possible reason why The Hound feels protective of Sansa

[Kittykatknits]

That's what he says, but I think he was trying to put on the "badass" personna to provoke/scare/anger Sansa. This is something he does quite a lot with Arya, saying all the time "I'm the bad guy, I did that, and that, and that, see how bad I am ?"

The only time we see him kill which is neither in battle, or people (supposedly) deserving it... is when he gives the gift of mercy. I particularly love that scene, because he is described as killing the guy "almost tenderly". Sandor in the inside is a big teddybear :)

I like to think Jaime would have protected her from the KG's exactions. He seems really pissed off when he learns that Joff has been using them to beat a helpless maid.

I agree about Jaime.

As for Sandor, we saw him kill Mycah as well as that soldier. But, even though, for the most part, we don't see all his kills, I really think he was telling the truth. His reputation did not come from nowhere. He has the reputation as being a brutal butcher. I think he was telling her the brutal truth about all the people he was killing. He has no problem killing at all. With Arya, it was different. Those were threats about her personally which he does not move forward on. That was a very different situation.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

I agree about Jaime.

As for Sandor, we saw him kill Mycah as well as that soldier. But, even though, for the most part, we don't see all his kills, I really think he was telling the truth. His reputation did not come from nowhere. He has the reputation as being a brutal butcher. I think he was telling her the brutal truth about all the people he was killing. He has no problem killing at all. With Arya, it was different. Those were threats about her personally which he does not move forward on. That was a very different situation.

Sandor, like Tyrion acts like a monster because he looks like one and so the superficial people of Westeros treat him like one.

Mycah assaulted a prince of the blood, as far as Sandor knows. What solider?

[Kittykatknits]

Sandor, like Tyrion acts like a monster because he looks like one and so the superficial people of Westeros treat him like one.

Mycah assaulted a prince of the blood, as far as Sandor knows. What solider?

I agree about the monster part. They expected a monster because of his looks so he gave it to them. Well stated.

The soldier is when he is wandering with Arya, right after the Red Wedding. I think it was an archer, one of Piper's men. He's wounded and Sandor gives the man water before killing him. The way it is described, Sandor does it very gently and respectfully.

[voodooqueen126]

I think another good question is - Why doesn't anyone else feel protective towards Sansa? The only one with some empathy towards her is the fiercest badass around. What's wrong with everyone else?

I can understand why Sandor's such a bastard. His early years he spent terrorised by a psychopath. He was horribly burned at an early age and somehow survived. I assume his rasping voice was caused by hot air and embers being drawn into his throat as he screamed for help. I believe that burned skin doesn't grow like normal skin so as he grew over the next 12(?) his scars were probably breaking and healing constantly. The pain he lived through! Even a saint would be mean. At 12 he joins the army and we all now how nice teenage boys and men in an all-male environment can be. Lucky he grew big and strong and could protect himself eventually. (Just imagine what he would have been like if he came from a loving family environment - possibly even Sansa's ideal knight!)

So what about everyone else? Are they all just scared? Tyrion certainly speaks up and I wonder if Jaime would have? Jaime regrets not doing anything to help Aerys wife when he was hurting her so I wonder if he had been in KL whether Sansa's life would have been easier?

(and off-topic but at some stage I want someone to call him a hound and he replies "Don't call me Hound. Now, I'm a Wolf")

I would say by the age of 6 our personality is mostly formed. So people saying that Sandor behaves badly because of his burned face are being silly, since the critical period in attachment formation is actually the first 6 months of life, remember that Sandor was burnt at the age 6 years. Since Sandor wants to form relationships (albeit only with Sansa, Arya and Elder Brother), though he does not have much luck (since he has very poor social skills), I would say that his first 6 months of life were probably quite good.

This doesn't mean that Sandor is a good person, it just means that his aberrant personality can be treated. Sandor frequently behaves badly (the whole killing women and children speech indicates this), I would say that Sandor having lost his family, save his sociopathic brother (and I think it is possible that dysfunctional parents often treat one child differently from the other, hence the different outcomes), formed an inappropriate attachment to the Lannisters.

Reading that link (about the attempts to rehabilitate the Harry Harlow monkeys), I would say that Sansa acted a bit like one of those monkey therapists, yet she was not able to fully devote herself to this task, since she was a prisoner of the Lannisters and couldn't really spend her days clutching the Hound, nor was she sufficiently desperate to be motivated to such behaviour.

[voodooqueen126]

I think another good question is - Why doesn't anyone else feel protective towards Sansa? The only one with some empathy towards her is the fiercest badass around. What's wrong with everyone else?

I can understand why Sandor's such a bastard. His early years he spent terrorised by a psychopath. He was horribly burned at an early age and somehow survived. I assume his rasping voice was caused by hot air and embers being drawn into his throat as he screamed for help. I believe that burned skin doesn't grow like normal skin so as he grew over the next 12(?) his scars were probably breaking and healing constantly. The pain he lived through! Even a saint would be mean. At 12 he joins the army and we all now how nice teenage boys and men in an all-male environment can be. Lucky he grew big and strong and could protect himself eventually. (Just imagine what he would have been like if he came from a loving family environment - possibly even Sansa's ideal knight!)

So what about everyone else? Are they all just scared? Tyrion certainly speaks up and I wonder if Jaime would have? Jaime regrets not doing anything to help Aerys wife when he was hurting her so I wonder if he had been in KL whether Sansa's life would have been easier?

(and off-topic but at some stage I want someone to call him a hound and he replies "Don't call me Hound. Now, I'm a Wolf")

I would say by the age of 6 our personality is mostly formed. So people saying that Sandor behaves badly because of his burned face are being silly, since the critical period in attachment formation is actually the first 6 months of life, remember that Sandor was burnt at the age 6 years. Since Sandor wants to form relationships (albeit only with Sansa, Arya and Elder Brother), though he does not have much luck (since he has very poor social skills), I would say that his first 6 months of life were okay.

This doesn't mean that Sandor is a good person, it just means that his aberrant personality can be treated. Sandor frequently behaves badly (the whole killing women and children speech indicates this), I would say that Sandor having lost his family, save his sociopathic brother (and I think it is possible that dysfunctional parents often treat one child differently from the other, hence the different outcomes), formed an inappropriate attachment to the Lannisters.

[Budj]

I don't know if this has been touched on, but I was thinking about it over the weekend.

Both Arya and Sansa lost their wolves...one to death and one is just missing (well, to Arya, not us) and when both of them needed their MIA "wolves" they had a "dog/hound" named Sandor. haha. I can't help but wonder if Sandor ends up being more intertwined with the Starks later in the story if he is in fact the grave digger.

And I give Sandor a pass for most of his actions. A lot of it was following orders - I doubt it would have ended well for him had he refused to kill Mycah.

[Kittykatknits]

I would say by the age of 6 our personality is mostly formed. So people saying that Sandor behaves badly because of his burned face are being silly, since the critical period in attachment formation is actually the first 6 months of life, remember that Sandor was burnt at the age 6 years. Since Sandor wants to form relationships (albeit only with Sansa, Arya and Elder Brother), though he does not have much luck (since he has very poor social skills), I would say that his first 6 months of life were probably quite good.

This doesn't mean that Sandor is a good person, it just means that his aberrant personality can be treated. Sandor frequently behaves badly (the whole killing women and children speech indicates this), I would say that Sandor having lost his family, save his sociopathic brother (and I think it is possible that dysfunctional parents often treat one child differently from the other, hence the different outcomes), formed an inappropriate attachment to the Lannisters.

Reading that link (about the attempts to rehabilitate the Harry Harlow monkeys), I would say that Sansa acted a bit like one of those monkey therapists, yet she was not able to fully devote herself to this task, since she was a prisoner of the Lannisters and couldn't really spend her days clutching the Hound, nor was she sufficiently desperate to be motivated to such behaviour.

I've only seen attachment theory discussed in parenting books and forums. But, it's a topic I'm quite interested in. He has the desire to form relationships due to a healthy attachment early in life. The burns led to poor social skills and subsequent inappropriate attachment to the Lannisters. I really like thinking about it in those terms.

I don't know if this has been touched on, but I was thinking about it over the weekend.

Both Arya and Sansa lost their wolves...one to death and one is just missing (well, to Arya, not us) and when both of them needed their MIA "wolves" they had a "dog/hound" named Sandor. haha. I can't help but wonder if Sandor ends up being more intertwined with the Starks later in the story if he is in fact the grave digger.

Many people think that Sandor is Sansa's replacement for Lady. There are many hints that seem to suggest that.

Arya's wolf is still alive, she is even having wolf dreams. She also hardly even thinks of him once they part ways. I think their time together is likely done. Sandor and Sansa though, they still have unfinished business.

[Sand11751]

Sandor's my favorite character because he's so complex; a lot of meaning behind even his most brutal statements to Sansa. I think he sees in her the naive child he might have been until his brother melted half his face off. He wants Sansa to deal with the reality of life in KL and realize the knights, flowers and songs hide the bitter truth about life at court. For now, I'm trying hard to pretend his sexual attraction to her doesn't play into why he's always around. Yes, I know it would be normal in Westeros, but I still see her as a fragile child playing with her snow castles. I also believe he is tolerant of Arya later because he feels some guilt about cruelty to Sansa. Can't see any other reason he doesn't abandon Arya after the RW.

[Queen of Spades]

As for Sandor, we saw him kill Mycah as well as that soldier. But, even though, for the most part, we don't see all his kills, I really think he was telling the truth. His reputation did not come from nowhere. He has the reputation as being a brutal butcher. I think he was telling her the brutal truth about all the people he was killing. He has no problem killing at all. With Arya, it was different. Those were threats about her personally which he does not move forward on. That was a very different situation.

He has a reputation of being a fearsome warrior. Because he is. Brutal, yes, and a butcher on the battle field. The "it gives me joy to kill people" thing is something readers only get from his speech to Sansa. We have no evidence anywhere in the books that he did any killing without battle/orders/mercy to justify it. Jaime is shocked where he hears of the Saltpans massacre because he did not think Sandor was capable of this.

I don't say he has any problems with killing people, I say that he doesn't do it without justification. And I don't think he particularly likes killing. He likes being able to kill, not killing itself.

Hells, he was shocked of Ser Hugh's death, and thought it was a bloody and unnecessary mess ! Because Gregor killed the guy just because he could, even if there was no reason to kill the boy.

Even in the inn with Polliver and the Tickler, he says "I was hoping you'd do something stupid" (i.e. attacking him) so he wanted to fight but still waited for them to make the first move.

[Viking]

Sandor is a complex dude.

no, he is not, Sandor logic goes as follows

If Gregor = A

Then Sandor /= A

Else If Gregor /= A

Then Sandor = A

It's not complicated at all.

[Queen of Spades]

no, he is not, Sandor logic goes as follows

If Gregor = A

Then Sandor /= A

Else If Gregor /= A

Then Sandor = A

It's not complicated at all.

If A = "good swordsman"

Then

Gregor = A

Sandor = A

Not that simple ;)

[voodooqueen126]

I've only seen attachment theory discussed in parenting books and forums. But, it's a topic I'm quite interested in. He has the desire to form relationships due to a healthy attachment early in life. The burns led to poor social skills and subsequent inappropriate attachment to the Lannisters. I really like thinking about it in those terms. Many people think that Sandor is Sansa's replacement for Lady. There are many hints that seem to suggest that. Arya's wolf is still alive, she is even having wolf dreams. She also hardly even thinks of him once they part ways. I think their time together is likely done. Sandor and Sansa though, they still have unfinished business.

Isn't attachment theory often discussed in conjunction with gang violence? that people join gangs because they have attached themselves to these people because they are not getting that affection at home.

[Kittykatknits]

Isn't attachment theory often discussed in conjunction with gang violence? that people join gangs because they have attached themselves to these people because they are not getting that affection at home.

It is discussed in relation to gang violence. But, attachment theory is also the basis for a parenting approach called Attachment Parenting which was first started by Dr. Sears. There are eight basic principles behind AP that encourage strong bonds between the parent(s) and child. The idea is that by meeting all the child's needs when young that a strong and healthy attachment between child and caregivers is fostered. Thus, leading to an adult who is secure, empathatic, emotionally healthy, etc. in the future. I'm not a strict AP person but there are parts of it that have been a huge help to me as a mother.

You can read more about it here: http://www.attachmentparenting.org/

[Kittykatknits]

He has a reputation of being a fearsome warrior. Because he is. Brutal, yes, and a butcher on the battle field. The "it gives me joy to kill people" thing is something readers only get from his speech to Sansa. We have no evidence anywhere in the books that he did any killing without battle/orders/mercy to justify it. Jaime is shocked where he hears of the Saltpans massacre because he did not think Sandor was capable of this. I don't say he has any problems with killing people, I say that he doesn't do it without justification. And I don't think he particularly likes killing. He likes being able to kill, not killing itself. Hells, he was shocked of Ser Hugh's death, and thought it was a bloody and unnecessary mess ! Because Gregor killed the guy just because he could, even if there was no reason to kill the boy. Even in the inn with Polliver and the Tickler, he says "I was hoping you'd do something stupid" (i.e. attacking him) so he wanted to fight but still waited for them to make the first move.

I don't think Sandor takes pride in killing the same way that his brother or Ramsey do but he knows it is what he is good at. When he offers to take Sansa away, it is his skills as a warrior that he is offering. It's not Lannister gold or LF game playing skills. I think he takes pride in his martial skills and take a joy out of practicing them, just as a craftsman would take a pleasure at practiving his crafts. Sansa reflects back on the mob and his rescue and states his face was transformed. I think he felt alive while killing in that moment. Hes a depressed and bitter man but when he is in that situation, he is in his element doing what he is good at. I think that is what he is referring too when he says it gives him joy. I do agree that it is not the same way that his brother takes joy in killing.

[voodooqueen126]

It is discussed in relation to gang violence. But, attachment theory is also the basis for a parenting approach called Attachment Parenting which was first started by Dr. Sears. There are eight basic principles behind AP that encourage strong bonds between the parent(s) and child. The idea is that by meeting all the child's needs when young that a strong and healthy attachment between child and caregivers is fostered. Thus, leading to an adult who is secure, empathatic, emotionally healthy, etc. in the future. I'm not a strict AP person but there are parts of it that have been a huge help to me as a mother. You can read more about it here: http://www.attachmentparenting.org/

Oh yes, I heard about in relation to parenting first: I started off reading about Harry Harlow, then came across attachment parenting.

[Night Gathers]

Not sure if someone has posted this yet, but here's a clip with Rory Mccann (the hound) when he talks about the scene when he saves Sansa from the mob.

[Lion of Judah]

In an odd way I think the Hound relates to Sansa, he was bullied by his brother much like Sansa is being bullied by Joffrey. In his own way he is trying to eradicate the idea of the knights in the songs and stories that Sansa has and help her see that she is in a very dangerous place surrounded by very dangerous people.

[Little Red Riding Hood]

Sure he growls and bares his fangs but even in her bedroom that night...he couldn't bring himself to bite. His actions spoke far more loudly than his harsh words did. He always touched her gently. He picked her up from her bed....gently. Caught her on the steps...gently. Dabbed blood from her lip...gently. GRRM pointed out each time that his touch was....gentle.

Beautiful, Christina.

[Little Red Riding Hood]

Because he is in love like a dog?

[Alice in Westeros]

Sandor is a complex dude.

Too true.