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Are Sansa and Arriane the only PoV's who haven't killed someone?


Bastard Walder

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Lords cannot do whatever they like to their people.

Look what happened to Mormont for selling poachers on his land into slavery.

Doesn't that depend on the Lord though? Tywin didn't seem overly bothered by what a monster Gregor Clegane was.

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Doesn't that depend on the Lord though? Tywin didn't seem overly bothered by what a monster Gregor Clegane was.

Of course it depends on whether or not the overlord enforces the law it or not, but Mormont's case proves lords don't have last say on what they do with their people, they are subject to a higher review (ie, their overlords, the Wardens, the King).

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Looking at the infamous "Sansa should have pushed Joffrey" quote again:

The outer parapet came up to her chin, but along the inner edge of the walk was nothing, nothing but a long plunge to the bailey seventy or eighty feet below. All it would take was a shove, she told herself. He was standing right there, rightthere, smirking at her with those fat wormlips. You could do it, she told herself. You could. Do it right now . It wouldn't even matter if she went over with him. It wouldn't matter at all.

"Here, girl. " Sandor Clegane knelt before her, between her and Joffrey. With a delicacy surprising in such a big man, he dabbed at the blood welling from her broken lip.

So obviously, we see Sansa deciding to sacrifice herself and off Joffrey. As soon as she thinks "Do it right now", she clearly isn't hiding her feelings enough and the Hound sees her murderface, so steps inbetween her and Joffrey. To claim despite this that Sansa squandered the moment is just wrong, she had just decided what to do, and he stopped her. I am not sure how this could be described any more clearly, apart from actually writing "And then Sansa was going to push Joffrey off the battlements to his death, but just as she was about to, the Hound stepped in between them".

I will give you that asking or having Sansa sacrifice herself merely to kill Joffrey would've been far-fetched, especially because it doesn't fit the Sansa that we had known up to that point. There's obviously different ways of interpreting that passage. To me it reads as if a moment, regardless of how short, had presented itself for her to have been able to push Joffrey down to the bailey. She allowed it to pass, which again , can't be held against her, as I'm sure most of us would not have acted in such a short amount of time.

You're starting at an arbitrary point in the timeline to make Sansa look like the culprit. Not to mention there's no casuation between Sansa and Ned losing his head, or with Bran and Rickon being "killed", or Robb breaking his marriage vows to Walder Frey.

In fact, Ned's MORE likely to lose his head without Sansa in King's Landing.

Varys only manages to convince Ned to confess to treason and take the Black because he mentions the Lannisters have Arya and Sansa, and might punish them for his intransigence. If Sansa and Arya are on a boat to White Harbour, Ned's more likely to tell the Lannisters to piss off.

There were a lot of reasons for Ned losing his head. I agree with Gaius Martell and feel that with the girls safely on their way to Wintefell, then Ned becomes the only Stark that can be used to get back Jaime and/or put the North in a position where they have to also be careful about what they do as it can cause Ned to be killed. I think that forces Cersei and the Small Council to be extra careful with their behavior regarding Ned. As you mentioned youself, without Sansa in King's Landing there is almost zero chance that they can get Ned to confess to treason. Meaning no confession, no public spectacle and no beheading. Without Sansa in KL, the Lannisters would be forced to give Ned a trial. But Sansa disclosing their impending departure puts Ned in a position where he has to confess and thus be brought before the public and ultimately Joffrey having him beheaded.

That's highly debatable, in fact I think it's unlikely. Check the timeline. The ship was supposed to leave in the evening. Robert was already dead at dawn. Why would Cersei and LF wait a whole day before striking against Ned? Acting as quickly as possible is paramount in such cases. Don't forget LF had a big interest in Sansa.

I believe Ned had worked out the logistics to get the girls out of King's Landing. Remember, Ned was making all the necessary preparations for possible war with the Lannisters. And that included getting the girls out of there. Cersei had no knowledge of Ned's plans.

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  • 1 month later...

Since Others & Wights are practically dead they must not count.

Be warged into an animal or Hodor and kill in animal's or Hodor's body must not count.

Someone must kill with his/her own hands in order to count.

so Bran, Cersei, Sam, Arianne and Sansa hadn't kill anyone.

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Since Others & Wights are practically dead they must not count.

Be warged into an animal or Hodor and kill in animal's or Hodor's body must not count.

Someone must kill with his/her own hands in order to count.

so Bran, Cersei, Sam, Arianne and Sansa hadn't kill anyone.

I don't know about this. Arrianne and Sansa have not killed people directly, but their actions have indirectly led to the deaths of people and this is something that weighs on their consciences. Sam has not killed anyone either as far as we know. He did shoot an arrow or two at an Ironborn longship that could have killed someone. Sam, as a member of the Nights Watch, would have to fight if ordered to, but thatr does not seem to be his role. It would be hard for Bran to kill somebody with his own hands but depending on how his arc goes, he could, as the Lord of WInterfell, be responsible for many deaths.

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Since Others & Wights are practically dead they must not count.

GRRM - "The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous."

So they are alive. Minus one taken by Sam the Slayer.

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GRRM - "The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous."

So they are alive. Minus one taken by Sam the Slayer.

The one Sam *killed* Small Paul was a wight. To become a wight someone must to die first. So Small Paul is dead so Sam isn't a killer.

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The one Sam *killed* Small Paul was a wight. To become a wight someone must to die first. So Small Paul is dead so Sam isn't a killer.

Oy, Sam has also killed an Other with dragonglass:

The weight of him tore the strange pale sword from the Other’s grip.

Do it now. Stop crying and fight, you baby. Fight, craven . It was his father he heard, it was Alliser Thorne, it was his brother Dickon and the boy Rast. Craven, craven, craven. He giggled hysterically, wondering if they would make a wight of him, a huge fat white wight always tripping over its own dead feet. Do it, Sam . Was that Jon, now? Jon was dead. You can do it, you can, just do it . And then he was stumbling forward, falling more than running, really, closing his eyes and shoving the dagger blindly out before him with both hands. He heard a crack, like the sound ice makes when it breaks beneath a man’s foot, and then a screech so shrill and sharp that he went staggering backward with his hands over his muffled ears, and fell hard on his arse.

When he opened his eyes the Other’s armor was running down its legs in rivulets as pale blue blood hissed and steamed around the black dragonglass dagger in its throat. It reached down with two bone-white hands to pull out the knife, but where its fingers touched the obsidian they smoked.

Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger emained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating. Grenn bent to scoop it up and flung it down again at once. “Mother, that’s cold.”

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