[Book Spoilers] Jaime Lannister

[Jayaris]

This has been discussed to death, there are five other threads in this sub-forum where people raise the exact same concerns.

"He gains nothing from killing Alton"

That's not true, if Alton is alive he's either slowing him down or escaping on his own and risks notifying the camp of the escape attempt early.

I don't see how anyone could argue that leaving Alton alive is a superior escape plan to killing him.

And that's if you assume that 'playing dead' is a guaranteed success, if the Guard doesn't find Alton's acting credible or can see him breathing or his chest rising/falling he can tell he's alive from a distance.

His odds of escaping are greater if he kills Alton and as you mention his chance of escape in the first place is ridiculously low, so he needs all the help he can get.

[imladolen]

Oh well, there goes Jaimes entire redemption arc down the drain.

I'd say that is BS. His redemption arc is only going to be stronger after this. Only a guilty man can have a redemption story.

[imladolen]

I really have a hard time seeing where people are so convinced that Jaime is a complete sociopath. I mean, I believed it too until I read book three and four, and when I went back to reread book one, I figured I'd go back to hating him again. But I didn't, because I could see the subtle hints of his redeemable qualities. For example, Tyrion remarks of him being the only one of his relatives to ever be kind to him. While Cersei and Tywin were making Tyrion's life miserable, Jaime was an actual brother to him, and looked out for him. And when Jaime pushed Bran out of the window, the line is, "'The things I do for love,' he said with loathing." It isn't, "'Hey Cersei, check this out!' he said, smirking." Everything about that line implies that he didn't want to do what he was about to do, but he felt like he had to for the sake of those he cares about, mostly his sister/lover. I'm not saying that it was an all right deed because he didn't want to do it. Of course it was still wrong. I'm just saying, he doesn't go around killing anyone he feels like and thinks it's perfectly all right. All of Jaime's awful acts have been for the sake of others. Bran was for his sister, Aerys was for all of King's Landing, and Jory and company was because he thought Ned was responsible for his brother's capture. Once again, I'm not saying I agree with these decisions (except for Aerys. I consider Jaime a hero for that one), but he had very distinct motives for each, and each demonstrated just how much Jaime will do ANYTHING for someone he cares about. "The things I do for love," really sums him up more than any other line.

:agree:

And that's why I don't buy in to him killing Ser Alton. Alton was on his side, he wasn't in Jaime's way or a threat to someone Jaime cares about. I can't see him killing someone like that, so pointlessly.

I do not agree with this though. Alton wanted to be part of something (think about the whole conversation the two just had), and would do anything to help Jaime (one of the most important people on his side of the war) escape. This is war, and in war, people die, sacrifices are made. Jaime had no familial love for Alton (he hardly even knew who the kid was), and in Jaime's opinion (as well as the opinion of all the Lannisters and other loyalists to Joffrey's reign) the Kingslayer is more important than some randomly minor Lannister scion.

Alton faking being dead wouldn't have worked. It was the sounds of the attack, the site of the shuddering Alton (who definitely did not come across as smart enough to fake that) laying there, and all the blood on his face that put the Karstark idiot boy into surprise and shock, long enough for him to not be paying attention to Jaime.

Personally, I think the complaints about this scene stem simply from the fact that people CAN complain (nerdrage, groupthink, all the typical BS that riles geeks up). I do not think any of the arguments I've read against this scene hold any weight.