Why does Littlefinger catch flak for his affections for Sansa but Khal drogo and others involved with younger women in Westeros/Essos get a pass?

[Ghiscari]

He is a nasty piece of work for sure. The reason he's compared to paedophiles is because he uses classic "grooming" techniques on Sansa and she is clearly uncomfortable when he requests her to sit in his lap or to kiss her. He's simultaneously attempting to be her father, and also to prepare her for a sexual relationship. It's gross and exploitative. Drogo and Dany do not have an ideal relationship and many posters have critiqued it, but in terms of just sheer perversity, I give LF the edge over most men in ASOIAF.

That really sums it up. When he said, for instance, to give daddy a kiss, it just mad my skin crawl. I do agree that there are other problematic relationships in Westeros and no one should get a "pass"... but he takes the creep cake.

[Winter's Knight]

Is she fourteen when pedofinger asks Cersei for her? Was it right after Ned was executed?

I was talking about Dany/Jorah.

Well she likes older men who dominate her. Look what she did to poor Quentyn.

Seven forbid a young man be snubbed by a queen because he turned up as a suitor on the eve of her wedding.

Or are you referring to the bit where she warged him and forced him to steal a dragon?

[Kittykatknits]

Is she fourteen when pedofinger asks Cersei for her? Was it right after Ned was executed?

Oh damn, am I the last person to realize this is why pedofinger has Joffrey murdered, to get back at Cersei for saying no?

Yes, it was right after the execution, she was 12 at the time.I think he pushed Joffrey to kill Ned personally. And that's a great point about Joffrey being killed. I think another element is that he's throwing the realm in to chaos and Joffrey's death helped achieve that goal. He later says that he didn't think Cersei would self-destruct as quickly as she did.

[total1402]

Jorah was in his 40s and declared himself to Dany when she was 14 but showed signs of his attraction earlier.

As for the snow building scene, in what light could it be seen as ok? He forced her to kiss him and is showing classic grooming behavior. I am not seeing an evidence of genuinely caring for her, Sansa notes that he never tried to help her in KL, he helped engineer her marriage to Tyrion, is manipulating her, keeping her isolated, and continues to force himself on her.

In the sense that he fought a duel for Cat when he was younger. He could have any woman he wanted and probably does want revenge. Yes he wants her as a trophy but that doesn't mean his motives aren't a perversion of genuine desire. Obviously love that is not two ways is bad; I;am not trying to condone what he is doing.

Dany was like ten when she put a mans finger inside of her. Age is only an issue for Dany in the sense that Jorah was too plain for her and didn't make her laugh. I assumed she was older at that point. Martin doesn't present his characters as behaving like I would expect characters that age to behave.

[total1402]

Seven forbid a young man be snubbed by a queen because he turned up as a suitor on the eve of her wedding.

Or are you referring to the bit where she warged him and forced him to steal a dragon?

I edited that message.

Dany thinks him plain shy and the implication is she wants men who are stronger, more assertive, and older than her. Which means she wants men who will dominate her. She looks upon the idea of being with a bloke her age as odd and views Quentyn as weak for lacking the traits I mentioned above.

[StannisBamfatheon]

Who gives Khal Drogo a pass? I thought he was one of the designated rapists of the story.

IMO, the reason LF gets so much flak for perving on Sansa is:

1) it's happening to Sansa, who has a large following, while fewer, and I'd say on this board, a lot fewer, people care about Dany's well-being;

2) at the relevant time period, not much else is happening to Sansa (please, it's not like Sansa's eating raw horse hearts, riding with a barbarian horde, personally executing an assassin or birthing dragons);

3) there's the whole "Sansa looks like her Mommy who was the girl I didn't get but I'll get her by proxy now" thing which adds another layer of creepy;

4) Sansa is the story's designated virgin (she doesn't have plot armor, she has a plot chastity belt) while Dany is one of the story's, and some of the readers', designated sluts. It's that Daario thing. (Sorry for using the S word but in this context it is particularly apt.)

In addition, some of the other characters who prey on young girls are thoroughly hated for other reasons so the pedophile hate is just part of the whole. Ramsay, for instance, and Walder Frey.

My bad I just hadn't seen any topics relating to Drogo/Dany and just how....well a little bothersome there situation was. It was one of only a handful of things in ASOIAF that I just really couldn't justify in my modern 21st century mind. I agree though with the overriding sentiment that Littlefinger's attraction to Sansa's (un)dead mother coupled with his newfound attraction for her makes the whole situation very icky. Somethings in the story I can't sequester as "oh well it's only GRRM" and I have to think their pretty odd. Fictional work shouldn't be seen as biographical allegory or anything but I do ponder just how much of weird guy GRRM can be to create some of this material.

[Winter's Knight]

Dany was like ten when she put a mans finger inside of her. Age is only an issue for Dany in the sense that Jorah was too plain for her and didn't make her laugh. I assumed she was older at that point. Martin doesn't present his characters as behaving like I would expect characters that age to behave.

So you thought she was ten when Drogo raped her and eighteen when Jorah declared his love only two books later? :ack:

[the Scorpion Knight]

Is she fourteen when pedofinger asks Cersei for her? Was it right after Ned was executed?

Oh damn, am I the last person to realize this is why pedofinger has Joffrey murdered, to get back at Cersei for saying no?

she was 12/13 when LF asked cersei for sansa' hand

this also was his vengence to tyrion for the myrcella ploy

brandon should have done the world a favor and kill this creep

[total1402]

So you thought she was ten when Drogo raped her and eighteen when Jorah declared his love only two books later? :ack:

Me confused. Yeah shes meant to be very young and in the books its not presented as a rape. In the HBO show it clearly is and she looks a lot older. Yes I got the age wrong shoot me. But Dany does have these preferences concerning men.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Another thing -- Drogo had the courtesy to die in the first book, and he died by Dany's hand. So he was karmically punished for marrying a 13-year-old, a very satisfying end imo.

[brashcandy]

she was 12/13 when LF asked cersei for sansa' hand

this also was his vengence to tyrion for the myrcella ploy

brandon should have done the world a favor and kill this creep

Not 12/13, more 11/12. She's still 12 when she's married to Tyrion and 13 as of AFFC. Littlefinger also makes her feel like she has no clothes on when she comes to meet with the Council before Ned's death.. so yeah.... I would have a teeny wee bit more respect for LF if he would declare his intentions to Sansa and stop playing the daddy mind games. But that's unlikely to happen anytime soon.

[hockema56]

No, the bit with Khal Drogo and Dany never sat well with me and I think HBO made the right decision in not making Dany willing during that scene.

Jorah...I like to think that Jorah only becomes interested in Dany once she matures and starts to increasingly resemble his old wife and become more of a woman. I can live with a forty year old being with an 18 year old. So hes not interested in her because she is a child and is noticably more attracted to her the older she gets.

Baelish, its weird because of the past relation with his mother. But again once they mature it becomes less of an issue. Though Baelish is clearly grooming young Sansa. Him trying to snog Sansa after a sweet building a snow castle was creepy; though seen a different light it could be seen okay since I do think he genuinely cares. Although it is twisted that he obsessed about the mother so much that he wants the daughter.

Does Dany reach the age of 18 by book 5? I'm still imagining here as a 15-16 year old girl...

[hockema56]

I edited that message.

Dany thinks him plain shy and the implication is she wants men who are stronger, more assertive, and older than her. Which means she wants men who will dominate her. She looks upon the idea of being with a bloke her age as odd and views Quentyn as weak for lacking the traits I mentioned above.

This is what every woman wants (especially when they're younger), not just Dany ;)

[total1402]

Does Dany reach the age of 18 by book 5? I'm still imagining here as a 15-16 year old girl...

You could be right. Doesn't that make Quentyn older than her? Isn't he meant to be like 18? What is that womans fething problem?!

TBH I can't tell what age they all are. Some of the older characters act like teenagers and the younger act IMO far more mature than what there actual age is.

[Reznak mo Reznak]

As for the snow building scene, in what light could it be seen as ok? He forced her to kiss him and is showing classic grooming behavior. I am not seeing an evidence of genuinely caring for her, Sansa notes that he never tried to help her in KL, he helped engineer her marriage to Tyrion, is manipulating her, keeping her isolated, and continues to force himself on her.

His most overt act was when he kissed her. I'm not convinced he is fully making a play for her. I think he has all the creepy feelings that people described, but he is choosing to focus on the game more than her. I think when he kissed her, it was only because he knew Lysa was watching, and knew how she would react.

[total1402]

This is what every woman wants (especially when they're younger), not just Dany ;)

True. True. :lol:

And people wonder why women were second class citizens through most of history in virtually every culture. :read: :idea:

[Braavosi Sealady]

Does Dany reach the age of 18 by book 5? I'm still imagining here as a 15-16 year old girl...

In book 5 (ADwD) Dany is around 15/16...

[David C. Hunter]

I never understood why people called Littlefinger a perv when it is common for teenagers to marry older men

[StannisBamfatheon]

btw: the snow castle scene was shaping up to be a real tear jerker before Littlefinger swooped in and tried to play some tonsil hockey with her. That was a good 15 creep points to Littlefinger.

[Swordsaint]

Today's laws are only in place to stop old men from hanging out at high schools. Men have always loved young women, and always will. Petyr's obsession with Cat following a generation is what makes his lust creepy.

Want proof? Ask 50 straight men over age 35 if they had to live someone else's life who they'd pick. I bet you'd get over 25 Hugh Hefner's every time.