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Melifeather

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  1. Here it is: That is a curious line. It does sound like it suggests Tyrion knew something.
  2. I don't know if its supposed to be a tradition to share goblets when toasting or for a bride and groom to share one at their wedding feast, but there does seem to be something "blatant" and "spelled out" with regards to having a three-foot tall golden wedding chalice with seven bejeweled sides and large handles on either side. The description sounds like a championship trophy! It's an attention grabber. It screams off the page to pay attention to the huge-ass chalice!
  3. I had read something too...something that made him constipated and that is why he was sitting so long on the toilet in the first place. I'm assuming the gut shot is why Tywin smelled so bad and the large amount of stool in his colon.
  4. This too bothered me all evening. I'd like to retract my post for now. Oberyn used venom. Then I thought the third was Jon Arryn, but Lyssa used Tears of Lys on him. GRRM does utilize a three-fold strategy, but I think I used an incomplete example. This doesn't change my thoughts that Melisandre's shared cup with Cressen was intended to be similar to Joffrey's poisoning though. Like you say, perhaps there will be a third one yet to come.
  5. I should add that the three-fold strategy unfolded in this order: The first, subtle - Cressen tried to poison Melisandre. (A Clash of Kings, Prologue) The killer is killed. The second, blatant - Lady Olenna poisons Joffrey. (A Storm of Swords, chapter 60) The killer (via a proxy) kills their intended target. The third, spelling it out - Oberyn poisoned Ser Gregor. (A Storm of Swords, chapter 70) The killer ends up killed, but still manages to poison their target. Sorry for all the edits...just small corrections in grammar and one book!
  6. GRRM's editor Anne Groell once said: I do believe that Cressen's attempted poisoning of Melisandre is one of GRRM's three-fold revelation strategies. I guess technically you could say this is a murder-suicide since surely Cressen understood he would die when he drank the rest of the wine. He was just hoping Melisandre died too. Joffrey's poisoning took out the intended target and concealed the killer. It was a successful murder and the killer went free which suggests that there was a third murder attempt by poison, that ends with the death of the killer...and there is such an account: Oberyn Martell. Oberyn poisoned his lance prior to fighting Ser Gregor Clegane - its what nearly killed Gregor and placed him into the "healing" hands of Qyburn who turned him into Ser Robert Strong. Oberyn, of course, was killed when Ser Gregor crushed his head.
  7. The wedding chalice symbolically represents the game of thrones. It has seven sides that might even represent the Andal Faith of Seven, with the seven major houses: Lannister (ruby lion), Tyrell (emerald rose), Baratheon (onyx stag), Tully (silver trout), Arryn (blue jade falcon), Martell (opal sun), and Stark (pearl direwolf). They're all playing games in order to gain power and it cannot look deliberate. The best game players, by all appearances, look innocent.
  8. Let's pretend we're the Tyrels for a moment and that we did plot Joffrey's poisoning. How would the preparations go? The 3-ft golden chalice with the seven bejeweled sides is an over-the-top gaudy wedding gift that was sure to capture a teenaged king's attention and likely insure that he'd want to drink from it - actually, he probably was obliged to drink from it since it was a gift intended to be used during the wedding feast. Its sheer size offers concealment in more than one way. When placed in front of you, you cannot see down inside. The solid gold would only shade the wine inside from light. It also insures that a full flagon is needed to fill it. If Joff managed to finish the first cup, he'd be sure to be intoxicated and less likely to notice anything amiss. Having Margaery share it - deliberately seen drinking from the same cup makes it appear safe. Surely the Tyrells wouldn't use a shared cup to poison Joffrey! That is why timing is so important. Margaery needed to be seen drinking from the same cup, but then a plan needed to be in place for when the cupbearer put the poison in: the toasts. They were waiting until the customary time to toast the bride and groom.
  9. But would you see anything at the bottom of a three foot tall golden chalice filled with red wine? I think that was actually the point of Mace Tyrell having such a large thing constructed. The chalice itself was deliberately made in order to disguise the poison.
  10. A three-foot tall chalice that Tyrion mutters is taller than he is... question - when Joffrey upended it over Tyrion's head, did he let go of the chalice let it fall to the ground? It's not clear how the chalice ended up on the floor, but when Joffrey demanded Tyrion pick it up, he kicked it away from Tyrion's hands. After Tyrion retrieved it, he takes the flagon from (I'm assuming) Joffrey's cupbearer, fills it 3/4's full, and then wonders if he's going to get another wine bath. Does this sound like the opportune time for Tyrion to drop the Strangler into the chalice? If you've only got one shot, you don't take it when you think it's just going to get dumped on your head again. I think this passage clears Tyrion as a suspect. Added to that, the chalice is as tall or taller than Tyrion. When it was on the table the rim would have been way over Tyrion's head. If Tyrion dropped the Strangler into the chalice, it would have had to be done during when he retrieved the chalice off the floor or when he refilled it. Refilling it must have been a challenge too. How did Tyrion hold the chalice and refill it and drop in the Strangler? Did he place the chalice on the floor while he poured the wine? At first I thought he placed the empty cup on the table and then filled it, but that would have been physically impossible for someone so short. No, Tyrion retrieved the cup from under the table. Joffrey demands that he refill it. Tyrion takes the flagon from the cupbearer and fills the chalice 3/4 full. Joffrey takes the chalice, drinks deep - as deep as someone can when they're tipping a 3-foot high chalice 3/4's full, and places it upon the table in front of Tyrion. It's not until Joffrey decides to shove his hand into Tyrion's pie that he tries to finish the wine and it pours down his face. If Joffrey was the target and the poison was in the pie, why was it Tyrion's piece that had it? I remain firmly convinced that Joffrey was the target, that the Strangler was dropped in the wine flagon by his cupbearer, and not in the pie. I also suspect that Margaery understood when the Strangler would be placed in the wine and that is why she was calling Joffrey back to his seat for a toast. She too would not want the wine wasted on top of Tyrion's head.
  11. Okay, this next part confirms my suspicions that the 3ft tall chalice was the one used at the wedding: And this... I am delighted to have proof that Joffrey had a cupbearer and that a flagon could fill this giant, three-foot wedding chalice.
  12. I don't think they typically use glass goblets. More likely silver or bejeweled.
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