The Unkown city of the others..

[himalyanjon]

I have always wondered why were the others asleep for so long?

[ckal]

I don't find it out of the question that the Others would have a city above ground. If they do have a city, I don't see any reason why it would be below ground.

[himalyanjon]

I don't find it out of the question that the Others would have a city above ground. If they do have a city, I don't see any reason why it would be below ground.

but if they have a city or dwelling than they are not supernatural being but just like men and animals.

[tgbyhn]

I have already posted a topic about this..

here's GRRM

"Of course, Iceland is relatively small. Beyond the Wall is considerably larger than Iceland—probably larger than Greenland. And the area closest to my Wall is densely forested, so in that sense it's more like Canada—Hudson's Bay or the Canadian forests just north of Michigan. And then as you get further and further north, it changes. You get into tundra and ice fields and it becomes more of an arctic environment. You have plains on one side and a very high range of mountains on the other. Of course, once again this is fantasy, so my mountains are more like the Himalayas. But, you can always play with these things in fantasy.

And what lies really north in my books—we haven't explored that yet, but we will in the last two books."

Now a large territory such a large area almost size of canada or china and no city. till now we have seen only south parts of the land of always winter what about the rest can there be ahidden city there in tundra planes george mentions above or the himalyan like mountains just like lhasa....

He didn't say "the land North of the wall is the size of Canada", he was referring to the land being like Canada in a physiographic sense, e.g. the forests near the wall are like those in the Canadian shield.

[Melpomene]

I reeeeeaally hope there isn't some kind of pretty large city with white ice structures and buildings - it feels to Atlantis-y for me, or anti-climactic with a storybook feel. Also it feels out of character. I mean, they have massacred Wildlings and turn people into snow zombies, and to it without provocation. There was also an attempt to take over the rest of Westeros, causing a cold, dark and deadly war. To come from that to having lovely libraries or fancy snow homes and schools and pets just seems really weird to me. The Others are not complete mindless ogres, but neither are they saints and genericly entirely human-like. They are cold, solemn and mysterious for a reason. They are dangerous for a reason. They are still an unusual creature.

I would opt for something more chilling, more dark. A black stone-like city amongst the mountains, jagged yet sturdy, quiet and eerie, the harsh wind giving the impression of whispers in your ear. You see the place and your hair stands on end, like walking into Hades/Greek Underworld.

If not some sort of city, then perhaps a nomadic type lifestyle. Assumingly they are not immediately like humans (Less dependent on food, able to survive in severe cold, peculiar "magical" properties, less dependency to be in large groups, etc) then they could easily be accustomed to a quiet, isolated type of life, "hybernating" during warmer months. Not saying they are primitive at all, they obviously have intelligence, just that they might not require the rustle and bustle of the city, nor require a regular civilization type atmosphere, but just cooly and silently amongst the forest or tundra, in smaller groups or solo. Like ghosts and spirits. Coming together only for battle or for blood.

[I do not sew]

Am I the only one that thinks Benjen and all the other missing have been collected by someone as a commando squad for a suicide run into Other territory is actually awesome...?

[himalyanjon]

Am I the only one that thinks Benjen and all the other missing have been collected by someone as a commando squad for a suicide run into Other territory is actually awesome...?

that would be awesome his post deserves a thread of its own.

[himalyanjon]

I reeeeeaally hope there isn't some kind of pretty large city with white ice structures and buildings - it feels to Atlantis-y for me, or anti-climactic with a storybook feel. Also it feels out of character. I mean, they have massacred Wildlings and turn people into snow zombies, and to it without provocation. There was also an attempt to take over the rest of Westeros, causing a cold, dark and deadly war. To come from that to having lovely libraries or fancy snow homes and schools and pets just seems really weird to me. The Others are not complete mindless ogres, but neither are they saints and genericly entirely human-like. They are cold, solemn and mysterious for a reason. They are dangerous for a reason. They are still an unusual creature.

I would opt for something more chilling, more dark. A black stone-like city amongst the mountains, jagged yet sturdy, quiet and eerie, the harsh wind giving the impression of whispers in your ear. You see the place and your hair stands on end, like walking into Hades/Greek Underworld.

If not some sort of city, then perhaps a nomadic type lifestyle. Assumingly they are not immediately like humans (Less dependent on food, able to survive in severe cold, peculiar "magical" properties, less dependency to be in large groups, etc) then they could easily be accustomed to a quiet, isolated type of life, "hybernating" during warmer months. Not saying they are primitive at all, they obviously have intelligence, just that they might not require the rustle and bustle of the city, nor require a regular civilization type atmosphere, but just cooly and silently amongst the forest or tundra, in smaller groups or solo. Like ghosts and spirits. Coming together only for battle or for blood.

dark or not there has to be some kind of civilisation/unity among them no?

what else would they achieve by conquering westeros?

i bilieve there is a hidden dwelling and benjen i a captive there.

[Lion of Judah]

I imagine that this city would look a lot like Jotunheim, we know that the others use weapons made of ice much like the frost giants.

[StuSeaworth]

No. No way something mediaval can find the resources to build and maintain a city of considerable proportions in the tundra, let alone the arctic deserts of snow and ice.

That said, GRRM might do an ass-pull and make such a city exist.

We already know the others interact with the physical world in a different way than the other species. They are unaffected by the cold (As far as we can tell, they like it, and no warm clothing was observed), they can be killed by obsidian but not steel. Who knows, maybe they can build up north in ways men wouldn't understand. Them having a city, or other sorts of infrastructure would definitely not ruin the series for me.

[Runaway Penguin]

We don't know they can be killed only in obsidian. In the cases of "steel vs. Other", the Steel did not connect, so we don't know what happens. Old stories talk about "dragonsteel" being effective, but if that means Valyrian steel, it is lighter, tougher... But otherwise not magical per se. Maybe it is only that it does not shatter if subject to extreme low temperature.

If Others were invulnerable by steel, they won't need wights. I guess there is a reason why they use them and don't go all "unstoppable killing machines" by themselves.

Anyway unless they are really "demons" condensing from cold air, they probably have some central dwelling.

[kephv]

Well they have to live somewhere. And considering their capability to shape ice -- and that they seem to be masters of magic -- I wouldn't doubt if they can make some pretty badass structures in the very heart of winter.

[StuSeaworth]

We don't know they can be killed only in obsidian. In the cases of "steel vs. Other", the Steel did not connect, so we don't know what happens. Old stories talk about "dragonsteel" being effective, but if that means Valyrian steel, it is lighter, tougher... But otherwise not magical per se. Maybe it is only that it does not shatter if subject to extreme low temperature.

If Others were invulnerable by steel, they won't need wights. I guess there is a reason why they use them and don't go all "unstoppable killing machines" by themselves.

Anyway unless they are really "demons" condensing from cold air, they probably have some central dwelling.

True we don't know steel vs their flesh and it's effect. The other's sword shattered the steel blade in that epilogue though. Even if it can cut them, it's not going to be effective in battle if one sword vs sword parry shatters the steel blade.

[Runaway Penguin]

That's the point. The steel may have shattered just because it goes brittle in extreme cold (after all, it did not shatter at the first clash of swords). Valyrian steel (dragonsteel) and Obsidian (Dragonglass) may withstand such... And may be a surprise to Other swordsmen who are used to steel shattering.

Plus (heh) noone can parry an arrow ;)

[King.In.Yellow]

I guess it's possible. I don't think the lack of a city way up there is anything curious, though. We don't have a metropolis at the North Pole, either. ;) It's not so much a matter of size (look how huge Siberia is, but how thinly populated), but about living conditions and the climate.

The Others do have a metropolis in the north pole, where they serve their red demon king, Santa Claus.

[Lads]

On the city in the north.

Anyone ever played World of Warcraft ? :D

There is a Undead-Overlord called Lichking and he is in the faaar north almost alone with some fucking big castle.

He controls the Undead with mindcontrol maybe grrm does something similar.

MAYBE the NK was never dead and just feld north to recover...and now he has woken up :o

sry if thats too crazy :P

edit: just wsaw how old this post is... :(

[Morienthar]

I don't think the Others have a city perse maybe a other producing storm or something similar is something that I imagine to be the Heart of Winter.

[Brynden Bloodraven Rivers]

How many Others do you think there are?

[tydides]

Why would there be a city? We still don't really know about the lifestyle of the Others. Would it be in their best interest to band together and form a city? I don't think so. What do Others live on? What food do they eat? They can't farm so far north, and it isn't very hospitable, so I think it is very unlikely for there realistically being a city, unless magic is utilized by either them or the children of the forest.

[Morienthar]

How many Others do you think there are?

We've seen like 12 and one of them was brutally murdered.