perhaps? The cloud of hot smoke and black dust smelling of hell seems to evoke a dragon. I'm thinking Bloodraven was motivated to act, because the Prince that was Promised - which I believe was understood as a living dragon - was to come through the line of Aerys and Rhaella, and it needed to be stopped. I had brought up the idea that out of all the possible futures where "a way to win" could be realized included a reality in which Lyanna died.

This was Barristan's opinion. He did his duty, but his failures haunted him at night. Why did Barristan take Rhaegar's death so personally? Its the sentences directly afterward that provide enlightenment. He failed to protect Elia and her children from death. Barristan had been sent to rally the royalist troops after the defeat at the Battle of the Bells and after King Aerys "fired" Jon Connington. Selmy then fought in the Battle at the Trident, so how was he supposed to protect Elia and her children if he had been away from Kings Landing for so many months? I think he regretted saving Aerys from Duskendale, because if the king had died then Rhaegar would have been king. Back to Tyrion in a barrel getting pickled...it struck me that the imagery of the barrel being rolled is like Arya's somersaults. Their concealment, the repeated rolling/cycling, and their escape from death are inversions to Lyanna's death. They repeated many of the same events from when Lyanna went missing, but ultimately they lived where she died. Being re-born amidst salt and smoke seems to apply to Tyrion and Arya. Tyrion escaped the Black Cells through the tunnels and got sealed into a barrel, got pickled on wine, and rolled to safety. Arya somersaulted down a tunnel and escaped being burned to death. Whitewalls was taken apart stone by stone and salted. Azor Ahai is supposed to be born of salt and smoke. It should be someone that escapes certain death by rolling away - maybe from fire - down a tunnel. Castle Black has subterranean tunnels. Just sayin.

Regarding the tower of joy...I think its a mistake to link the place that Rhaegar called the tower of joy with the watchtower in the Prince's Pass. Ned's recollection of the bitter memory where he lost five of his men could have been much earlier in the Rebellion. Black Crow brought up the meaning of the word "vengeance". How could Robert take vengeance upon Rhaegar at the Trident if Lyanna wasn't dead yet? If Lyanna died prior to the battle at the Trident, then I think its entirely possible that Lyanna was found near a ruined tower when Ned was traveling from Stoney Sept after the Battle of the Bells and after he crossed the God's Eye to meet up with Jon Arryn's forces. I had previously made a connection between the tower of joy and Maegor's Holdfast, and while I still see parallels between the two I don't think it was the location where Lyanna was found. Arya's escape from the burning barn at that abandoned tower near the Gods Eye was a repeated cycle. Right before Arya somersaults down the tunnel she sees a wheel looming over her. The looming wheel is symbolic of a life cycle or cyclicality of what is happening in her life. The act of somersaulting or rolling down the narrow winding tunnel headfirst, dropping 5 feet and then crawling for a total of a dozen feet through the earth is visually our clue that Arya is repeating Lyanna's death, but she emerges out the other end still alive. It's also interesting that Arya moved her belt around so that Needle would not be in her way. Robert's goring by the bore gave Ned deja vu due to, not only the type of injury, or the way that he lay in his bed of blood and the smells in the room, but also the positioning of the three Kingsguard. This is evidence that Lyanna's death and circumstances were similar and that a "Needle" got in her way. Screams of dying horses...hmm, a nod to Lyanna dying perhaps? As for Rory Cassel's father being buried far to the south...Ned sent Rory to be buried next to his grandfather at Winterfell, because his father was buried further south. Lots of places are south of Winterfell. The context was the distance and positioning of Rory's father's grave to the location of the grandfather's grave. When Tyrion escaped the Black Cells he did so through secret tunnels. He escaped "fiery" death much like Arya did. He was "salted" and "pickled" in a barrel - which are symbolic connections not just to (red) herrings and Azor Ahai, but to Bloodraven's salting of Whitewalls. Cersei had Jaime search the Tower of the Hand. Jaime figuratively tore the tower down, meaning he searched it thoroughly, and then Cersei ordered the tower burned, because she wanted to tear the tower down literally. After the Second Blackfyre Rebellion was put down during the Wedding Tourney at Whitewalls, Bloodraven said the following to Lord Butterwell regarding Whitewalls: Bloodraven pulled down Whitewalls stone by stone. That's alot of work considering Whitewalls was a very expensive castle to build. Not only was there a beautiful holdfast of white stone and marble, there were also a great hall, a sept, a gatehouse, yards, a kennel, kitchens, a cellar, and a well. Calling something a "tower of joy" can be said ironically. It doesn't have to be a location where Rhaegar found joy. It can be a location where the Targaryens won a significant battle, and indeed putting down a Blackfyre pretender at a tournament would have been significant. Bloodraven rode to Whitewalls with three Kingsguard as well as 300 Raven's Teeth, 500 knights, and 5000 infantry - this was a significant force, but Bloodraven was able to snuff out the rebellion with barely a whimper. Lord Butterwell had most of his wealth taken from him and his castle razed to the ground. After a thorough search, Aegon V aka "Egg" was found unharmed in a sept. Another observation is that eggs are frequently pickled and salted. The Riverlands in particular seem to be important as a location. It's where most of Robert's Rebellion was held. Arya escaped death in the Riverlands on the shores of the Gods Eye. Tyrion was taken hostage by Catelyn Stark at the Inn at the Crossroads which is located at the intersection of the Kingsroad and the River Road - in the Riverlands. And Lyanna went missing not ten leagues from Harrenhal which again is on the Gods Eye in the Riverlands. IMO placing Lyanna's death and the tower of joy in the Prince's Pass feels like a red herring. Tyrion's pickling in the barrel and the steps that Varys took to conceal his escape is our clue that placing the tower in the Prince's Pass is a misdirection.

The Prince's Pass name is old - much older than Rhaegar. Arys Oakheart recalls an ancient tapestry that hung in his family home. It was woven with a design that represented an historical event of a battle between the Reach and Dorne. Depicted are three leaves pierced by Dornish spears in the Prince's Pass. The Oakheart's shield design is of three leaves so it must be symbolic of three Oakheart men killed in that location by the Dornish. The Prince's Pass is so named, because the main force of the Young Dragon (Daeron I) used it to conquer Dorne: The tapestry depicts Lord Edgerran Oakheart seated in splendor with the heads of a hundred Dornish piled around his feet. Sounds like he won a decisive battle and was richly rewarded. While the date of his battle isn't noted it seems like it could line up with the Young Dragon. The World Book says the Prince's Pass was once called the Wide Way. Three knights from House Oakheart met their death at the watch tower in the Prince's Pass that many claim is the location of the tower of joy. An event which is echoed much later by the fight between Ned and the three Kingsguard in his fever dream. House Oakheart lost three knights, but in the end Lord Edgerran was richly rewarded. In Ned's fever dream the Kingsguard are defeated, but in the end House Targaryen were the losers. Edited to add: the dress that Arya wore with the little acorns might be a nod to the Oakheart's that defeated the Dornish in the Prince's Pass, and her father's defeat of three Kingsguard in the parallel that came later. Just a thought.

At the time of the Battle of the Bells Aerys considered Elia a hostage; we are told that Aegon was born in Dragonstone and that Elia and his children where there when Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna. So who moved them to KL and why? And we have this other bit about Elia This is just a timeline of events. I don't believe its confirmation that Elia was a hostage this early in the Rebellion. How did Elia get back to Kings Landing after giving birth to Aegon on Dragonstone? And why would she go back to Kings Landing without Rhaegar? I don't think she would have come by herself. I think she was with Rhaegar when he returned from the south prior to the Trident. As soon as Rhaegar left and she took up residence in Maegor's Holdfast, Aerys set guards. They were preparing for a sack. In the beginning it may have looked like a means of protection much like when Cersei and her court ladies holed up in the tower when Stannis arrived. Since Rhaegar was gone, someone needed to meet the Dornish army that was yet coming up the Kingsroad from the south. King Aerys's "reminder" may have been a convenient twisting of perception. It would have been very easy to say she was actually now his prisoner.

The only indication we have as to the location where she was found is Ned's fever dream of a "tower long fallen", and his waking memory of: Ned could recall none of it. If the old dream was true then he would be remembering, right? Scratch that. He couldn't remember what happened after he found her.

The tale Bran tells is an accepted version told at Winterfell. This is before his third eye is open and there aren't any indications that this is one of his "remembered" visions. If he was more insistent I could be persuaded that this was a "remembered" vision, but I think its just the story Ned wanted circulated at home. The hyperbole of Lyanna being raped hundreds of times doesn't ring true. Either its something Robert was told to get him worked up or he himself is lying and using this phrase in a manipulative manner. It sort of has the ring of Donald Trump using propaganda to manipulate his audience.

I’m sure it’s deliberately vague so that it could be argued either way. But I think the reconciliation can be understood both ways - 1) right after it happened, and also 2) months or even years later during a chance meeting. Hmmm, maybe. I tend to think Robert is either lying here or repeating something he was told. I believe he was manipulated by Tywin, and this line about “raped hundreds of times” would be an effective narrative to motivate Robert to action.

Feel better soon dear friend!